The Hotel End
April 18, 2024, 17:51:25 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Downloads Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register Chat  

Accounts are out

Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Accounts are out  (Read 3172 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
GrangeParkCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 9457


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Windows User Level 6
« on: March 31, 2020, 12:15:13 pm »

The Chairman declares himself pleased that the club only made a loss of £1.67m in the year ending to June 2019.

The loss was less than the previous years £2.2m.

The Company accounts balance sheet now shows a deficit of £7,152,480.  The vast majority of that is owed to the controlling companies, which are of course owned by common Directors, so they are covering the clubs losses by way of loans to the club, loans went up from £2.5m to £4.3m in the year.

Even the headline figure of £7.152m is kept lower by the fact the accounts list the East Stand under construction as an asset worth £2.4m. The true figure without this "asset" would be a staggering £9.5m in the red.

The Club and press spin is interesting, saying we have "reduced the overall losses".....which is technically true in as much as we lost less in 2019 than in 2018, but they seem to lose sight of the fact a loss is still a loss, and the two seasons combined have resulted in a loss of almost £4 million.

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/northampton-town-accounts-201819-released-chairman-thomas-pleased-progress-club-post-reduced-losses-2523540

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/00183917/filing-history
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 12:52:17 pm by GrangeParkCobbler » Report Spam   Logged

The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/07, 2007/08, 2011/12, 2012/13, 2018/19 and 2023/24

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14687



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2020, 12:55:35 pm »

How does our loss compare to other football clubs in the bottom two divisions?
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Avatar Search Combination
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2020, 14:20:41 pm »

There is of course insufficient information contained in the published financial statements to get to the real story of these losses. Staggering the club were still losing over £30k per week. We must have been paying way over the top for some mediocre talent.

In a season the gates held up well.

I honestly don't see how the figures would have been much better had we stayed in League One. No way were we anything other than a struggling side in that league with very little capacity for taking advantage of big gates when the likes of Sunderland visit.
Report Spam   Logged
GrangeParkCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 9457


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Windows User Level 6
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2020, 17:16:10 pm »

How does our loss compare to other football clubs in the bottom two divisions?

It is hard to tell the full story when you are looking at abridged accounts, accounts for small companies etc, most don't list turnover at all, just show profit and loss and balance sheets.

Bradford have current liabilities of £2.9m, up from £1.25m the year before, and their P&L figure has gone up from £2.3m to £4.1m suggesting a loss of around £1.8m in the year to June 2019.

Cambridge have not filed accounts for 2019 yet. Their loss in 2018 was £834,830 against a loss of £882,691 in 2017.

Carlisle United actually file full accounts, and for the year to June 19 they recorded an operating loss of £743,000 against a loss of £950,000 in 2018.

Cheltenham Town seem to have reduced their P&L deficit slightly from £2.25m in 2018 to £2.18m in 2019

Colchester United P&L account shows them to be a staggering £29.09m in the red, thats up from £26.7m in 2018, crudely suggesting a loss of £2.3m in the year.

Crawley Town have not yet filed accounts for 2019, but their 2018 accounts showed they made a profit of £7,671 for the year against a loss of £272,333 the previous season. Also interesting is that they list their turnover in the accounts, and even a small club like them recorded a turnover of £2.983m for the year.

Crewe Alex recorded a turnover of £3.196m for the year to 2019, thats down from just over £4m in 2018. They recorded a loss of £1.146m for the year.

Exeters balance sheet suggests a loss of around £600,000 for the year, however they still have a surplus on the sheet of £1.98m.

Forest Green Rovers recorded a loss for the season of £785,000 on turnover of £5.052m

Grimsby Towns turnover was only £3.574m for the year, although that was some 400k up on the previous year. Their accounts showed they made a profit of £150,000 for the year, this led to a reduction in their overall accumulated losses to £2.947m

Leyton Orient made a loss of £2.7m for the year, their underlying losses are up from £9.1m in 2018 to £11.8m in 2019.

Macclesfield have not filed any accounts for 2019! 2018 showed them some £4.2m in the red, owed to shareholders.

Mansfield file up to December each year, and as at December 2018 they were also around £3.86m in the red.

Morecambe are yet to file accounts for 2019, they recorded a loss of £451,923 in 2018, that followed up on a loss of £378,159 in 2017. Their turnover for 2018 was £2.8m

Newport County...unable to find any filings for this company.

Oldhams liabilities reduced from £9.3m to £3.7m in 2018 following a large write off to a director, they are yet to file accounts for 2019

Plymouth lost around £1.3m in 2018, their accounting year ended in December but they are switching to June from 2019 onwards.

Port Vales accounts seem to show a director loan to balance losses of just over £1m for the year to June 2019.

Salford City show a £3.3m hike in their profit and loss account for 2019, showing liabilities now of over £5.6m of which £5.4m is owed to group undertakings (directors)

Sc***horpe United lost £3.064m in the year to June 2019, this was lower than the £4.28m loss in 2018, and the 2019 figure is on a turnover of £3.7m for the year. They are a total of £11.3m in debt to their group undertakings. They file full accounts, and it is telling they they banked less than £1m in the year from ticket sales and gate receipts, their main income was from the League central distribution (solidarity and TV deal) which brought in £1.5m

Stevenage appear to have reduced their overall loss from £2.8m to £2.67m over the year, suggesting a small profit was made over the season.

Swindon Town recorded a loss of £1.7m for the year to 2019, their P&L deficit now stands at £12.93m

Walsall recorded a trading profit of £19,000 for the year to May 2019, this followed a profit of £9,000 for the previous year. Turnover for 2019 was £6.68m



« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 18:28:28 pm by GrangeParkCobbler » Report Spam   Logged

The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/07, 2007/08, 2011/12, 2012/13, 2018/19 and 2023/24
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14687



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2020, 17:53:50 pm »

Thanks GPC.
I'm nowhere near an expert, but looking at the figures and comments you have posted which is all I am commenting on;
It looks like the majority, if not all, have been able to reduce their losses from the previous accounting periods?
Notwithstanding the current difficulties, we may all have been heading for another reduction in losses for this period, which is obviously going in the right direction. Have clubs been making a conscious effort to operate within their means?  Has FFP (if that affects us?) had an effect?
However, I would anticipate that this current crisis will be a major setback in that particular trend for all clubs.
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
GrangeParkCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 9457


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Windows User Level 6
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2020, 18:31:45 pm »

Updated to include all League 2 clubs now.

Cheltenham, Grimsby, Stevenage and Walsall all look to have recorded profits, the rest of us made losses.
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/07, 2007/08, 2011/12, 2012/13, 2018/19 and 2023/24
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Avatar Search Combination
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2020, 18:35:49 pm »

Impressive work GPC.

Carlisle United deserve enormous credit for publishing that level of detail (there are one or two more things I'd like to see - a Detailed Trading account line by line and employee costs in bands of £10k for example). For anyone interested in the detail of the financials at our level this is a first class place to start.

Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4707



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Spammer 25 Posts in one day Avatar Search
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2020, 21:37:10 pm »

A start would be an obligation to publish full accounts as a condition of league membership? Full transparency and accountability should be a must? My view is the current mean trading performance is catastrophic, I can’t emphasise this point enough? This situation is at the heart of all my comments around the other issues we are all arguing about? Anyone who can’t see what’s eventually in store for most clubs must be on drugs? The best analogy I can think of is that it seems to me that most football supporters are like all those people flocking to the beach on a nice sunny day in Jaws, closing their eyes to the horror that awaits? Come to think of it most chairman and especially Rick Parry are exactly like the town mayor?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 21:50:59 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2058



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Avatar Search Combination
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2020, 21:54:20 pm »

MC - Agreed. Utterly unsustainable. They are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land on Sugar Candy Mountain.
Report Spam   Logged
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Online Online

Posts: 14687



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search Level 6 Windows User
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2020, 22:10:26 pm »

A start would be an obligation to publish full accounts as a condition of league membership? Full transparency and accountability should be a must? My view is the current mean trading performance is catastrophic, I can’t emphasise this point enough? This situation is at the heart of all my comments around the other issues we are all arguing about? Anyone who can’t see what’s eventually in store for most clubs must be on drugs? The best analogy I can think of is that it seems to me that most football supporters are like all those people flocking to the beach on a nice sunny day in Jaws, closing their eyes to the horror that awaits? Come to think of it most chairman and especially Rick Parry are exactly like the town mayor?

Agreed, but that is the sport of football at all levels.
Continuing to live on the never never, no other business would get away with it would it?
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4707



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Spammer 25 Posts in one day Avatar Search
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2020, 22:19:16 pm »

Agreed, but that is the sport of football at all levels.
Continuing to live on the never never, no other business would get away with it would it?
Neither will this lot DC it’s only a matter of time? It’s a bit like pyramid selling or a Ponzi scheme. One by one chairman eventually run out of cash and sooner or later there will be no one left willing or able to step in. It’s only a matter of time? We only got away with it by the skin of our teeth last time, and what do you think the current owners would do if they had their time over again? The one question I would ask KT is do you regret buying the club and if not why not? Perhaps that’s 2 questions?
Report Spam   Logged

Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
Vintage Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2531


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2020, 07:14:21 am »

The latest accounts make for grim reading despite the efforts of the club to put a positive spin on the reduction in the operating loss.  I don’t think the latest financials are anything that we didn’t expect but this was the position as at 30 June 2019.  Since then we have COVID-19 and the impact of this is going to be extremely severe throughout the EFL. 

I agree with MC that football clubs should publish full accounts. Someone mentioned Carlisle Utd.  AFC Wimbledon are also an example of transparency and are to be praised. It is difficult to analyse NTFC’s accounts in any great detail which allows KT to get away with his usual gloss supported by a low standard local media which simply repeats what he puts out without any questions.  KT has been allowed to present an operating loss of £1.6 million as a positive!  The economics of the madhouse at work.  The Chronicle  and BBC Northampton are woeful.

As a club we have for some time been back where we were in the Cardozo era heavily indebted to owners and unsustainable without their support.  Again, I agree with MC on this but where we disagree is concerning the ownership model.  As for Rick Parry who thinks the Premier League should not be called on for any financial support to the EFL clubs from its £1.5 billion of cash reserves he ought to be shown the door and quickly. 


Report Spam   Logged
singcobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3177



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Level 6 Avatar Linux User
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2020, 07:36:58 am »

Anyone who is a shareholder in the club has a right to see the full accounts, not just the statement of accounts. However you would be legally bound not to disclose those accounts to anyone else.
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4707



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Spammer 25 Posts in one day Avatar Search
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2020, 07:47:24 am »

The latest accounts make for grim reading despite the efforts of the club to put a positive spin on the reduction in the operating loss.  I don’t think the latest financials are anything that we didn’t expect but this was the position as at 30 June 2019.  Since then we have COVID-19 and the impact of this is going to be extremely severe throughout the EFL. 

I agree with MC that football clubs should publish full accounts. Someone mentioned Carlisle Utd.  AFC Wimbledon are also an example of transparency and are to be praised. It is difficult to analyse NTFC’s accounts in any great detail which allows KT to get away with his usual gloss supported by a low standard local media which simply repeats what he puts out without any questions.  KT has been allowed to present an operating loss of £1.6 million as a positive!  The economics of the madhouse at work.  The Chronicle  and BBC Northampton are woeful.

As a club we have for some time been back where we were in the Cardozo era heavily indebted to owners and unsustainable without their support.  Again, I agree with MC on this but where we disagree is concerning the ownership model.  As for Rick Parry who thinks the Premier League should not be called on for any financial support to the EFL clubs from its £1.5 billion of cash reserves he ought to be shown the door and quickly. 

I don't know if do disagree on the ownership model too much VC? Whilst admittedly having a number of reservations, I am keen on fan ownership model myself. Particularly the German one.
Report Spam   Logged

Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
Vintage Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2531


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 07:53:46 am »

Good to hear it, MC.  It is the German model i much prefer although I can see it may have to be preceded for, hopefully, a short period  by a 100% community owned model depending on the circumstances at the time. 
Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5188


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search 5000 Posts Level 6
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2020, 09:54:56 am »

The devil finds work for idle hands..
Report Spam   Logged
Manwork04
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9395



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Windows User Mobile User Spammer 25 Posts in one day
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2020, 10:29:43 am »

The devil finds work for idle hands..
That made me chuckle  Grin
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 10:44:53 am by Manwork04 » Report Spam   Logged

Rule Britannia
guest48
Guest

Badges: (View All)
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2020, 11:11:55 am »

The devil finds work for idle hands..
Don't be so hard on yourself Nigel  Wink
Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5188


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
Search 5000 Posts Level 6
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2020, 11:54:35 am »

Don't be so hard on yourself Nigel  Wink

Healthcare keyworker here mate... Far from idle at the moment.  Grin Grin

All joking aside. I do think it would be an appropriate time for a truce. By all means continue hostilities after this awful hiatus. But it would show a degree of class not to pour petrol on things at the moment.

Report Spam   Logged
everbrite
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 20267


Steve Howard best since Cliff Holton


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
20000 Posts Search Apple User
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2020, 13:39:35 pm »

Healthcare keyworker here mate... Far from idle at the moment.  Grin Grin

All joking aside. I do think it would be an appropriate time for a truce. By all means continue hostilities after this awful hiatus. But it would show a degree of class not to pour petrol on things at the moment.


At the slightest opportunity a 'few' take the opportunity to come out with 'clever' comments.
One member has clearly done well and posted L2 clubs financial results which is interesting but does not resolve our issues. It could do without a disparaging opening remark " The Chairman declares himself pleased that the club only made a loss of £1.67m in the year ending to June 2019". Most of us know and understand the current situation but it maybe unwise to share the same platform just yet. Perhaps we need a trained/professional accountant to comment on some of the L2 financial statements detailed?
Report Spam   Logged

2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
Pages: [1] 2 3 4   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site!
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy