Accounts are out

[ClarenceInDefence]

Neither will this lot DC it’s only a matter of time? It’s a bit like pyramid selling or a Ponzi scheme. One by one chairman eventually run out of cash and sooner or later there will be no one left willing or able to step in. It’s only a matter of time? We only got away with it by the skin of our teeth last time, and what do you think the current owners would do if they had their time over again? The one question I would ask KT is do you regret buying the club and if not why not? Perhaps that’s 2 questions?

The current football business 'model' has always been a ponzi and it was always going to be a matter of time before it collapses in on itself. Over the last few weeks I have come to the opinion that we may have no more football for 6 months at least, if not a full year. It may be even be longer. At the very least, I'll be amazed if there's any football that isn't behind closed doors within 12 months.

[Another Pedj]

I would have a shilling the same people complaing about the loss are the same ones that wanted a higher budget.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I would have a shilling the same people complaing about the loss are the same ones that wanted a higher budget.

...and the East Stand finishing and a 2000 capacity South Stand and corners filled in, and, and, and...
We'd all like that but some of us have financially realistic heads on?
Unless someone has a funding master-plan, like take control of a spare bit of land, turn it into a financial profit in order to fund some of these aspirations?

Adorns tin hat, ECBA and ducks back into bunker....

[CobblerForever]

I would have a shilling the same people complaing about the loss are the same ones that wanted a higher budget.

I'm living proof that this is not the case. I want my club to budget realistically based on credible forecasts of revenue streams and associated costs. We have a very loyal supporter base many of whom invest in a season ticket well before each season commences. It really shouldn't be that much of an issue. Substantial investment in infrastructure should also be justified on the basis of significant specific revenue increments.

[Vintage Cobbler]

I see the usual KT camp followers are out in numbers.

Just consider if they would the reasons why we are so heavily in hock to our owners and the owners' direct responsibility for the club being back to where it was in the Cardozo era with £7 million debt owing to its owners so that the club exists at their whim.  Well run club, as KT claims, or a club bedevilled with crass and irresponsible decision making at the top? 

I’m sure KT will be using the state of the club’s finances to apply maximum leverage on the Council for a favourable land deal.  The next question is favourable to whom? 

TFAMH has a valid point in calling for a pause but I would only add out that KT and JW have been busy using the ever willing and unquestioning local media over the past couple of days to trot out their spin on the accounts. They need to be countered.

[guest2934]

Good work from GPC nosing through accounts, the boards own private investigator. I do hope you're clear of the lurgy.

The usual tight arsed few racing to the moral high ground over some measly losses, who in their right mind thinks football is a business? It's a folly and the owners know that. Why are some here so worried over somebody else's money? It's not as if the club over it's history has splurged money everywhere on star players and huge stadiums, yet we've been on the edge staring into the abyss more than many clubs. Maybe prudence isn't the best policy?

There's a myriad of reasons why the likes of KT get involved in football and making money surprisingly to some isn't necessarily the main one, it may offset taxes elsewhere, maybe in this case create leverage but a few million isn't a huge amount in today's money for some.

As we've all been hearing recently the best way out of a depression and to create wealth is to spend and invest, so considering we lost about 70 grand a game how do you solve it? Buy some more shit division 4 players, parade them in a shit stadium and hope for the best? Well that's what we've been doing for the last 100 years.

You develop stands, suites, restaurants, bars, hotels if you can, create excitement, other attractions, all the things we've never had as the last plan clearly has not worked. I can hear some bums squeaking but unfortunately it's unarguable as this is business.

Let KT worry about his pockets and his reasons for buying into football clubs, as a supporter you should want the stand finished at the very least.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

I see the usual KT camp followers are out in numbers.

Just consider if they would the reasons why we are so heavily in hock to our owners and the owners' direct responsibility for the club being back to where it was in the Cardozo era with £7 million debt owing to its owners so that the club exists at their whim.  Well run club, as KT claims, or a club bedevilled with crass and irresponsible decision making at the top? 

I’m sure KT will be using the state of the club’s finances to apply maximum leverage on the Council for a favourable land deal.  The next question is favourable to whom? 

TFAMH has a valid point in calling for a pause but I would only add out that KT and JW have been busy using the ever willing and unquestioning local media over the past couple of days to trot out their spin on the accounts. They need to be countered.

I wish that you would come clean and reveal what you know that commits you to continue your anti KT etc tirade and accusations that 'they' are not acting in the best interests of both the club and themselves?
If we knew that, maybe we wouldn't be sitting on the fence (not in the KT camp as you keep accusing us of) and join you on your side of that wooden structure (fence).
From where I and probably quite a few others sit, they are running the club, like most other clubs at our level to maintain survival, albeit that requires them to run it at a loss and as shown in these accounts, they are attempting to reduce that year on year.
You keep posting about various things but do not produce any evidence, apart from your interpreted guesswork, that has yet to convince me that they are not.
I challenge you to produce what you know, without the use of your biased interpretations and guesswork, or you'll never be able to recruit any of us to your select club.

Before you provide your answer of usual flippancy, I always work in/on facts not the usual and continual guessed interpretations that you keep posting, go on convince me.  

[Vintage Cobbler]

The facts are, Deepcut, that the club after over 4 years of the present ownership finds itself in the same financial position as was the case under the previous owners.  An operating loss of £1.6 million (yes, it represent a reduction) and accrued debts owing to the the owners of about £7 million makes for bleak reading but if you are happy with that then that is a matter for you.  I wonder if some of you ever learn from the past and this is why it is always right to be questioning and vigilant.

On the development side of matters the same comment applies.  It is shrouded in mist and I doubt that when the time comes we will be much the wiser.

Owners need to be held to account.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Just like to chuck this into the mix? Whilst the clubs may cling onto survival through this crisis many other businesses won’t? What happens if some of those businesses are owned by current Chairman? You see when clubs are heavily financed by Chairman they are not only reliant on the clubs balance sheet, they are also reliant on the balance sheets of the other business interests of any financial backer? Just pointing out the bleeding obvious again.

[everbrite]

I see the usual KT camp followers are out in numbers.

Typical comment - I am amazed that you are allowed to deride all NTFC personalities with inpunity?
I bet Pedji's shilling you well may end up in trouble.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Good work from GPC nosing through accounts, the boards own private investigator. I do hope you're clear of the lurgy.

The usual tight arsed few racing to the moral high ground over some measly losses, who in their right mind thinks football is a business? It's a folly and the owners know that. Why are some here so worried over somebody else's money? It's not as if the club over it's history has splurged money everywhere on star players and huge stadiums, yet we've been on the edge staring into the abyss more than many clubs. Maybe prudence isn't the best policy?

There's a myriad of reasons why the likes of KT get involved in football and making money surprisingly to some isn't necessarily the main one, it may offset taxes elsewhere, maybe in this case create leverage but a few million isn't a huge amount in today's money for some.

As we've all been hearing recently the best way out of a depression and to create wealth is to spend and invest, so considering we lost about 70 grand a game how do you solve it? Buy some more shit division 4 players, parade them in a shit stadium and hope for the best? Well that's what we've been doing for the last 100 years.

You develop stands, suites, restaurants, bars, hotels if you can, create excitement, other attractions, all the things we've never had as the last plan clearly has not worked. I can hear some bums squeaking but unfortunately it's unarguable as this is business.

Let KT worry about his pockets and his reasons for buying into football clubs, as a supporter you should want the stand finished at the very least.

You apparently? Sorry for being a smart arse but you just can’t seperate the 2. It’s just too simplistic, that’s my view anyway?

[guest48]

Typical comment - I am amazed that you are allowed to deride all NTFC personalities with inpunity?
I bet Pedji's shilling you well may end up in trouble.

[guest2934]

You apparently? Sorry for being a smart arse but you just can’t seperate the 2. It’s just too simplistic, that’s my view anyway?

No, sorry I wasn't clear, the folly is the men playing football on the field, the business is off of it. We have only ever invested in a few men kicking a ball around, that's why we are where we are.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

No, sorry I wasn't clear, the folly is the men playing football on the field, the business is off of it. We have only ever invested in a few men kicking a ball around, that's why we are where we are.

See what you mean, sorry.

[guest2995]

Quite simply , we should be grateful we have a club to support at all at the end of this saga .
Many football clubs and businesses will not survive and are only being kept alive through furloughing if staff.
Once that stops , they will go under if not before .
As for playing behind closed doors - that is unrealistic and irresponsible . It puts pressure on the NHS unnecessarily and will draw people together in groups .
KT has openly said he will fund things going forward short term . You can only thank him for that .
Seriously , some on here need to grip reality right now

[everbrite]

Don't be so hard on yourself Nigel 

 

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Healthcare keyworker here mate... Far from idle at the moment. 

All joking aside. I do think it would be an appropriate time for a truce. By all means continue hostilities after this awful hiatus. But it would show a degree of class not to pour petrol on things at the moment.

Can I just add and apologise to Roger on this. It was admittedly fishing a bit. But the truce comment certainly wasn't aimed specifically at the Trust or Roger.


The good thing about it though. Is that it seems to stop some of the more cerebral contributors from aiming at the club still. But others are less able to oblige 

[guest3264]

Obviously a few on here have a politcal agenda for the future of the club BUT if their views were so benificial for NTFC why has it not gone beyond the 'keyboard'?

As a current shareholder I have not had the latest details of the accounts yet but find it strange that KT/DB continue increasing the debt to themselves year on year!

I might be way off the mark but the only way they will get the debt repaid is by agreeing a land deal with NBC. With the debt increasing and the land value probably decreasing recently surely their optimum time to do a deal is now, to maximise any profit for themselves. I just hope the Council stick to their word and make sure the East Stand (Executive boxes and Conference centre) are completed and paid for BEFORE the land deal is finally concluded!

[ClarenceInDefence]

Quite simply , we should be grateful we have a club to support at all at the end of this saga .
Many football clubs and businesses will not survive and are only being kept alive through furloughing if staff.
Once that stops , they will go under if not before .
As for playing behind closed doors - that is unrealistic and irresponsible . It puts pressure on the NHS unnecessarily and will draw people together in groups .
KT has openly said he will fund things going forward short term . You can only thank him for that .
Seriously , some on here need to grip reality right now

This crisis is going to turn the game on its head, simple as that. My opinion is that there won't be any football for 12 months at least, by then the industry would have more or less suffered a collapse anyway.

[everbrite]

This crisis is going to turn the game on its head, simple as that. My opinion is that there won't be any football for 12 months at least, by then the industry would have more or less suffered a collapse anyway.

Well that has cheered me up! Plenty rumours currently circulating. No football for 12 months? That's assuming no vaccine and other measures to allow some sort of spectator participation. Would suggest that Boxing and perhaps Rugby(both variants) may suffer. Cricket might be a survivor? Bowls probably ok