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A big thank you to our socialist government

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Author Topic: A big thank you to our socialist government  (Read 413 times)
Bingers
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« on: May 13, 2020, 10:01:28 am »

This is a genuine thank you to our government for ignoring past ideology and implementing some socialist policies to help protect those of us who could have gone under in these times of need.  I don't agree with all their actions by any means, but economically they have taken a risk and it could have been so much worse, both now and in the future.

I am a sole trader and today was able to go on line and confirm my claim the self employed financial help scheme.  It was very quick and easy with confirmation that soon I will be receiving what I thought I was due, to help tide me over until I can get back to working again (first bit of work for 8 weeks due next Tuesday!).

We all have times of need, whether it is me at the moment or the drug addicts who have hit rock bottom and are living on the street.  That's why we pay tax - to help those who need it.  Also to help fund our public services that so many of us have really relied upon.  Be proud to pay your taxes!  I declare all my income, don't get an accountant to find ways to reduce what I owe so I can pay them a fee - I pay what I really am due.  If only big corporations would do the same.

I would be happy to pay a raised rate of income tax to help those sectors which have been underfunded for far too long, but really do think those who can afford more should also shoulder more of that burden, including and particularly the big corporations.

As well as a thank you to those decision makers, thanks to those at the HMRC for making it happen and also to all you fellow tax payers who are helping me put food on my family's table.  When my earnings are back up again, I will support some fellow local traders to help get their businesses going again - but it won't be those who offer a discount for cash.
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2020, 11:18:11 am »

There are a number of organisations and individuals that have been highlighted (and continue to be) for what they are during this crisis, both good and bad.  I would hope, but wouldn't expect, that the people will remember their respective contributions when the situation returns to some semblance of normality and treat them accordingly...
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2020, 12:12:36 pm »

I would have lost my job if it wasn't for the furlough scheme. I'm not getting anywhere near what I usually get but it's enough to tide us over, cover our bills and put food on the table, which is all you really need. It also means I'll have a job to go back to when things calm down so I'm very much appreciative of the financial measures the government have put into place. They may not have got everything 100% right when you look at the big scheme of things, but I don't think anyone would have done, regardless of who was in charge.
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2020, 14:11:15 pm »

Can I just say. I don't agree with paying for any of you malingering f***ers..  Tongue Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2020, 18:14:35 pm »

Can I just say. I don't agree with paying for any of you malingering f***ers..  Tongue Tongue

Malingering is about right! I've done pretty much all the DIY jobs I had on the list so it's now just a case of spending a lot more time with my little girl. I'm loving it, to be honest! It's going to be a real effort to drag myself back to work when all this is over!!!
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2020, 17:56:19 pm »

After all this is over our economy is going to be in a bit of a state, surely then the Government should think of launching a "Buy British" campaign. OK you can get a pair of shoes, a coat or a shirt made in China, a few quid cheaper but we should support British industry. A big part of the current problems with PPE and the like, is we don't make anything anymore, in the 1970's if you wanted gowns or anything like that, Leicester was full of textile factories, we made EVERYTHING in the UK !! Now if China decides not to sell to us or double the prices we can't do anything apart from pay up. Whoever made the decision to decimate British industry for political gain, should be turning in their grave.
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2020, 20:42:10 pm »

Fully agree with this. Sadly, I think that stretched finances both in the treasury and in millions of UK households will mean that the low cost option is likely to prevail over the "buy British" one.  Sad
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2020, 04:14:09 am »

After all this is over our economy is going to be in a bit of a state, surely then the Government should think of launching a "Buy British" campaign. OK you can get a pair of shoes, a coat or a shirt made in China, a few quid cheaper but we should support British industry. A big part of the current problems with PPE and the like, is we don't make anything anymore, in the 1970's if you wanted gowns or anything like that, Leicester was full of textile factories, we made EVERYTHING in the UK !! Now if China decides not to sell to us or double the prices we can't do anything apart from pay up. Whoever made the decision to decimate British industry for political gain, should be turning in their grave.
Interesting points Rog.

Whilst I note you were merely suggesting a "Buy British Campaign" these are the facts from the House of Commons Library.

Some key statistics on the UK’s trade with China.

In 2018:

UK exports to China were worth £22.6 billion; imports from China were £44.7 billion, resulting in a trade deficit of -£22.1 billion.
The UK had a small surplus with China on trade in services, outweighed by a deficit on trade in goods.
China accounted for 3.5% of UK exports and 6.6% of all UK imports.
China was the UK’s sixth largest export market and fourth largest source of imports. UK trade with China increased rapidly since the turn of the century – in 1999 China was the UK’s 26th largest export market and 15th largest source of imports.

So on face value a deficit of 22.1 billion, however should trade restrictions ever be applied against China, 22.6 billion of exports would go down the tubes so the question is the capability of the UK to sell those exports elsewhere and address the inevitable job loses that may be generated by those export losses? Could we or do we have the capability, resource or access to raw materials to manufacture the goods imported from China and do we have an alternative market for the current 22.6 billion of exports? If we do manufacture the current imports from China, would we have to import the raw materials from elsewhere, which simply moves some of the trade deficit from A to B? What percentage of the imports from China do UK businesses use to make goods that they then export to other countries? Would forcing those companies to buy British drive up their costs making them uncompetitive internationally and ruining their capability to export making the trade deficit and employment statistics even worse?  Perhaps it is all possible, perhaps it is not? However, the point is it as not as nearly straight forward as you would imagine and may be a disaster, or on the flip side a raging success? What you don't do is make a decision blind without a proper evaluation, because the end result may not be nearly as favourable as imagined? So whilst the "Buy British" policy would no doubt be a massive vote winner it may, and I emphasise may, be a smoke and mirrors policy that has nowhere near the intended impact? So voters beware of any jingoistic rhetoric from our friends in the House of Commons? All this applies to the situation with EU as well and some of this just may come out in the wash? Don't be surprised if in 10 years time in turns out that the split with the EU achieved absolutely nothing? That being said, the UKs largest trade deficit remains with China, the biggest surplus is with the US.

Full list for those interested is here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_United_Kingdom
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2020, 09:43:19 am »

I know it's a complicated situation Dale, all I was saying is, in my view, we don't use our natural assets as much as we should. Just a small example, when I was a kid all the kids in rural villages used to go fruit picking in the evenings after school or the school holidays. At the moment, we have thousands of people not at work but there are plane loads of people being flown in from Romania to pick fruit, does that make sense ?
   You sometimes hear "They are doing the jobs that the Brits won't do" but, surely, in these strange times we should have tried to get locals to do this job rather than flying people in ? Was any attempt made to recruit locals ? if it was I didn't see it.
   I know we live in a "Global" world and things are never going to go back to what it was like in the 70's but one lesson we really should learn is to keep some of our own industries going, probably by nationalising them, so in emergencies, we can "ramp up" our own production, rather they finish up buying useless gowns from a bloke who makes tee shirts in Turkey !
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2020, 11:15:01 am »

After all this is over our economy is going to be in a bit of a state, surely then the Government should think of launching a "Buy British" campaign. OK you can get a pair of shoes, a coat or a shirt made in China, a few quid cheaper but we should support British industry. A big part of the current problems with PPE and the like, is we don't make anything anymore, in the 1970's if you wanted gowns or anything like that, Leicester was full of textile factories, we made EVERYTHING in the UK !! Now if China decides not to sell to us or double the prices we can't do anything apart from pay up. Whoever made the decision to decimate British industry for political gain, should be turning in their grave.

I agree with the sentiment of supporting British industry, however the last sentence is missing the point somewhat.

The decision to "decimate" the British textiles industry, to use your example, was made over time by the British consumer (albeit unconciously). I doubt they did it for political gain.
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2020, 11:34:31 am »

I know it's a complicated situation Dale, all I was saying is, in my view, we don't use our natural assets as much as we should. Just a small example, when I was a kid all the kids in rural villages used to go fruit picking in the evenings after school or the school holidays. At the moment, we have thousands of people not at work but there are plane loads of people being flown in from Romania to pick fruit, does that make sense ?
   You sometimes hear "They are doing the jobs that the Brits won't do" but, surely, in these strange times we should have tried to get locals to do this job rather than flying people in ? Was any attempt made to recruit locals ? if it was I didn't see it.
   I know we live in a "Global" world and things are never going to go back to what it was like in the 70's but one lesson we really should learn is to keep some of our own industries going, probably by nationalising them, so in emergencies, we can "ramp up" our own production, rather they finish up buying useless gowns from a bloke who makes tee shirts in Turkey !

Only one part of your piece: but of the 50,000 UK applicants to be fruit pickers, only 112 turned up, citing that it was too far away as they didn't want to commute, they didn't want to work for eight hours a day and that they would only work when the weather was good as reasons for not following through with their applications...
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2020, 11:57:38 am »

Only one part of your piece: but of the 50,000 UK applicants to be fruit pickers, only 112 turned up, citing that it was too far away as they didn't want to commute, they didn't want to work for eight hours a day and that they would only work when the weather was good as reasons for not following through with their applications...
I can understand not wanting to travel long distances when we were told to stay in doors, but I did say "local". I'm pretty sure there must be fruit farms around Northampton still, if so do the have enough LOCAL workforce because I've certainly not seen any requests for labour and I watch/listen to local news and read the local FB pages. If there is enough locals, fair play, but we shouldn't be flying people in from Eastern Europe when we could do it ourselves, what happens next year when we ,probably, cant bring in Romanians ?
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2020, 15:18:33 pm »

.....................................Whoever made the decision to decimate British industry for political gain, should be turning in their grave.

So you would have the Miners for instance kept going although their output was declining and coal from Poland was half the price of UK Coal! What did for the Coal Miners was the economic factor which hastened their demise. Same for the Cotton Mills as India simply out priced the Mills. You might suppose it was pure political gain but it was simple pressure by economic factors. As you know this happened to the Boot and Shoe, Ship Building Industry amongst others. Certain Union Leaders opposed the measures for power and political gains. Their uncompromising stance regarding return of year 1 and 2 Schools is a bit disconcerting; just hope they listen and come to an agreement with Prof. Whitty.
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« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2020, 17:23:35 pm »

So you would have the Miners for instance kept going although their output was declining Wrong and coal from Poland was half the price of UK Coal! What did for the Coal Miners was the economic factor which hastened their demise So now we are at the mercy of whatever anyone wants to charge us, knowing we have no alternative. Same for the Cotton Mills as India simply out priced the Mills. You might suppose it was pure political gain but it was simple pressure by economic factors. As you know this happened to the Boot and Shoe, Ship Building Industry amongst others. Certain Union Leaders opposed the measures for power and political gains. What do you consider is the job of a Union Leader? I would think it's to do the best for their members and protect their jobs Their uncompromising stance regarding return of year 1 and 2 Schools is a bit disconcerting; just hope they listen and come to an agreement with Prof. Whitty.
If you read what I said , it wasn't that we keep all the industries as they were, but with something like Ship Building and Steel Works once you shut them, they don't reopen, only Trump supporters think they do, and you are at the mercy of whoever you buy from. We generate enough work in the UK to keep our Steelworks and Ship builders going. When you close everything, if you suddenly need the product , you are starting from nothing as opposed to "Ramping things up" as I suggested
  Surely Evers, you can remember when we made virtually everything we needed in the UK to good standards, I know we can't go back to those days but we CAN keep a viable manufacturing section.
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« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2020, 18:23:16 pm »

I know it's a complicated situation Dale, all I was saying is, in my view, we don't use our natural assets as much as we should. Just a small example, when I was a kid all the kids in rural villages used to go fruit picking in the evenings after school or the school holidays. At the moment, we have thousands of people not at work but there are plane loads of people being flown in from Romania to pick fruit, does that make sense ?
   You sometimes hear "They are doing the jobs that the Brits won't do" but, surely, in these strange times we should have tried to get locals to do this job rather than flying people in ? Was any attempt made to recruit locals ? if it was I didn't see it.
   I know we live in a "Global" world and things are never going to go back to what it was like in the 70's but one lesson we really should learn is to keep some of our own industries going, probably by nationalising them, so in emergencies, we can "ramp up" our own production, rather they finish up buying useless gowns from a bloke who makes tee shirts in Turkey !
Well, regarding labour that’s a different point altogether, I agree with that. By the way, when you were a kid was that fruit picking or scrumping? Absolutely delighted I’ve got to use that word again, I don’t know why?
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« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2020, 18:57:14 pm »

Well, regarding labour that’s a different point altogether, I agree with that. By the way, when you were a kid was that fruit picking or scrumping? Absolutely delighted I’ve got to use that word again, I don’t know why?
Grin It was MOSTLY official fruit picking, we used to pick Strawberrys at Grendon, all the kids used to go back to get them weighed and get paid for picking them (4d a pound) with red mouths. Eat the best ones and get paid for the others
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« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2020, 22:13:17 pm »

My turn. I work in construction . I  had Romanian workers. Because my contractor realised that they were cheap. And I have never seen such a poorly educated race in my life. You tell them not to do it on Monday, it did not apply on Tuesday. Because it was another day. You had to tell them again. And it was always about safety. They just never got it. I think that their opinion was if it happens, it happens. They never accepted that H&S would be banging at the door the next day, looking for a scapegoat. And that would be me. I gave Valentin a wheelbarrow once. Paint your name on it mate. Thank you Mister Pete. Was the response. Next thing I know, hes running around making "Brum Brum noises with it. We went up to another site just up the road. In order to shift some stuff back to HQ. Do not spill that paint was the command. It took about five seconds. Over it went. All over the pavement. In Westminster. Clean it know! I am sorry if this makes me sound like a bully, as I am not, but I just could not get through to them. I have another story about the time he did not do what he was instructed, which was take that  little scaff down, and bring it upstairs. Nope, we will leave it intact and squeeze it into a 240 volt cable. It glowed, the fire alarms went off, I am running around with a red canister, "what the fukcs going on? He had clearly had a 240 belt. Get your kit off. As the first aider I needed to make sure that he was not still burning anywhere. Water at the ready. His eyes where huge. But it was for his safety. But they never got it. I never want to meet Romanians  again. Ever. judge me if you wish, but this is how it is. And I  have got a lot more tales about those idiots.
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« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2020, 00:11:37 am »

Up a stepladder drilling some holes. Preb work for the Sparks. Just making sure that all is OK for them. In walks a Romanian Idiot, with a bag of rubbish. And looks around, and puts it underneath my ladder. Dont put it there, I shouted. He was inches away from my boots and yellow kneepads, and still looked around, thinking where did that come from? He was in the stepladder for gods sake. I will never work with these people again. If you are a site labourer then you are at the bottom of  the tree. Especially anyone from Bucharest. They are so stupid . My apologies to all of you snowflakes out there, and anybody that I have offended.
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« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2020, 00:37:40 am »

But the one really good thing is...……………………………………………………………………………………………………….they are very cheap

 I was an auditor for a well know mobile phone company, the guys that installed our equipment were skilled engineers. One of the companies that worked for us bought over 8 Romanians, put them all up in a house in Luton and paid them less for a week than the skilled engineers got for a day, which was fine until we audited a couple of sites, saw what a pile of crap it was, then checked the other sites they had done. Result was more work for the proper engineers to go back and, basically, rip it out and start again, we didn't see the Romanians again.
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« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2020, 09:15:22 am »

Strange isn't it, considering how successful they've been with washing our cars.
Opening up again round our way.
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