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No Trust In The Trust

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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2020, 10:41:36 am »

Are we at a stage with the Supporters Trust where a large portion of the support feel they are irrelevant, if that is the case then maybe it is time the trust reach out to the fans as a whole and ask what they want from a supporters trust or even if they want one.
There have been a few comments recently from various different people on social media to the fact that they feel the trust is a small clique which does not represent its members let alone the fans.

I don't know if they do or don't but now is probably a good time for them to put some sort of questionaire out to the general fan base and not just members to see what is needed and wanted, the original trust was well needed and represented what we as supporters wanted, but in the last few years we seem somehow to have moved away from that. The people who work for the trust put a lot of time into doing what they think is best and give up a lot of their spare time but if its not what the fans want then is it right?
FFS Battery if that’s not the crux of the problem I don’t know what is? We’ve all been saying it but the Trust ain’t having it? People can view that as attacking the Trust if they like but I disagree. What people have to realise is that people with that view are possibly the Trusts greatest guardians, because unless the Trust take this on board they probably haven’t got much of a future and I personally think that would be a tragedy.
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2020, 10:50:32 am »

FFS Battery if that’s not the crux of the problem I don’t know what is? We’ve all been saying it but the Trust ain’t having it? People can view that as attacking the Trust if they like but I disagree. What people have to realise is that people with that view are possibly the Trusts greatest guardians, because unless the Trust take this on board they probably haven’t got much of a future and I personally think that would be a tragedy.

I was trying to put it in a way that didn't seem like I was having a go because I think a fully functioning trust with the full support of the fans is what we need and want going forward. Unfortunately I think your right it will be seen as an attack, but what we have doesn't work for me in the form it is in and nobody around me in the West either.
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2020, 10:53:27 am »

I was trying to put it in a way that didn't seem like I was having a go because I think a fully functioning trust with the full support of the fans is what we need and want going forward. Unfortunately I think your right it will be seen as an attack, but what we have doesn't work for me in the form it is in and nobody around me in the West either.

+1 ( to both you and Melly's last few comments)
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« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2020, 11:12:55 am »

What does the trust actually do these days, given the owners clearly have no interest and the trust have no shares in the club.

What happened to the funds raised in the dark days of donations. Do the trust have open accounts?

Given the cardoza money situation all happened on the trust's watch what value does the trust provide?

No ace to grind just would be nice to hear what they give us
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2020, 11:23:52 am »

What does the trust actually do these days, given the owners clearly have no interest and the trust have no shares in the club. The trust has a 2.6% share in the club. Whilst very low, they are still a shareholder in the club. Personally I don't believe shares are necessary for fan representation to happen. if anything, having shares makes it more of a business interest than a supporting interest and could murky the waters.

What happened to the funds raised in the dark days of donations. The members were polled and it was decided the Trust should keep it and set it aside for a "rainy day fund".

Do the trust have open accounts? Yes. You can view them on their website.

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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2020, 11:29:19 am »

This made me think a bit. It's something I often rail against myself, particularly in terms of social media where people tend to surround themselves with bubbles of like minded people and trigger howls of righteous fury when someone wanders in and offers a polar opinion to the accepted norm. I don't think it's healthy at all and only serves to isolate people from wider opinion and reassure them that they are in the right amidst all the backslapping from their like-thinking friends.

Personally, I don't get it. What's the point of having a debate with someone who thinks exactly the same as you? I love having a discussion with someone who thinks differently to me, not because I'm argumentative and certainly not because I want to convert them to my way of thinking, but because I enjoy the to-ing and fro-ing, relish the opportunity to be able to see things from a different perspective and possibly to learn something new along the way. My sister-in-law, who I've mentioned before, is quite the opposite. She enters a debate to win it, refuses to see anyone else's point of view and won't stop until she thinks she's completely humiliated the other party. She's also very much in an aforementioned social media bubble where someone says something and everyone else vigorously agrees with it and then they are all shocked when things go in a different direction in the real world (a bubble from which I have now been ejected, by the way. Grin)

Anyway, rambling aside, getting back to ntfclad's point, it made me think because I've been pretty vocally partisan on this. The problem is, in this instance, I do find myself falling very definitely on one side rather than the other, because...

  • I've absolutely no doubt the Trust are well meaning.
  • I think KT (despite the bluster and BS he comes out with) is also genuine in his intent, but I can't be 100% sure of that.
  • KT is far more adept at pushing people's buttons than the Trust. This often makes their amateurish responses to things appear in far greater contrast than they maybe are. It's like watching Stephen Fry cross verbal swords with Wayne Rooney.
  • On a similar note, KT and DB have proven themselves to be shrewd businessmen, especially if you look at their activities away from NTFC. I think they are operating on a plane the Trust don't know exists, much less understand, and I'd put the council in the same boat, quite frankly. I think this leads to a degree of suspicion, particularly in the wake of the missing millions mess - what's all this Belle Du Jour and Caymen Islands stuff about?!? Maybe it would be helpful for KT to sit the Trust down and talk them through the structure of things, including the proposed deal. Sign them into an NDA if necessary, but demystifying things goes a long way towards getting buy in.
  • The Trust are correct to ask difficult questions. Without a doubt. They just have the knack of wading in with their size 9s and making everything sound like an accusation rather than a question.
  • The Trust seem intent on overstretching their reach. Look at the fan ownership fixation (not an agenda!), the laughable "DNA of an NTFC player" nonsense that came out of the last public meeting or point 5 from their list of concerns - they make themselves look self-important and silly, which undermines any valid point they might have.
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy. I picture the Trust meetings as being akin to something out of Citizen Smith, with everything agreed by committee. Of course have a board, and use them to delegate tasks to and provide advice when something is within their field of knowledge, but elect a chairman who is then empowered to act autonomously without everything going before the whole board. How many times have we heard "we have a meeting on x, we'll discuss it then" in response to a simple question? Behave like a company, not a commune.

Basically, I find myself immensely irritated by the Trust, not so much because of anything they do, more because of the way in which they go about everything!


I find myself in almost 100% agreement with this post.....therefore I shall not be entering into any more debates with you.....!!  Grin Grin
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2020, 12:44:41 pm »

This made me think a bit. It's something I often rail against myself, particularly in terms of social media where people tend to surround themselves with bubbles of like minded people and trigger howls of righteous fury when someone wanders in and offers a polar opinion to the accepted norm. I don't think it's healthy at all and only serves to isolate people from wider opinion and reassure them that they are in the right amidst all the backslapping from their like-thinking friends.

Personally, I don't get it. What's the point of having a debate with someone who thinks exactly the same as you? I love having a discussion with someone who thinks differently to me, not because I'm argumentative and certainly not because I want to convert them to my way of thinking, but because I enjoy the to-ing and fro-ing, relish the opportunity to be able to see things from a different perspective and possibly to learn something new along the way. My sister-in-law, who I've mentioned before, is quite the opposite. She enters a debate to win it, refuses to see anyone else's point of view and won't stop until she thinks she's completely humiliated the other party. She's also very much in an aforementioned social media bubble where someone says something and everyone else vigorously agrees with it and then they are all shocked when things go in a different direction in the real world (a bubble from which I have now been ejected, by the way. Grin)

Anyway, rambling aside, getting back to ntfclad's point, it made me think because I've been pretty vocally partisan on this. The problem is, in this instance, I do find myself falling very definitely on one side rather than the other, because...

  • I've absolutely no doubt the Trust are well meaning.
  • I think KT (despite the bluster and BS he comes out with) is also genuine in his intent, but I can't be 100% sure of that.
  • KT is far more adept at pushing people's buttons than the Trust. This often makes their amateurish responses to things appear in far greater contrast than they maybe are. It's like watching Stephen Fry cross verbal swords with Wayne Rooney.
  • On a similar note, KT and DB have proven themselves to be shrewd businessmen, especially if you look at their activities away from NTFC. I think they are operating on a plane the Trust don't know exists, much less understand, and I'd put the council in the same boat, quite frankly. I think this leads to a degree of suspicion, particularly in the wake of the missing millions mess - what's all this Belle Du Jour and Caymen Islands stuff about?!? Maybe it would be helpful for KT to sit the Trust down and talk them through the structure of things, including the proposed deal. Sign them into an NDA if necessary, but demystifying things goes a long way towards getting buy in.
  • The Trust are correct to ask difficult questions. Without a doubt. They just have the knack of wading in with their size 9s and making everything sound like an accusation rather than a question.
  • The Trust seem intent on overstretching their reach. Look at the fan ownership fixation (not an agenda!), the laughable "DNA of an NTFC player" nonsense that came out of the last public meeting or point 5 from their list of concerns - they make themselves look self-important and silly, which undermines any valid point they might have.
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy. I picture the Trust meetings as being akin to something out of Citizen Smith, with everything agreed by committee. Of course have a board, and use them to delegate tasks to and provide advice when something is within their field of knowledge, but elect a chairman who is then empowered to act autonomously without everything going before the whole board. How many times have we heard "we have a meeting on x, we'll discuss it then" in response to a simple question? Behave like a company, not a commune.

Basically, I find myself immensely irritated by the Trust, not so much because of anything they do, more because of the way in which they go about everything!


+1 to this and to ntfclad sentiments.
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« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2020, 19:14:57 pm »

This made me think a bit. It's something I often rail against myself, particularly in terms of social media where people tend to surround themselves with bubbles of like minded people and trigger howls of righteous fury when someone wanders in and offers a polar opinion to the accepted norm. I don't think it's healthy at all and only serves to isolate people from wider opinion and reassure them that they are in the right amidst all the backslapping from their like-thinking friends.

Personally, I don't get it. What's the point of having a debate with someone who thinks exactly the same as you? I love having a discussion with someone who thinks differently to me, not because I'm argumentative and certainly not because I want to convert them to my way of thinking, but because I enjoy the to-ing and fro-ing, relish the opportunity to be able to see things from a different perspective and possibly to learn something new along the way. My sister-in-law, who I've mentioned before, is quite the opposite. She enters a debate to win it, refuses to see anyone else's point of view and won't stop until she thinks she's completely humiliated the other party. She's also very much in an aforementioned social media bubble where someone says something and everyone else vigorously agrees with it and then they are all shocked when things go in a different direction in the real world (a bubble from which I have now been ejected, by the way. Grin)

Anyway, rambling aside, getting back to ntfclad's point, it made me think because I've been pretty vocally partisan on this. The problem is, in this instance, I do find myself falling very definitely on one side rather than the other, because...

  • I've absolutely no doubt the Trust are well meaning.
  • I think KT (despite the bluster and BS he comes out with) is also genuine in his intent, but I can't be 100% sure of that.
  • KT is far more adept at pushing people's buttons than the Trust. This often makes their amateurish responses to things appear in far greater contrast than they maybe are. It's like watching Stephen Fry cross verbal swords with Wayne Rooney.
  • On a similar note, KT and DB have proven themselves to be shrewd businessmen, especially if you look at their activities away from NTFC. I think they are operating on a plane the Trust don't know exists, much less understand, and I'd put the council in the same boat, quite frankly. I think this leads to a degree of suspicion, particularly in the wake of the missing millions mess - what's all this Belle Du Jour and Caymen Islands stuff about?!? Maybe it would be helpful for KT to sit the Trust down and talk them through the structure of things, including the proposed deal. Sign them into an NDA if necessary, but demystifying things goes a long way towards getting buy in.
  • The Trust are correct to ask difficult questions. Without a doubt. They just have the knack of wading in with their size 9s and making everything sound like an accusation rather than a question.
  • The Trust seem intent on overstretching their reach. Look at the fan ownership fixation (not an agenda!), the laughable "DNA of an NTFC player" nonsense that came out of the last public meeting or point 5 from their list of concerns - they make themselves look self-important and silly, which undermines any valid point they might have.
  • Unnecessary bureaucracy. I picture the Trust meetings as being akin to something out of Citizen Smith, with everything agreed by committee. Of course have a board, and use them to delegate tasks to and provide advice when something is within their field of knowledge, but elect a chairman who is then empowered to act autonomously without everything going before the whole board. How many times have we heard "we have a meeting on x, we'll discuss it then" in response to a simple question? Behave like a company, not a commune.

Basically, I find myself immensely irritated by the Trust, not so much because of anything they do, more because of the way in which they go about everything!


Pretty much agree with this, with one major exception. The biggest annoyance throughout for me, has been the Trusts boards insistence that they insisted that KT is not operating in the support and the clubs best interest. Whilst totally lacking the bottle to put themselves under the very same scrutiny.

But anything that gets it sorted for good, is fine with me.
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« Reply #28 on: August 05, 2020, 19:30:54 pm »

It seems to be the trend these days, you can’t sit in the middle and have a balanced view it’s either you think the Trust are dreadful and have an agenda or that Thomas is Cardoza in disguise.

Have the trust gone about things as well as they could have? Definitely not
Are they asking some valid questions? I think so



Agreed. Think some of the uproar to the trust has been over the top. From my perspective, their initial statement has led to more discussion on the East Stand and land, than there has been in months. That can only be a good thing for Northampton Town Football Club.
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« Reply #29 on: August 05, 2020, 19:47:18 pm »

Agreed. Think some of the uproar to the trust has been over the top. From my perspective, their initial statement has led to more discussion on the East Stand and land, than there has been in months. That can only be a good thing for Northampton Town Football Club.
+1
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