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Crowd trials

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« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2020, 11:25:47 am »

Indeed Manny...

I bought our season tickets out of blind faith...with the full knowledge that I may not be using them anytime soon, and with a chance that they would not be used at all.

The only thing thats currently p1ssing me off with regards to this saga (other than self pitty bitterness!) and how we've paid for something that we cant get much value out of, is the i-player and how EFL are doing their upmost to block us from linking up our devices to the TV. That is plain wrong. I know from the other thread that you've managed to work it out, but Im convinced its down to the random combo of devices and tv's and we all have. Some its ok, others it doesn't work.

Either way, its clearly been blocked. That should be addressed prompt so at least every lower league football fan can watch their team on a big screen and make the most out of this sh1t show!


It is an irritation, isn't it? I presume it's to prevent pubs etc screening it, but the fact it periodically pops up with an identifier on screen to allow any culprits to be identified (although obviously that relies on someone being in the pub to report it!), plus the fact that there's nothing stopping a pub plugging in a laptop via HDMI means all they are doing in locking it down is making things inconvenient to the average punter. All the HDMI ports are in use on my telly, so I don't really want to start scrabbling about on my hands and knees to swap one of them out every time I want to watch the game.

Personally, I've been lucky in that both me and my dad have a Samsung TV and a Samsung tablet, and they evidently use some sort of proprietary casting between them that iFollow doesn't block!
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« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2020, 11:31:18 am »

Severe doubts whether we will get to attend any/many games this season. I will watch most games on I Follow if necessary. I purchased the ST in the full knowledge of the potential implications because I wanted to support the Club and equally did not want a refund for last year either. I just hope the club can keep going in the interim and I hope as many as possible are watching via I Follow. It’s not just the match day tickets they are missing its all the inc9me from the peripherals eg Programmes, bar etc.
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« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2020, 12:04:30 pm »

I think that the small print would need to be scrutinised and a few or maybe a lot of people possibly don't have the opportunity to use the iFollow match coverage?

Small print checked, nor any mention of COVID-19 and the possibility of a refund or non-refund, only that STH will have free access to the currently under performing iFollow for a limited period (currently to the beginning of October). 
Although many people may understand that there was the possibility that they were giving money for nothing and I assume that they can/could afford to do that, there will be many who cannot afford to give that amount to the club for a service that they are not going to receive, especially if they are not using iFollow, which is not a value for money exchange anyway.

I am not and never have been a STH at The Cobblers.
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« Reply #43 on: September 22, 2020, 12:20:23 pm »

Any sane person or businessman with any sense of responsibility would not spend any more money in the transfer market this season .
Unless you have deep pockets as a chairman , you are literally gambling with the club’s future .
I would be surprised if season ticket holders or anyone else witness a game live all season .

There you have it - no change for 6 months .
No attendance at football this season pretty much confirmed .
Club need to make a statement on season tickets I would suggest .
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« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2020, 12:32:44 pm »

There you have it - no change for 6 months .
No attendance at football this season pretty much confirmed .
Club need to make a statement on season tickets I would suggest .

I would suggest so too!! Potentially West Stand season ticket holders have paid the equivalent of £18.70 per game, and they are getting no more than someone who is now paying £10 per game by buying IFollow on a match by match basis.

The simple way to deal with things would be to refund all season ticket money paid, and then make all fans who wanted to watch the games pay £10 a pop. Unfortunately that would probably be crippling, losing the best part of a million quid and then relying on money dripping in via IFollow on a game by game basis....

What is the answer? What do season ticket holders want the Club to do?
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« Reply #45 on: September 22, 2020, 13:08:23 pm »

Very worrying, and what's most worrying about it is that the government doesn't seem to understand the nature of the problems it's creating. Boris just answered a question about support packages for sports by saying his Secretary for Culture, Media and Sport was "already talking to the Premier League" about ways to keep football "on our screens". Roll Eyes As if they need any help with that. Meanwhile, Chesterfield's chairman has said that National League clubs have been blindsided by the announcement.

Yes, there's a 'support package' on the way but don't hold your breath that it will do anything other than increase the Premier League's stranglehold and chuck a few crumbs our way. Lots of clubs are going to go to the wall in the next six months.
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« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2020, 13:11:41 pm »

It's going to be emotive but I'm sure the majority of ST holders won't hound the club for refunds as that income may see us ride this out better than a lot of clubs. Almost everyone who would have bought one would have had the money to do so at the time, although there does need to be an appreciation that personal income could look very different by now and in the coming months.
You can argue whether any club should have sold ST's in light of the uncertainty of this season and could have sold them pro-rata for when the fans season started.

There'll be some legal eagles all over this around the country looking at this but I would imagine there'll be some legal entitlement to refunds if a service is not provided, regardless of small print. At the same time there have already been businesses trying to avoid this and ultimately if they go bust it doesn't really matter.
It may come down whether it is ethical to do so, especially when your football team is one of the most important businesses you want to survive. You'd expect to see some serious goodwill back towards these fans if/when things return to some normality.
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« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2020, 13:19:27 pm »

Very worrying, and what's most worrying about it is that the government doesn't seem to understand the nature of the problems it's creating. Boris just answered a question about support packages for sports by saying his Secretary for Culture, Media and Sport was "already talking to the Premier League" about ways to keep football "on our screens". Roll Eyes As if they need any help with that. Meanwhile, Chesterfield's chairman has said that National League clubs have been blindsided by the announcement.

Yes, there's a 'support package' on the way but don't hold your breath that it will do anything other than increase the Premier League's stranglehold and chuck a few crumbs our way. Lots of clubs are going to go to the wall in the next six months.

Thank goodness we have the Goode money. Let the football authorities sort out the issues arising. Football is awash with money at the top. Let it trickle down. It does not need other tax payer's subsidies.
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« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2020, 13:29:08 pm »

If it means we still have a club to support, they can keep my season ticket money...

Apparently the PL & EFL are meeting 4pm today to finally discuss a rescue package for lower league clubs...

Still don't think it will be enough to save all league clubs sadly  Cry
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« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2020, 13:31:54 pm »

Thank goodness we have the Goode money. Let the football authorities sort out the issues arising. Football is awash with money at the top. Let it trickle down. It does not need other tax payer's subsidies.

In an ideal world, yes, but the Premier League is not a charity and will rightly prioritise its own clubs. The government is imposing these conditions on Football League and non-league clubs, who are much more reliant on matchday incomes, so it should step up and support them along with other industries like hospitality, entertainment, tourism, aviation that are going to really suffer. But because of the wider public perception that football is 'awash with money' as you say, they've got an easy out when it comes to football specifically.

By the way, I'd be shocked if we've been paid all of the Goode money up front so I highly doubt we're sitting pretty on a £1m rainy day fund.
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« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2020, 13:33:01 pm »

It's going to be emotive but I'm sure the majority of ST holders won't hound the club for refunds as that income may see us ride this out better than a lot of clubs. Almost everyone who would have bought one would have had the money to do so at the time, although there does need to be an appreciation that personal income could look very different by now and in the coming months.
You can argue whether any club should have sold ST's in light of the uncertainty of this season and could have sold them pro-rata for when the fans season started.

There'll be some legal eagles all over this around the country looking at this but I would imagine there'll be some legal entitlement to refunds if a service is not provided, regardless of small print. At the same time there have already been businesses trying to avoid this and ultimately if they go bust it doesn't really matter.
It may come down whether it is ethical to do so, especially when your football team is one of the most important businesses you want to survive. You'd expect to see some serious goodwill back towards these fans if/when things return to some normality.


The classical music industry (and other sectors within Culture) have been hammered by Covid.

People like myself who subscribe to a significant number of performances a season (typically September to early July) have been offered;

1. Alter ticket purchase to pure donation (their preference of course).
2. Full Refund.
3. Partial Refund - stating how much and remainder as donation.
4. Defer refund to future seasons when Concert Halls are re-opened and set refund against future ticket purchases.

We've also been asked to make further donations to help out.

Depending on which organisation it is I've chosen 1, 2 and 4.

At the end of the day you have to take these decisions yourself based on your own resources, how much you care and how you believe it will impact on the organisations themselves.
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« Reply #51 on: September 22, 2020, 13:49:00 pm »

THERE ARE NO REFUNDS!
Buyer beware  Tongue
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« Reply #52 on: September 22, 2020, 14:08:09 pm »

If you bought a ST without kind of half expecting to not see games tuntil next year then you might be a bit silly.

Difficult situation for the clubs isn't it. Maybe the rescue package will help determine how they approach refunds.
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« Reply #53 on: September 22, 2020, 14:18:38 pm »

We bought our season tickets in the knowledge that we wouldn't initially get to attend games and with the possibility that would go on for a while.

The way I look at it though is you aren't just buying a ticket to the game, you are paying for the excitement of signing a new player, of following the ups and downs of the the league table, of the excitement of being at the top of the table or the jitters of being at the bottom end, of enjoying the banter and one-upmanship with your mates who support other clubs. There are a lot of elements to enjoy over a season and a lot of them don't take place from a seat in the stadium.

If we take our money back we diminish the likelihood of enjoying all those things as well as missing out on the in-person match day experience.
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« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2020, 14:24:38 pm »

We bought our season tickets in the knowledge that we wouldn't initially get to attend games and with the possibility that would go on for a while.

The way I look at it though is you aren't just buying a ticket to the game, you are paying for the excitement of signing a new player, of following the ups and downs of the the league table, of the excitement of being at the top of the table or the jitters of being at the bottom end, of enjoying the banter and one-upmanship with your mates who support other clubs. There are a lot of elements to enjoy over a season and a lot of them don't take place from a seat in the stadium.

If we take our money back we diminish the likelihood of enjoying all those things as well as missing out on the in-person match day experience.

Well said. It's protecting our way of life.
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« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2020, 15:12:18 pm »

We bought our season tickets in the knowledge that we wouldn't initially get to attend games and with the possibility that would go on for a while.

The way I look at it though is you aren't just buying a ticket to the game, you are paying for the excitement of signing a new player, of following the ups and downs of the the league table, of the excitement of being at the top of the table or the jitters of being at the bottom end, of enjoying the banter and one-upmanship with your mates who support other clubs. There are a lot of elements to enjoy over a season and a lot of them don't take place from a seat in the stadium.

If we take our money back we diminish the likelihood of enjoying all those things as well as missing out on the in-person match day experience.

Agree, unless your limited domestic budget doesn't justify funding 'overpaid' footballers when, especially in the current climate, you should be pushing your finite funds in a considerably more important direction. 
Not all of our supporters are in the same 'flush' financial situation as it appears that a number of you on here are.
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« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2020, 15:36:05 pm »

Agree, unless your limited domestic budget doesn't justify funding 'overpaid' footballers when, especially in the current climate, you should be pushing your finite funds in a considerably more important direction. 
Not all of our supporters are in the same 'flush' financial situation as it appears that a number of you on here are.

Understood and agreed, but surely if you couldn't afford it you wouldn't buy a season ticket in the first place? It's not something you'll ever see any sort of return on and it's not exactly up there on Maslow's hierarchy of human needs, is it?
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« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2020, 15:42:11 pm »

Agree, unless your limited domestic budget doesn't justify funding 'overpaid' footballers when, especially in the current climate, you should be pushing your finite funds in a considerably more important direction. 
Not all of our supporters are in the same 'flush' financial situation as it appears that a number of you on here are.

Spot on, Deepcut.

I have purchased a season ticket and my two sons have - close on a £1000 for three seats in the West stand. I didn't request a refund last year but why shouldn't I this year? I'm getting £10 back in return for ALL of us to watch it on IFollow together. Where's the financial gain in that??     
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« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2020, 15:53:36 pm »

Agree, unless your limited domestic budget doesn't justify funding 'overpaid' footballers when, especially in the current climate, you should be pushing your finite funds in a considerably more important direction. 
Not all of our supporters are in the same 'flush' financial situation as it appears that a number of you on here are.

As you might be aware I am not flush with funds but Manwork does inject a modicum of realism with his buyer beware slogan. I purchased my st in the knowledge that I might be very lucky to see 30% of home games. Surely our fanbase is not so naive to buy a st without taking into account the current situation?
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« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2020, 15:57:05 pm »

Understood and agreed, but surely if you couldn't afford it you wouldn't buy a season ticket in the first place? It's not something you'll ever see any sort of return on and it's not exactly up there on Maslow's hierarchy of human needs, is it?

We all make the effort, by doing without other things, to purchase something that we can't necessarily afford, if it's for something we want (house, car, ST?).
You don't make the same effort if you are receiving nothing in return (or donating to a charity), which makes it very difficult to justify to anyone else in your household that you are depriving by your nugatory expenditure.
Teachers Pet being a prime example.

You obviously have a financial fluidity situation that many others do not.
I am not a season ticket holder.
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