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CURLE OUT.

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bungle
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« Reply #180 on: November 28, 2020, 08:20:12 am »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.






 
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« Reply #181 on: November 28, 2020, 09:05:35 am »

The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.

I tend to agree with that through an unexpected promotion it almost feels like a free swing at league one this year and so I would give KC till at least the end of the year unless we get massively cut adrift.
Last year was a weird one, some great recruitment but some baffling team selections and substitutions. KC seemed unable to stop tinkering so often to the detriment of the team.
This year is very different, some poor recruitment and in my opinion one of the worst squads in the division but results if not performances have been a lot better than I’ve expected, so fair play to the players and manager for where we are right now. If we can stay up and regroup again then that will be an achievement.

 
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« Reply #182 on: November 28, 2020, 09:32:46 am »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.


Like this... Wink
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« Reply #183 on: November 28, 2020, 14:24:45 pm »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.






 

I wouldn't argue with any of that  Cool
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« Reply #184 on: November 28, 2020, 15:29:03 pm »

My minimum and medium expectations are to stay in this league.
My wildest dream is to finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing.
I seem to remember each time we got relegated from league one it was accompanied by a decent cup run so I'm not worried about that at all.
Every fan wants their team to develop home grown talent and that's perfectly natural but we've got to accept the best of the local youth are bound to be snapped up early by bigger fish. I agree it's important to keep a decent youth set up and not to worry if it doesn't produce the next Ivan Toney, it's a really good thing to do for the community in itself.
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« Reply #185 on: November 28, 2020, 20:14:35 pm »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.






 

Well said 👍👍
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« Reply #186 on: November 28, 2020, 21:02:21 pm »

Well said 👍👍

Agree with Bungle's somewhat eloquent essay. I do not have the equally eloquent desire of some on here to revert to a 'fancy Dan' style but a hanker after more direct style. We need at least one capable striker able to score, hold the ball/pass it; plus a midfielder to suit. The defence is beginning to settle as are the wing-backs. Would say that a side which is picked consistently will start to play more convincingly as time goes by. What I like is that we have been written off by the experts, friend and foe in equal measures so would love to stuff it up them!
 
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« Reply #187 on: November 29, 2020, 07:37:14 am »

Agree with Bungle's somewhat eloquent essay. I do not have the equally eloquent desire of some on here to revert to a 'fancy Dan' style but a hanker after more direct style. We need at least one capable striker able to score, hold the ball/pass it; plus a midfielder to suit. The defence is beginning to settle as are the wing-backs. Would say that a side which is picked consistently will start to play more convincingly as time goes by. What I like is that we have been written off by the experts, friend and foe in equal measures so would love to stuff it up them!
 

In terms of the personnel, if you disregard the know it alls like Shoey, we are all left with what can only amount to guess work around the budget and Curles choices. For me (guessing) it looks like he is trying to assemble a squad with a bit of a siege mentally. Only he knows why he is employing some of the more agricultural methods he is to get a tune out of the squad. Perhaps he does so off the back of what your last sentence states. That we were written off before we started. Often that can inspire a team.

We know that Curle has it within him to play attractive football. At this point I am cautiously optimistic about his ability to keep us up. If he does so, I am more than convinced that he will improve next season.
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« Reply #188 on: November 29, 2020, 08:35:05 am »

I currently work every other weekend, i bought a season ticket knowing this on the chance that when i did get to go id see some decent football having stepped up a league. Alas im not a happy clapper ,the quality is dire , averaging about 30-35% possession per game. and cant pass for toffee, luckily we have the return of holmes and McWilliams, that ,as i can see is our only hope of staying up. lose them we are in big trouble. Given that we are not getting our moneys worth as supporters with the dire i follow coverage , there is no chance i shall be renewing my season ticket next season if Curle is still here.
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« Reply #189 on: November 29, 2020, 08:51:35 am »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.


Great post. Agree with all of this.
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« Reply #190 on: November 29, 2020, 09:16:05 am »

I currently work every other weekend, i bought a season ticket knowing this on the chance that when i did get to go id see some decent football having stepped up a league. Alas im not a happy clapper ,the quality is dire , averaging about 30-35% possession per game. and cant pass for toffee, luckily we have the return of holmes and McWilliams, that ,as i can see is our only hope of staying up. lose them we are in big trouble. Given that we are not getting our moneys worth as supporters with the dire i follow coverage , there is no chance i shall be renewing my season ticket next season if Curle is still here.

 Grin Wink
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« Reply #191 on: November 29, 2020, 09:33:19 am »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.






 
Good well reasoned post bungle, I have to take issue with a couple of points,
1) when you posted this we were indeed 16th in the league, this as a completely false position as nearly all the teams below us have games in hand and as I write this we are 17th after Swindles win over Poxford, I fully expect us to drop another couple of positions once we have all played the same number of games.
2) if we loose a couple of our key players, Holmes or Sheehan for example we are in deep sh1t, the squad in nowhere near strong enough.
3) to say Curle is doing a decent job is IMO just not correct, the debacle at Oxford City, his bizarre substitutions and the general fitness of the team dropping deeper and deeper second half of games are big question marks for me.
IF KT give Curlio some money to spend in Jan, we need two or three L1 standard players, I think there is a chance we can finish outside of the bottom four, otherwise no chance.
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« Reply #192 on: November 29, 2020, 12:57:05 pm »

All things considered, I honestly think that Curle is doing a decent job. He arguably overachieved last year by delivering promotion and raking in substantial funds from the sale of Goode and the cup run. This year is about managing expectations. Here's what I would say are realistic targets:

Minimum expectation: stay in the league
Medium expectation: finish mid table and evolve the playing style - less hoofball, more passing. Develop the youngsters. Have a cup run.
Wildest dreams: sneak into the play-offs.

We currently sit 16th in the league. I would say that our performances in our 'mini-survival' league suggest that we are capable of surviving at this level, which would be an achievement in itself.

I would also argue that Keith is gradually learning that overly-direct football produces limited success at this level. He is starting slowly to mix it up a bit and incorporate a bit more passing; the introduction of Holmes has added some much-needed guile in midfield. It is also pleasing to see youngsters like Chucks and McWilliams getting some game time and development.


The style of play is still rarely easy on the eye. However, I'm not sure I would enjoy watching the ineffective tikka taka pass-to-death-before-powder-puff-finish approach of MK Dongs or Rochdale any more than I enjoy watching us. I think the best teams at this level know how to mix it up and combine direct play and crisp passing in order to pose a more unpredictable threat.

The main disappointments so far have been the FA Cup debacle, which was caused by an arrogant team selection, and the performance of the defence (we have conceded 23 goals, the third highest number in the division.) However, Curle has taken some positive steps to address this issue by signing Sheehan and we look a lot more solid with McWilliams screening the back three from midfield. I also actually think Bolger is better than people give him credit for.

Aside from Wilder and Stuart Gray, I would struggle to name many of our previous incumbents over the last 20-odd years who have done a more effective job than Keith. I can name a huge raft of managers who have been a damn sight worse, and I think people who call for his head should be extremely careful what they wish for. The big question for me is now: can he consolidate our status in this league for more than two seasons (something we've consistently failed to do over the last 30 years)? And: can he evolve the playing style into something a bit more sophisticated? Time will tell, but he's more than earned a sustained crack at it IMO.






 
Excellent post Bungle, pleasure to read Sir.
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« Reply #193 on: November 29, 2020, 12:59:48 pm »

Good well reasoned post bungle, I have to take issue with a couple of points,
1) when you posted this we were indeed 16th in the league, this as a completely false position as nearly all the teams below us have games in hand and as I write this we are 17th after Swindles win over Poxford, I fully expect us to drop another couple of positions once we have all played the same number of games.
2) if we loose a couple of our key players, Holmes or Sheehan for example we are in deep sh1t, the squad in nowhere near strong enough.
3) to say Curle is doing a decent job is IMO just not correct, the debacle at Oxford City, his bizarre substitutions and the general fitness of the team dropping deeper and deeper second half of games are big question marks for me.
IF KT give Curlio some money to spend in Jan, we need two or three L1 standard players, I think there is a chance we can finish outside of the bottom four, otherwise no chance.

As much as I want to back Curle. He can’t be allowed to get us in a position where relegation is inevitable. If he starts heading that way, he needs to go.
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« Reply #194 on: November 29, 2020, 15:34:40 pm »

I think we should stick with him even if we go down.
Good housekeeping is the priority.
Paying someone off if we go down can’t be in the financial plans during these challenging times
Loads of posters on here state that just having a club is good enough.
Therefore let’s not get fixated on what division we are in and let’s stick with Keith  Evil
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« Reply #195 on: November 29, 2020, 16:28:22 pm »

As much as I want to back Curle. He can’t be allowed to get us in a position where relegation is inevitable. If he starts heading that way, he needs to go.
I think this will be KTs mindset too mate and it’s pretty hard to disagree with.
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« Reply #196 on: November 29, 2020, 18:28:45 pm »

I think we should stick with him even if we go down.Noyou don't. Angry
Good housekeeping is the priority.Yes, even if it means losing to non league teams in the cup, not like clubs that speculate to accumulate, like the P*sh Evil
Paying someone off if we go down can’t be in the financial plans during these challenging timesTrue Smiley
Loads of posters on here state that just having a club is good enough.Most posters say survival of the club in the current climate is enough and they would be very happy to survive in League1. Smiley
Therefore let’s not get fixated on what division we are in and let’s stick with Keith  EvilAt the moment that's sensible. Wink
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« Reply #197 on: November 29, 2020, 20:04:47 pm »

My issue with replacing managers has always been the same, a clear plan and strategy regarding who and what comes next? If it was my decision I would like a candidate who has a proven track record of building a squad from scratch at this level. Definitely a promotion or 2 and a use of tactics that promote exciting football. No obvious failures or justified sackings at this level would be preferable with a hunger and desire to succeed? In addition there would need to be a budget to support such an appointment in terms of their salary, length of contract and to develop and mould the squad to achieve the desired result, otherwise what’s the point? On the other hand use the plan most adopt on here which is to kick out the current manager 3 months into a season after a promotion in some knee jerk ill thought out petulant reaction and worry about all that b0ll0ks once they’ve been shown the door? Brilliant!
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« Reply #198 on: November 29, 2020, 20:16:46 pm »

I think this will be KTs mindset too mate and it’s pretty hard to disagree with.

The manager isn't the problem, it's the money - or lack of. Sacking KC will give the next poor chap even less money for players and the inevitable spiral of decline will continue. It's a miracle Curle got us promoted and it wasn't in the plan, we were supposed to tread water in League 2 while they sorted out the finances.
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« Reply #199 on: November 29, 2020, 21:49:40 pm »

The manager isn't the problem, it's the money - or lack of.

Someone should tell Accrington Stanley, they seem to be doing ok with much less money than we have.
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