CURLE OUT.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

You dont think KC will see Holmes honesty in front of the press (still haven't heard it) as a 'mistake' in the same way he did Mitchells kick which gave possession back to the opposition leading to a goal and drop him tomorrow?
He also took both Holmes and Adam's off on 60 mins on Saturday, how much of that was tactical and how much of that was down to what was spoken at halftime?
I seruously hope not but I wouldn't be surprised if Curle backed himself over Holmes (and to a lesser extent Adams) and starts by dropping him tomorrow.

Yes, but I would also assume that Holmes has assessed that he is relatively 'safe' by virtue of him making those comments?
We don't know, but future selections and performances may provide some indication?

[everbrite]

You dont think KC will see Holmes honesty in front of the press (still haven't heard it) as a 'mistake' in the same way he did Mitchells kick which gave possession back to the opposition leading to a goal and drop him tomorrow?
He also took both Holmes and Adam's off on 60 mins on Saturday, how much of that was tactical and how much of that was down to what was spoken at halftime?
I seruously hope not but I wouldn't be surprised if Curle backed himself over Holmes (and to a lesser extent Adams) and starts by dropping him tomorrow.

Ref the insinuations; at the moment cannot see anything to back up your message so you might be right who knows. Did you have time to read Teachers message which was posted over 5 mins before yours?

[guest3338]

Yes, but I would also assume that Holmes has assessed that he is relatively 'safe' by virtue of him making those comments?
We don't know, but future selections and performances may provide some indication?

Possibly, and they will indeed.
As said, I've not heard the interview, i was going off an assumption that Ricky was being critical of KC when describing the way we've been playing like he did.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Possibly, and they will indeed.
As said, I've not heard the interview, i was going off an assumption that Ricky was being critical of KC when describing the way we've been playing like he did.

I haven't heard it either, I'm going from the interview(s) in the Chronic.

[everbrite]

Of course, many clubs experience that new manager "bounce".... keeping it going is the hard thing!

Back to your post itself, acceptable performance for me would be an improvement in results (not that much, I don't think we'll win every game!) but an improvement in the style of play and the tactics used. For me, these are more important than the results we have been getting! I personally don't think the results would be worse if we had a new man at the helm.

This is where we differ ' For me, these are more important than the results we have been getting!
I am not too concerned about the style of play provided we win enough to stay in L1. It's when we lose too often then I get nervous. Not everybody is a perfectionist and after supporting the Cobblers since at school where I was referred to as that oink from Northampton I just cannot bring myself to abandon the Club/Management when things go awry. You have to remember that the 'newish' supporters have yet to experiences the year/year on multiple disappointments with the occasional highlights. Whilst you deplore the style of play some of the older Fans may argue 'what's new or changed'! Hope you appreciate a different viewpoint!

[Deepcut Cobbler]

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/curle-responds-criticism-his-style-play-and-reveals-long-term-plan-evolve-cobblers-philosophy-3066901

[MunchyMagic]

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/curle-responds-criticism-his-style-play-and-reveals-long-term-plan-evolve-cobblers-philosophy-3066901

That was a good read, I enjoyed that.

I was always getting into bother for defending Keith on the Carlisle board so here I go again 

When Keith took us over we were cast adrift at the bottom of League Two looking well and truly finished with a squad that many a supporter would agree to being the worst Carlisle United team they had ever seen, in comes Keith and we are still rubbish but he brings in his pal Derek Asamoah and I don't know how but we managed to scrape enough points together to avoid going down to to non-league level, properly saved us then he was allowed to build his own team and as I have previously mentioned we never got promotion but he turned us into contenders on a yearly basis.

This however was not enough for some fans and they were split, you got the regular 'Curle has never won a promotion and never will' brigade to the more appreciative fan like myself who enjoyed being in the thick of promotion chasing rather than scrapping about at the bottom of the league, it was a no brainer in my eyes.

When Keith's contract ran out he was offered a new one which he turned down, this could have been a really low offer so the club would say 'look we wanted him to stay' but the general feeling was that they wanted shot of him and his budget would have been drastically cut, had he stayed I think that he would have been living on borrowed time in the job so he left with his stocks still relatively high and was in a rare position for a manager to get a standing ovation after the final game as a manager is normally sacked or leaves acrimoniously so it was a little strange.

Another thing that split fans was that Curle was constantly on the radio or the tv giving opinions on various things and many Carlisle United supporter thought that he was bigging himself up looking for a better role - again this never bothered me as for Curle to have left Carlisle then we would have got money for him as he was under contract and just as important was that for anyone to actually want him we would have to be flying high in the league and doing well.

It was no surprise that after Curle, with a few tweaks Sheridan took us instantly to the top but did his normal thing and left abruptly, but the players were mainly the quality that Curle brought in that he was using - this is when the problems started when they brought in Pressley to 'build his own squad' and fast forward less than a year and we are scrapping around at the bottom of League 2 looking for a 'Keith Curle type' to come and save us.

With your recent promotion Curle has proved that he has got more in his cannon than a reliable manager to bring in if anyone is struggling with relegation issues but reading that interview with him he has stayed with his tinkerman methods and this will be his making or his downfall and he knows this, it drove our fans crackers when he would disrupt the team that won the last game when we were on a run and we would lose but you also forget that during this run he was doing the same thing changing things but it didn't matter because we were winning, he will rarely tell you how badly a player is injured and how long they will be out but this is common practice with some managers so as not to tip off leaking the team to the opposing manager.

Definitely an interesting bloke, one of his best qualities is that he endears himself to the fans and has all the time in the world for the supporters - he was getting a bit of stick from some of ours and so he invited them down to the ground for a bit of a crack and they came away with nothing bad to say about him - there was some bloke though that had his leg knee down in a massive tattoo of Keith - going a bit too far that though for example  

[west stand oap]

Personally I have nothing against a manager changing a winning team as the team you have just beaten may have a totally different style of play to your next opponents. I would rather have the manager select a team he feels is best suited to get a positive result from the next match.

[everbrite]

That was a good read, I enjoyed that.

I was always getting into bother for defending Keith on the Carlisle board so here I go again 

When Keith took us over we were cast adrift at the bottom of League Two looking well and truly finished with a squad that many a supporter would agree to being the worst Carlisle United team they had ever seen, in comes Keith and we are still rubbish but he brings in his pal Derek Asamoah and I don't know how but we managed to scrape enough points together to avoid going down to to non-league level, properly saved us then he was allowed to build his own team and as I have previously mentioned we never got promotion but he turned us into contenders on a yearly basis.

This however was not enough for some fans and they were split, you got the regular 'Curle has never won a promotion and never will' brigade to the more appreciative fan like myself who enjoyed being in the thick of promotion chasing rather than scrapping about at the bottom of the league, it was a no brainer in my eyes.

When Keith's contract ran out he was offered a new one which he turned down, this could have been a really low offer so the club would say 'look we wanted him to stay' but the general feeling was that they wanted shot of him and his budget would have been drastically cut, had he stayed I think that he would have been living on borrowed time in the job so he left with his stocks still relatively high and was in a rare position for a manager to get a standing ovation after the final game as a manager is normally sacked or leaves acrimoniously so it was a little strange.

Another thing that split fans was that Curle was constantly on the radio or the tv giving opinions on various things and many Carlisle United supporter thought that he was bigging himself up looking for a better role - again this never bothered me as for Curle to have left Carlisle then we would have got money for him as he was under contract and just as important was that for anyone to actually want him we would have to be flying high in the league and doing well.

It was no surprise that after Curle, with a few tweaks Sheridan took us instantly to the top but did his normal thing and left abruptly, but the players were mainly the quality that Curle brought in that he was using - this is when the problems started when they brought in Pressley to 'build his own squad' and fast forward less than a year and we are scrapping around at the bottom of League 2 looking for a 'Keith Curle type' to come and save us.

With your recent promotion Curle has proved that he has got more in his cannon than a reliable manager to bring in if anyone is struggling with relegation issues but reading that interview with him he has stayed with his tinkerman methods and this will be his making or his downfall and he knows this, it drove our fans crackers when he would disrupt the team that won the last game when we were on a run and we would lose but you also forget that during this run he was doing the same thing changing things but it didn't matter because we were winning, he will rarely tell you how badly a player is injured and how long they will be out but this is common practice with some managers so as not to tip off leaking the team to the opposing manager.

Definitely an interesting bloke, one of his best qualities is that he endears himself to the fans and has all the time in the world for the supporters - he was getting a bit of stick from some of ours and so he invited them down to the ground for a bit of a crack and they came away with nothing bad to say about him - there was some bloke though that had his leg knee down in a massive tattoo of Keith - going a bit too far that though for example  

Currently Munchy on this Board there a few who just cannot stand him as does not play in a way to suit fancy Dan(no pun intended) play. The fact we have not got sufficient quality onboard is ignored and we are endlessly compared with the likes of Accrington Stanley. He is blamed for every ill that falls upon us. The majority of fans just hope we stay in L1 this season and sod the flowing football scene. A few big hitters would rather see us lose but play so 'jolly' well. Nuts to that!  Has Northampton ever been known for fancy Dan football! Should imagine about a total of 2/3 years from 1970. Generall we thrive on a solid defence and competent midfielders plus a decent striker.
but play really well in doing so.

[Coolcat]

Currently Munchy on this Board there a few who just cannot stand him as does not play in a way to suit fancy Dan(no pun intended) play. The fact we have not got sufficient quality onboard is ignored and we are endlessly compared with the likes of Accrington Stanley. He is blamed for every ill that falls upon us. The majority of fans just hope we stay in L1 this season and sod the flowing football scene. A few big hitters would rather see us lose but play so 'jolly' well. Nuts to that!  Has Northampton ever been known for fancy Dan football! Should imagine about a total of 2/3 years from 1970. Generall we thrive on a solid defence and competent midfielders plus a decent striker.
but play really well in doing so.

How come I didn't get a cryptic mention? 

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Labouring the point a bit, granted, but I think you will find Munchys post is fairly typical of the impact football clubs achieve when changing managers. Since Keith Curle, Carlisle have failed to improve their standing. Even the current manager Chris Beech is behind Keith Curle on win ratios (38.2 vrs 37.78). What do you imagine the financial impact of all those managerial changes have been with regards to changing the squad, the instability it brings, I could go on and on, and apparently am? What I am trying to repeatedly emphasise is that any change will statistically get the opposite effect to the desired one? What this also means is a change in players and those players will invariably be a lower standard than you would like because you don’t have the budget and the downward spiral starts. If you have to fire a manager then at least set some clearly defined failure standards and have a clear criteria for the manager you want to bring in? However, giving all this and understanding that getting rid of a manager rarely works, firing a bloke on a whim because we are a bit boring 17 league games after a promotion is absolute b0ll0cks. I challenge anyone on here to come up with the aforementioned failure standards and a reasonable recruitment criteria for an available manager that currently comes up with a conclusion that gets anywhere near justifying removing Curle? I tell you in advance, don’t bother because you won’t manage it? As I said it’s there’s no denying that performances on the pitch are important, but changing managers on the back of “it’s currently a bit boring” is just plain bonkers. It wasn’t boring a Wembley a couple of months ago was it? And please remember this is all taking place in the current context of the financial impact of Covid. FFS get a grip will you, what’s being suggested by many on here currently makes absolutely no sense on any conceivable level? That may change but at the moment it doesn’t? If I am wrong then come up with a reasonable case along the lines I have suggested, but you won’t because you can’t? Anyway, there’s no point me continually banging on about it, learn the hard way if you must?

[Welly Cobb]

Hmm. I don't think the majority of cobblers supporters would take Curle's football if it meant winning at all costs in all honestly, but imagine there's a lot in the middle who aren't best pleased with it but are somewhat understanding of the restrictions we're under at the moment.

I'd say that it's probably no worse that Hasselbaink, or Edinburgh, or Rob Page or the second year of Stuart Gray - it's definitely not good to watch, but I'm not exactly expecting that it was going to be good either as we do not do well in League 1 and never have.

[Bosco_Jancovic]

Mr.Curle in.

He is a good manager.

You people on here are softheads.

[everbrite]

How come I didn't get a cryptic mention? 

Once read that cryptic comments cause distress, confusion, and above all misunderstandings; so trying to pack it up.

[Bosco_Jancovic]

Labouring the point a bit...... learn the hard way if you must?

Mr.Cobbler.You are deep thinker.

Mr.Curles teams always play good football.

Difference at NTFC?

Survival.

Softheads here do not see money.Donot see players fit.Do not see players problems.

Softheads here all big bully fatbellies with no brain.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Hmm. I don't think the majority of cobblers supporters would take Curle's football if it meant winning at all costs in all honestly, but imagine there's a lot in the middle who aren't best pleased with it but are somewhat understanding of the restrictions we're under at the moment.

I'd say that it's probably no worse that Hasselbaink, or Edinburgh, or Rob Page or the second year of Stuart Gray - it's definitely not good to watch, but I'm not exactly expecting that it was going to be good either as we do not do well in League 1 and never have.

Not having a go Welly but “probably no worse than Hasselbaink”? Curle won promotion for us last season and has a win ratio of 40%. Hasselbaink won nothing, failed to win any of his last nine games in charge and had us in the relegation zone with a total win ratio of 23.8%. Curle is not not worse than or even equal to Hasselbaink by any reasonable measure I can come up with? However if you can come up with some evidence beyond subjective opinion to contradict this then I’ll be the first to retract all of this? Apologies if I come across as frustrated, but when is someone going to come up with a convincing argument for a sacking in this debate?

[guest3338]

Not having a go Welly but “probably no worse than Hasselbaink”? Curle won promotion for us last season and has a win ratio of 40%. Hasselbaink won nothing, failed to win any of his last nine games in charge and had us in the relegation zone with a total win ratio of 23.8%. Curle is not not worse than or even equal to Hasselbaink by any reasonable measure I can come up with? However if you can come up with some evidence beyond subjective opinion to contradict this then I’ll be the first to retract all of this? Apologies if I come across as frustrated, but when is someone going to come up with a convincing argument for a sacking in this debate?

Maybe some of those who are calling for Curle to go are frustrated because they believe we can play a better more attractive type of football with the players we have AND achieve better results? I assume Curle sets us up to play the way we do because he believes this is our best shot at gaining points and staying in the division.
Me? I dont know, but I am frustrated he doesnt seem to allow the players to take it to the opposition a little more.
Holmes, Marshall, Adams, Rose, Chuk, Sowerby, Missilou, Watson, Harriman, Sheehan, Bolger, and Mills when fit, I think are all good enough to offer us an alternative playing style. Some of the others like Horsefall have also put in better performances recently. Curle seems like a likeable fella to me and deserves respect because of what he's done in the game but it's his tactics I think that many question.
You might argue  we have been 'unlucky' with bookings and sendings off recently, so that will limit options, but there is no doubt tonight is a big game.

[Welly Cobb]

Not having a go Welly but “probably no worse than Hasselbaink”? Curle won promotion for us last season and has a win ratio of 40%. Hasselbaink won nothing, failed to win any of his last nine games in charge and had us in the relegation zone with a total win ratio of 23.8%. Curle is not not worse than or even equal to Hasselbaink by any reasonable measure I can come up with? However if you can come up with some evidence beyond subjective opinion to contradict this then I’ll be the first to retract all of this? Apologies if I come across as frustrated, but when is someone going to come up with a convincing argument for a sacking in this debate?

Well, I'm not advocating for his sacking if it helps, I just can understand why people would start to be, and i'm not 100% convinced the majority of cobblers fans are still behind him. Curles 40%+ win rate puts him down as one of the more succesful managers in our history, which is important context, but that looks a lot less successful if we're looking at the League 1 level results alone that the other managers listed were also charged with facing. I don't personally think hes doing a job anywhere near as poor Hasselbaink did, as he half the budget and missing a lot of the talent Jimmy had to play with... but the results aren't a lot better and I think five or so games in a row with sub 35% possession (admittedly with 10 men for a bulk of it) at the moment doesnt elevate him above the others named at cutting it at League. He's not doing a worse job either though, which was the point I was originally trying to make.

[everbrite]

Well, I'm not advocating for his sacking if it helps, I just can understand why people would start to be, and i'm not 100% convinced the majority of cobblers fans are still behind him. Curles 40%+ win rate puts him down as one of the more succesful managers in our history, which is important context, but that looks a lot less successful if we're looking at the League 1 level results alone that the other managers listed were also charged with facing. I don't personally think hes doing a job anywhere near as poor Hasselbaink did, as he half the budget and missing a lot of the talent Jimmy had to play with... but the results aren't a lot better and I think five or so games in a row with sub 35% possession (admittedly with 10 men for a bulk of it) at the moment doesnt elevate him above the others named at cutting it at League. He's not doing a worse job either though, which was the point I was originally trying to make.

Do a poll then? After the Saturday game?

[crazycobbler]

Labouring the point a bit, granted, but I think you will find Munchys post is fairly typical of the impact football clubs achieve when changing managers. Since Keith Curle, Carlisle have failed to improve their standing. Even the current manager Chris Beech is behind Keith Curle on win ratios (38.2 vrs 37.78). What do you imagine the financial impact of all those managerial changes have been with regards to changing the squad, the instability it brings, I could go on and on, and apparently am? What I am trying to repeatedly emphasise is that any change will statistically get the opposite effect to the desired one? What this also means is a change in players and those players will invariably be a lower standard than you would like because you don’t have the budget and the downward spiral starts. If you have to fire a manager then at least set some clearly defined failure standards and have a clear criteria for the manager you want to bring in? However, giving all this and understanding that getting rid of a manager rarely works, firing a bloke on a whim because we are a bit boring 17 league games after a promotion is absolute b0ll0cks. I challenge anyone on here to come up with the aforementioned failure standards and a reasonable recruitment criteria for an available manager that currently comes up with a conclusion that gets anywhere near justifying removing Curle? I tell you in advance, don’t bother because you won’t manage it? As I said it’s there’s no denying that performances on the pitch are important, but changing managers on the back of “it’s currently a bit boring” is just plain bonkers. It wasn’t boring a Wembley a couple of months ago was it? And please remember this is all taking place in the current context of the financial impact of Covid. FFS get a grip will you, what’s being suggested by many on here currently makes absolutely no sense on any conceivable level? That may change but at the moment it doesn’t? If I am wrong then come up with a reasonable case along the lines I have suggested, but you won’t because you can’t? Anyway, there’s no point me continually banging on about it, learn the hard way if you must?

Spot on.