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New Trust statement on club finances

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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2021, 16:50:39 pm »

Can someone put the statement in to a dumbed down version for the general public to understand?

Whilst I don't doubt that a few will understand why (and what at) fingers are being pointed, does the Trust honestly think that the majority of the supporter base will even bother reading through that, let alone understand it?

I'll have a go as I like dumbed down!!

Ref the debt..... £6.5-7M and counting, owed to DB and KT

Ref the stand.... KT trying to reach agreement with the Council for the land sales (freehold from Council to CDNL), Council willing to talk when the East Stand is finished. Club willing to commit £3m in spending to finish the stand on agreement that the £3m comes back from the first land sale. Upshot, short term Club debt increases to £10m.
No Council deal no stand....no stand, no council deal....same impasse as for the last few years.

Ref 5USports...... Club stated "partnership" which saw 5U take a 60% stake in the Clubs owning holding company (Northampton Town Ventures which was owned by Fantastical Limited....a UK Registered entity) It is believed that KT/DB actually sold 100% of the holding company to 5U in two transactions.60% first and then 40% followed, the second one never reported (the second sale triggered David Bower resigning from the Board of Directors of NT Ventures as in effect he'd sold up).  The money due to UK owned Fantastical never appeared on any of their filed accounts. However that money did go to off shore British Virgin Islands based Belle-De-Jour.... 4.4m to BDJ and 1.1m to KT and 1.1m to DB personally.

When the Chinese put a stop to their state's companies making overseas investment in this way there was no "further money" coming from 5USports, this should have been the money which went to on-the-pitch progress such as higher wage bills and transfer monies.

As a result of no money forthcoming B-D-J took out a mortgage on the club with the security/charge being the shares they'd sold previously....the loan was not repaid and the shares transferred back to KT and DB for £1.1m (the sum of the loan), The Chinese disappeared, the club was back in KT and DB hands again. At the time reports stated that KT and DB had "reacquired" the shares.

The amount of the debt owed by the club now to DB and KT is roughly the same as the amount of money paid by 5USports to acquire the holding company of the Football Club.
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« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2021, 16:58:49 pm »

So the big reveal was stuff we already knew....shock.
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The Rauldinho
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« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2021, 17:08:50 pm »

I'll have a go as I like dumbed down!!
Ref the debt..... £6.5-7M and counting, owed to DB and KT
Ref the stand.... KT trying to reach agreement with the Council for the land sales (freehold from Council to CDNL), Council willing to talk when the East Stand is finished. Club willing to commit £3m in spending to finish the stand on agreement that the £3m comes back from the first land sale. Upshot, short term Club debt increases to £10m.
No Council deal no stand....no stand, no council deal....same impasse as for the last few years.
Ref 5USports...... Club stated "partnership" which saw 5U take a 60% stake in the Clubs owning holding company (Northampton Town Ventures which was owned by Fantastical Limited....a UK Registered entity) It is believed that KT/DB actually sold 100% of the holding company to 5U in two transactions.60% first and then 40% followed, the second one never reported (the second sale triggered David Bower resigning from the Board of Directors of NT Ventures as in effect he'd sold up).  The money due to UK owned Fantastical never appeared on any of their filed accounts. However that money did go to off shore British Virgin Islands based Belle-De-Jour.... 4.4m to BDJ and 1.1m to KT and 1.1m to DB personally.
When the Chinese put a stop to their state's companies making overseas investment in this way there was no "further money" coming from 5USports, this should have been the money which went to on-the-pitch progress such as higher wage bills and transfer monies.
As a result of no money forthcoming B-D-J took out a mortgage on the club with the security/charge being the shares they'd sold previously....the loan was not repaid and the shares transferred back to KT and DB for £1.1m (the sum of the loan), The Chinese disappeared, the club was back in KT and DB hands again. At the time reports stated that KT and DB had "reacquired" the shares.
The amount of the debt owed by the club now to DB and KT is roughly the same as the amount of money paid by 5USports to acquire the holding company of the Football Club.

Get the Trust to post your version instead, you will probably get a better response from the fanbase!  Grin

On a serious note, opinion still seems to be split online between "Trust Agenda" and "Dodgy Owner Agenda" so fail to see how this will help the club moving forward.
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« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2021, 17:15:51 pm »

Not sure why the trust didnt finish with a summary of their findings ..... i suspect it wasnt included as they wanted people to guess.

After reading it I'm still trying to work out what they were trying to say.   I can only assume it was good and they are finally backing KT and DB for putting up the cash to enable the East to be finished, so they can profit from the land and the club becomes debt free ??

That being the case im sure we would have all taken that when DC sold up
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« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2021, 17:19:03 pm »

Did the Chinese get their money back or did KT and DB pocket it? Is Belle de Jour accountable in any way or is it hidden away from everybody forever? If the latter, why? Is the club seriously losing a million a year just to stand still? Contrary to what a lot of people say on here I certainly didn't know all this so it is of value to set it out in my opinion and does it seriously not worry folk?
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2021, 17:21:08 pm »

Get the Trust to post your version instead, you will probably get a better response from the fanbase!  Grin

On a serious note, opinion still seems to be split online between "Trust Agenda" and "Dodgy Owner Agenda" so fail to see how this will help the club moving forward.

The Trust "agenda" as you call it is that it has concerns that the deal on the table with the Council is not the best for the club. I suppose the other half of the agenda (exploring fan owned options) is in case this whole thing goes sour. As I said, no council deal = no stand = no land = big debt unpayable.

I get that most people are tired of this now, and if all they want is a "finished" East Stand with some boxes and a total stadium capacity of 8040 then fair enough.....but the big opportunity for the club to develop...the Conference Centre, the hotel, the rest of the 24/7 operation seems to have fallen by the wayside. So what next?
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« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2021, 17:39:23 pm »

The Trust "agenda" as you call it is that it has concerns that the deal on the table with the Council is not the best for the club. I suppose the other half of the agenda (exploring fan owned options) is in case this whole thing goes sour. As I said, no council deal = no stand = no land = big debt unpayable.

I get that most people are tired of this now, and if all they want is a "finished" East Stand with some boxes and a total stadium capacity of 8040 then fair enough.....but the big opportunity for the club to develop...the Conference Centre, the hotel, the rest of the 24/7 operation seems to have fallen by the wayside. So what next?

Was all this actually ever promised by KT/DB? Thought this was all promised under the Cardoza reign, before they "lost" 10.25 million quid (with a trust member on the board at the time)

Thought KT/DB only ever promised a finished East Stand and a more sustainable club....

What do the trust expect to happen releasing this latest statement?...on today of all days with an England quarter final to look forward to Roll Eyes

The trust never put anything to their members before releasing these statements, yet are supposed to represent them.

Like most, I'm sick or all this he said she said bulls#it, and can't see happy ending either way for the supporters.

The trust had an opportunity to work with the club moving forward but that's now completely gone for good.

Sad times for the most important people associated to the club...it's supporters!

« Last Edit: July 03, 2021, 17:41:10 pm by Ragdoll Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2021, 17:41:03 pm »

Letís wake up folks
An 8,000 seater stadium

Mind blowing !!!

Is there actually a need to redevelop if itís only going to be 8000 capacity

A redevelopment  Grin Grin Grin

You could just stick the seats back in the east and put in a temporary Meccano stand in the corner
Voila

This current redevelopment will surely go down as the one that takes the club to the next levelÖÖ

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« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2021, 18:05:16 pm »

Was all this actually ever promised by KT/DB? Thought this was all promised under the Cardoza reign, before they "lost" 10.25 million quid (with a trust member on the board at the time)

Thought KT/DB only ever promised a finished East Stand and a more sustainable club....

What do the trust expect to happen releasing this latest statement?...on today of all days with an England quarter final to look forward to Roll Eyes

The trust never put anything to their members before releasing these statements, yet are supposed to represent them.

Like most, I'm sick or all this he said she said bulls#it, and can't see happy ending either way for the supporters.

The trust had an opportunity to work with the club moving forward but that's now completely gone for good.

Sad times for the most important people associated to the club...it's supporters!



Whether it was promised by this regime or the last, the fact remains that the land was supposed to be the clubs golden egg...... does anyone actually think that's going to be the case with what is currently proposed?

If only the Football Club was about the football, instead of the Football Club playing second fiddle to some land deal.
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Ragdoll Cobbler
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« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2021, 18:22:10 pm »

Whether it was promised by this regime or the last, the fact remains that the land was supposed to be the clubs golden egg...... does anyone actually think that's going to be the case with what is currently proposed?

If only the Football Club was about the football, instead of the Football Club playing second fiddle to some land deal.

Agree, but wasn't the land tied up with dodgey leases created by the Cardoza's, which KT/DB eventually sorted out after years of red tape?

Who else was prepared to buy the club at the time?

These public spats ain't helping anyone...

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« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2021, 18:52:35 pm »

The Trust "agenda" as you call it is that it has concerns that the deal on the table with the Council is not the best for the club. I suppose the other half of the agenda (exploring fan owned options) is in case this whole thing goes sour. As I said, no council deal = no stand = no land = big debt unpayable.

I get that most people are tired of this now, and if all they want is a "finished" East Stand with some boxes and a total stadium capacity of 8040 then fair enough.....but the big opportunity for the club to develop...the Conference Centre, the hotel, the rest of the 24/7 operation seems to have fallen by the wayside. So what next?

Just to be clear, it's not me calling it an agenda but a good percentage of posters on here and the replies on social media to both the Trusts own posts and others sharing it (from what I have seen).

I'm somewhere on the fence, unless someone categorically proves that KT/DB are the root of all evil then I think we do have to accept that the land deal is what will wipe out the debt we owe them. Otherwise it could be very difficult to have a club at all.

In terms of the Trust, they are said to be representing the wider support base and consulting the fans on these issues but I see little of that to be honest. They have a massive role to play for the club, I think they have just lost sight of this lately. Hopefully things will change and they can get the majority of the fanbase (members or not) back behind them.
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« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2021, 18:57:47 pm »

Whether it was promised by this regime or the last, the fact remains that the land was supposed to be the clubs golden egg...... does anyone actually think that's going to be the case with what is currently proposed?

If only the Football Club was about the football, instead of the Football Club playing second fiddle to some land deal.
Spot on
Ten years agoÖ..

Fact is that the 8000 redevelopment is actually a decade out of date.

Who in this day and age redevelops hoping to have a capacity of 8,000 ??
No one

Most start with more than 8,000 nowadays and I think thatís something the council should bare in mind.
What may have been acceptable a decade ago is frankly well behind the times now.
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« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2021, 19:30:43 pm »

As it stands if I won the Euromillions and decided to buy the club based on how they have presented themselves recently I would not even let a trust representative through the front door.
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« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2021, 19:34:24 pm »

The Trust "agenda" as you call it is that it has concerns that the deal on the table with the Council is not the best for the club. I suppose the other half of the agenda (exploring fan owned options) is in case this whole thing goes sour. As I said, no council deal = no stand = no land = big debt unpayable.

I get that most people are tired of this now, and if all they want is a "finished" East Stand with some boxes and a total stadium capacity of 8040 then fair enough.....but the big opportunity for the club to develop...the Conference Centre, the hotel, the rest of the 24/7 operation seems to have fallen by the wayside. So what next?

So to summarise, the trust want:

The East stand finished to a "good" standard.  An Increased capacity.  Conference centre, hotel etc.  An expansion to the South and North Stands.  An improved playing budget contributing to a side that is capable of maintaining league one football eventually pushing for the Championship.  Add in a better youth setup where the first team is built mainly on good young prospects.    

Oh and we want to own our own training ground with much better facilities than we have currently.

In addition we don't like private ownership, in particular you Kelvin and David.  Oh and we don't like land deals unless you build a velodrome, swimming pool....but we are happy to break this principled stance if you are willing to commit to funding all of the above requirements from it.  You can make a small profit evetually if there is anything left over but don't make it too big and if you could pay for everything up front that would be great.  Oh to add, In the meantime we want no club debt, irrespective if you have to sack a manager, sign dud players, have a global pandemic and we want the club run on a break even basis....don't forget to get us promoted.  We would also like you to write off all £6 Million + of the loans you have made to the club as gifts.

Can we also be given a seat on the board so we can tell you how badly you run the club face to face at board meetings rather than via monthly statements on our website.  Eventually you can sell the club to us for the £1 you bought it for and we will take it from there.

I should warn you that while all this is ongoing we will continue to publicly insinuate you are unfit owners and call you out at every opportunity suggesting many ways in which you are failing as a club without offering any alternatives that will actually work without the whole English footballing structure being torn down and rebuilt from scratch.  Also known as the Bundesliga 50+1 method.

Good luck, let us know when you have done all that we have the £1 ready and waiting.  In fact thinking about it you still owe us £10k from when we paid the staff so you can pay us £9999 to take it off your hands.

.....you'd like to think I was joking here wouldn't you?
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« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2021, 19:51:12 pm »

Think you have summed it up well there MCHammer.
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« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2021, 19:53:37 pm »

So to summarise, the trust want:

The East stand finished to a "good" standard.  An Increased capacity.  Conference centre, hotel etc.  An expansion to the South and North Stands.  An improved playing budget contributing to a side that is capable of maintaining league one football eventually pushing for the Championship.  Add in a better youth setup where the first team is built mainly on good young prospects.    

Oh and we want to own our own training ground with much better facilities than we have currently.

In addition we don't like private ownership, in particular you Kelvin and David.  Oh and we don't like land deals unless you build a velodrome, swimming pool....but we are happy to break this principled stance if you are willing to commit to funding all of the above requirements from it.  You can make a small profit evetually if there is anything left over but don't make it too big and if you could pay for everything up front that would be great.  Oh to add, In the meantime we want no club debt, irrespective if you have to sack a manager, sign dud players, have a global pandemic and we want the club run on a break even basis....don't forget to get us promoted.  We would also like you to write off all £6 Million + of the loans you have made to the club as gifts.

Can we also be given a seat on the board so we can tell you how badly you run the club face to face at board meetings rather than via monthly statements on our website.  Eventually you can sell the club to us for the £1 you bought it for and we will take it from there.

I should warn you that while all this is ongoing we will continue to publicly insinuate you are unfit owners and call you out at every opportunity suggesting many ways in which you are failing as a club without offering any alternatives that will actually work without the whole English footballing structure being torn down and rebuilt from scratch.  Also known as the Bundesliga 50+1 method.

Good luck, let us know when you have done all that we have the £1 ready and waiting.  In fact thinking about it you still owe us £10k from when we paid the staff so you can pay us £9999 to take it off your hands.

.....you'd like to think I was joking here wouldn't you?

Great post...

Absolutely how most supporters (trust members or otherwise!) see things...
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« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2021, 19:53:57 pm »

So to summarise, the trust want:

The East stand finished to a "good" standard.  An Increased capacity.  Conference centre, hotel etc.  An expansion to the South and North Stands.  An improved playing budget contributing to a side that is capable of maintaining league one football eventually pushing for the Championship.  Add in a better youth setup where the first team is built mainly on good young prospects.    

Oh and we want to own our own training ground with much better facilities than we have currently.

In addition we don't like private ownership, in particular you Kelvin and David.  Oh and we don't like land deals unless you build a velodrome, swimming pool....but we are happy to break this principled stance if you are willing to commit to funding all of the above requirements from it.  You can make a small profit evetually if there is anything left over but don't make it too big and if you could pay for everything up front that would be great.  Oh to add, In the meantime we want no club debt, irrespective if you have to sack a manager, sign dud players, have a global pandemic and we want the club run on a break even basis....don't forget to get us promoted.  We would also like you to write off all £6 Million + of the loans you have made to the club as gifts.

Can we also be given a seat on the board so we can tell you how badly you run the club face to face at board meetings rather than via monthly statements on our website.  Eventually you can sell the club to us for the £1 you bought it for and we will take it from there.

I should warn you that while all this is ongoing we will continue to publicly insinuate you are unfit owners and call you out at every opportunity suggesting many ways in which you are failing as a club without offering any alternatives that will actually work without the whole English footballing structure being torn down and rebuilt from scratch.  Also known as the Bundesliga 50+1 method.

Good luck, let us know when you have done all that we have the £1 ready and waiting.  In fact thinking about it you still owe us £10k from when we paid the staff so you can pay us £9999 to take it off your hands.

.....you'd like to think I was joking here wouldn't you?

The awful thing is you've just summed up the Trust perfectly there.
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« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2021, 20:00:03 pm »

Still a bit confused about 5U Sport and genuinely donít understand the point?

Either they paid to own the club, weíre stopped from doing it and were paid the money back, so what?

They never paid the money in which case the club reverted to the original owners, so what?

5U Sport paid the money and the owners kept the money and the club. This would leave them open to legal challenge in the courts which has never materialised since the deal collapsed. This therefore is probably highly unlikely. What reasonable explanation would there be for 5U Sport not make an application to the courts?

Frankly my thoughts are so what to all of it? It just appears to me that the board of The Trust are slinging any bit of mud they can find about hoping some will stick. This is in a desperate attempt to demonstrate some impropriety and discredit the owners. However, thatís absolutely fair enough the club should be open to scrutiny and be prepared to respond to genuine allegations and concerns.

This should also apply to the Trust as well. Therefore the Trust have stated many supporters and members are asking these questions. Well how many is it?

What exactly are Trust accusing the owners of?

What should the owners have done instead to run the club, complete the stand and avoid any debt to any party?

As stated even allowing for inflation the owners have probably put more into the club than any other in the clubís entire history. Comparatively at this point why exactly are they considered failures in light of this.

Show your hand or fold and get off the pot basically.
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« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2021, 20:03:20 pm »

The awful thing is you've just summed up the Trust perfectly there.

I personally hope, and don't think the Trust do think like this but, crucially, this is how a majority of the support will perceive them to be?
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« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2021, 20:18:15 pm »

Wow, it has all kicked off. What the hell is going on at NTFC?
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