The Hotel End
September 20, 2021, 13:04:29 pm
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

NTFC Trust Presentation to WNC

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 14   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: NTFC Trust Presentation to WNC  (Read 4430 times)
random
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 986


View Profile
« on: September 09, 2021, 13:52:08 pm »

Here is the link to the slides that were sent to WNC for the recent meeting

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/uploads/files/wnc-full-presentation.pdf
Report Spam   Logged

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter

BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4152


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2021, 15:17:19 pm »

My god, who put that mess together?!?! Are you sure you want to share that to further your cause?

I hadn't seen it before so thanks, but come on, it's ridiculously negative, one-sided and contradictory.

Slide 3 - Virtually unreadable, presumably they've never heard of bullet points and the title case throughout is unnecessary. Pedantry aside, vague, subjective and negative throughout. "7 managers and 2 relegations in 6 years". You can't say that while totally ignoring the 2 promotions and still be taken seriously.

Slide 4 - Tom Reedisms throughout. "Build WOW not basic". Wow. Roll Eyes

Slide 7 - lots of talk of capacities, no talk of attendances. That's kind of the important part.

Slide 10 - another whinge about no written response, no mention of the proffered but refused open Zoom call.

Slide 11 - 14 - expectation of details to be provided from commercially sensitive negotiations with third parties. Which is why no written response was given to begin with, but hey, why not rake over those 25 questions again for old times' sake.

Slide 15 - Aha! I was waiting for that - more vague insinuations of wrongdoing from the failed Chinese deal.

Slide 18-20 - comparisons to two arbitrary clubs at opposite ends of the country. I'd suggest for this to have any meaning you'd need to see all 72 clubs side by side, otherwise it looks cherry picked.

Slide 21 - more cherry-picked stats.

Slide 22 - a picture of some fan zones with no text. We have a fan zone too, don't we?

Slide 23 - Some attendance figures comparing us to local rivals! It doesn't say what period the average attendance represents so is rendered pretty worthless. Let's assume it's this season, in which case all 5 clubs it compares us to are currently in a higher division than us and thus not a great comparison. Looking at the numbers in relation to each other though:

Club                 Ave Attendance   Capacity   % of capacity
Leicester        31851                  32312        99%
Luton        7863                   10356        76%
Northampton  5100                   7798          65%
Cambridge        4366                   8127          54%
Peterborough  7365                  15314         48%
MK Dons        8224                   30500         27%

I'd look at that and say MK Dons ground is clearly too big and Leicester's is too small. Everyone in the middle? Probably about right. This certainly isn't an argument for blowing large amounts of money on a significantly bigger ground!

Slide 25 - Here we go!! Supporter involvement in running football clubs! It had to come didn't it? But we're not interested in running the club ourselves. No. Agenda? What agenda?

Slide 27 - T.E.A.M.  Roll Eyes (I take it Tom's back on slide deck duty)

Slide 28 - get the council onside by telling them what they should be doing. Scope creep, anyone?

Slide 31 - It's today's latest buzzword - Infrastructure Foundation! Fan ownership wasn't that popular so lets go for a finger in the pie instead.

Slide 33 - blow the Trust's own trumpet a bit, probably undermined by this presentation being the best they could come up with.

On top of those individual points, there's an ongoing theme about needing more executive boxes (because not having them is "Embarrassing!") and yet there's a complaint that the proposed redevelopment focusses too much on them while only providing minimal seating. Just an unfocussed mess.




Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
random
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 986


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2021, 16:31:39 pm »

So which clubs would you prefer to be compared with ? One minute itís geography based, then they are too big or too successful

The fact that you are not concerned the owners sold the club for £6.68m and didnít inform the fans is less important to you than a slide saying we want wow is frankly unbelievable

I now have to assume u are a 12 year old shotboro troll
Report Spam   Logged
Another Pedj
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1181


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2021, 17:03:49 pm »

Who is Tom Reed?  (Reedism?)
Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3107


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2021, 17:04:19 pm »

Donít let Microsoft see it.. Theyíll sue them for misuse of PowerPoint..

Report Spam   Logged
cobblertone
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4002


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2021, 17:08:36 pm »

Reading the background of the Trust board, I think they need someone versed in the art of consultation and negotiation.
Far, far too much emotion in there. It's the first thing that loses you credibility and most could have been written by some frontline militant Union Rep. Some random and bizarre stats to try and back up arguments that aren't that clear.
I'd also suggest that much of the criticism should be levelled at the council as well as the owners. It certainly should be when talking about some of the other developments being enabled!
It's pretty poor stuff...the question section is well done, much of the rest is quite embarrassing. I can picture even a few of the people alluded to on the slide with their head in their hands, as I'm sure there are some reasoned and intelligent people involved.

If it wasn't for the last few slides you'd think it was a "KT/DB out" onslaught.
In fact, that is clearly what the Trust (well select members) want so why not start that movement with the fans. I think the Trust know that they aren't representative of the wider fan base.

Report Spam   Logged

All he had to do was build a stand.
everbrite
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16557


Akenfenwa best of the bunch since Steve Howard


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2021, 17:24:59 pm »

So which clubs would you prefer to be compared with ? One minute itís geography based, then they are too big or too successful

The fact that you are not concerned the owners sold the club for £6.68m and didnít inform the fans is less important to you than a slide saying we want wow is frankly unbelievable

I now have to assume u are a 12 year old shotboro troll


Dear Random,
Please advise your position on the Trust?

Some of the comments in the presentation are at best over ambitious; capable of bankrupting the club in short order.

What professional qualifications do you have to present the 'facts' as you see them to the WNC?


I ask this as your comment to a post(BoN) "I now have to assume u are a 12 year old shotboro troll" is rude and without merit. Perhaps an apology should be considered?

Where are the funds to promote your proposals?

Who is the person/people driving this type of agenda as to some it may appear disastrous?  and ..............
.....are they a Trust Member(s)?

The presentation sticks out to me as person(s) unknown who appear to have a grudge against NTFC and also the two owners.  Comparisons with other Clubs are so subjective that no real discussions on pro's and cons have been analysed.

IMO some of the points raised; personally would be extremely reluctant to let the Authors anywhere near the Club let alone WNC

Of course I am only one fan!

« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 17:42:20 pm by everbrite » Report Spam   Logged

2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4152


View Profile
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2021, 17:26:38 pm »

So which clubs would you prefer to be compared with ? One minute itís geography based, then they are too big or too successful

I presume you are talking about
Quote
Slide 18-20 - comparisons to two arbitrary clubs at opposite ends of the country. I'd suggest for this to have any meaning you'd need to see all 72 clubs side by side, otherwise it looks cherry picked.

and

Quote
Slide 23 - Some attendance figures comparing us to local rivals! It doesn't say what period the average attendance represents so is rendered pretty worthless. Let's assume it's this season, in which case all 5 clubs it compares us to are currently in a higher division than us and thus not a great comparison. Looking at the numbers in relation to each other though:

Club                 Ave Attendance   Capacity   % of capacity
Leicester        31851                  32312        99%
Luton        7863                   10356        76%
Northampton  5100                   7798          65%
Cambridge        4366                   8127          54%
Peterborough  7365                  15314         48%
MK Dons        8224                   30500         27%

I'd look at that and say MK Dons ground is clearly too big and Leicester's is too small. Everyone in the middle? Probably about right. This certainly isn't an argument for blowing large amounts of money on a significantly bigger ground!

My reference to the clubs being at opposite ends of the country was pretty superfluous, just conversational chit-chat and not relevant to the point I was making. The point being two seemingly random clubs picked from 72 (or rather 71 if you take us out of the picture) provide no context, just cherry picked examples that support the argument being made.

Looking at local rivals IS valid, but again context is important. They ARE all in a higher division than us and yet we're still getting higher gates than Cambridge (assuming the unqualified attendance figures do actually refer to this year). You have to look at the utility the grounds provide though, which the slides ignored because they were designed to make a point about "they've all got more seats than us". If we're into buzzwords it's a question of rightsizing, not just slinging loads more seats in and hoping people come to sit in them.

At no point did I say anything about "too big" or "too small" when making a comparison, merely that you could interpret the stats (when properly combined) to say that one team look like their ground is bigger than they need while another appears to be too small. Ours appears, like Goldilocks, to be about right for the present moment.

The fact that you are not concerned the owners sold the club for £6.68m and didnít inform the fans is less important to you than a slide saying we want wow is frankly unbelievable


Not really. We would have gone from one set of wealthy owners to another (who had apparently passed the "fit and proper owners" test, for what little that is worth). At the end of the day, it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference to our supporters unless the new owners either put no further money in at all or went to the other extreme and signed Messi for us, either of which is completely beyond our control. If someone owns something and wants to sell it, that is purely a matter between them and the buyer and is no one else's business. You might not like that, but whatever you feel about it is irrelevant because, like it or not, a football club is a commodity the same as a house, a business, a car...



« Last Edit: September 09, 2021, 17:40:55 pm by BackOfTheNet » Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
tcobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2796


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2021, 17:31:59 pm »

Quite sad really. Same old 50+1 ownership being mentioned,   "loan " being used as an argument,  again. Lot of "facts" which are quite pointless,  plus I didn't realise Plymouth had gone from the Non-league up to League 1.
Just looks like the Trust wanting the owners out so they can take over. Lot of petty point scoring,  hope the council realise this isn't backed by the majority of the fan base.
Report Spam   Logged

This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4152


View Profile
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2021, 17:38:28 pm »

Who is Tom Reed?  (Reedism?)

Tom used to post on here as Mecanno Stand, I think. He also writes the football stuff for the Nenequirer. He was the guy behind the infamous Park Inn leaflet.

In fairness, I've no idea if he was involved in this or not, it's just that certain of the slides sound tonally very like his writing. I freely and humbly apologise if he had nothing to do with it!
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1548


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2021, 17:43:39 pm »

Who is Tom Reed?  (Reedism?)
I think that precisely is the point.
Report Spam   Logged

English Chelsea fan this is your last game
We're not Galatasaray We're Sparta FC.
Another Pedj
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1181


View Profile
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2021, 17:49:57 pm »

I dont know if I am missing something.

 I am sure some members of the Trust board have the best interests of the club at heart but they seem very misguided

They seem to be asking the Council not to approve any deal. I assume.therefore, that they are against any development. They produce a mishmash of ideas but they are asking the Council for what? The Council does not control the Land . It has no power over the Club except to say no and even that may then become subject to a Judicial review. It has no right to dictate how a private company should be run. They are appealing for inertia.

Would someone please try to explain what they hope to achieve?
Report Spam   Logged
Another Pedj
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1181


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2021, 17:50:56 pm »

Tom used to post on here as Mecanno Stand, I think. He also writes the football stuff for the Nenequirer. He was the guy behind the infamous Park Inn leaflet.

In fairness, I've no idea if he was involved in this or not, it's just that certain of the slides sound tonally very like his writing. I freely and humbly apologise if he had nothing to do with it!

Thank You.
Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3107


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2021, 17:53:49 pm »



Would someone please try to explain what they hope to achieve?

World domination. Theyíre planning on annexing Poland next week. I hear their leader now drives around in a tank.

Report Spam   Logged
Another Pedj
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1181


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2021, 18:01:06 pm »

I think that precisely is the point.

Yes having been informed who it is it is exactly the point. I can only assume that the Trust has not involved him in this for two reasons, they disowned the debacle of that leaflet at the Trust meeting and secondly he does not appear to have a postition on the Board.
Report Spam   Logged
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4152


View Profile
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2021, 18:03:25 pm »

I dont know if I am missing something.

 I am sure some members of the Trust board have the best interests of the club at heart but they seem very misguided

They seem to be asking the Council not to approve any deal. I assume.therefore, that they are against any development. They produce a mishmash of ideas but they are asking the Council for what? The Council does not control the Land . It has no power over the Club except to say no and even that may then become subject to a Judicial review. It has no right to dictate how a private company should be run. They are appealing for inertia.

Would someone please try to explain what they hope to achieve?

I said earlier, the Trust are likely to cause more harm than good with their current stance and this is exactly why. By throwing continual spanners in the works, they are only likely to derail talks between KT/DB and WNC. At some point, KT & DB might just get sick of it all and write it off as a bad lot. I hope they don't and I don't think they will, but that's based on nothing more than gut feel. If they did, I can't say I'd blame them and the Trust would have been instrumental in bringing about the very doomsday scenario they claim to be so worried about.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions..."
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
CJ
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1548


View Profile
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2021, 18:19:41 pm »

I said earlier, the Trust are likely to cause more harm than good with their current stance and this is exactly why. By throwing continual spanners in the works, they are only likely to derail talks between KT/DB and WNC. At some point, KT & DB might just get sick of it all and write it off as a bad lot. I hope they don't and I don't think they will, but that's based on nothing more than gut feel. If they did, I can't say I'd blame them and the Trust would have been instrumental in bringing about the very doomsday scenario they claim to be so worried about.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions..."
I think there is more chance of them walking if the stories of them regaining control of the club from the Chinese for no outlay have substance. Can't see them leaving anytime soon if they are 7 million (or whatever it is) down as the official figures suggest.
Report Spam   Logged

English Chelsea fan this is your last game
We're not Galatasaray We're Sparta FC.
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4152


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2021, 18:37:14 pm »

I think there is more chance of them walking if the stories of them regaining control of the club from the Chinese for no outlay have substance. Can't see them leaving anytime soon if they are 7 million (or whatever it is) down as the official figures suggest.

Agreed, but that still doesn't smell right to me. There were offshore accounts involved though so it's possible that any return of funds just isn't visible through the normal channels. I can't see 5USports or any other company just sucking up a multimillion pound lost transaction and then just slinking away with their tail between their legs and barely a whimper to go with it.
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1154


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2021, 19:00:19 pm »

Donít let Microsoft see it.. Theyíll sue them for misuse of PowerPoint..



What did you think of Kelvin's by comparison?
Report Spam   Logged
singcobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2300


View Profile
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2021, 19:14:44 pm »

I really cannot understand peoples obsession with the "Chinese Deal" and the money. DB/KT made a deal with some Chinese chancers. The deal fell through. DB/KT made some money out of it. At the end of the day those transactions and any money involved if fķck all to do with anybody on this board or the high and mighty trust. It was a private deal and if you want them to disclose this then get every supporter and the trust to show every thing about their private monetary dealings.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 14   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMFServer.com - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy