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NTFC Trust Presentation to WNC

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CJ
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« Reply #180 on: September 14, 2021, 11:59:41 am »

My recollection is pretty vague, but I believe it included buying the land on which the cinema, Burger King etc stands on and in operating everything into a grand retail scheme yes.

LXB went on to develop Rushden Lakes…..!

EDIT: From 2007...... https://northampton.vitalfootball.co.uk/a-plot-to-rival-the-godfather/
Thanks GPC. You couldn't make it up!
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #181 on: September 14, 2021, 13:13:06 pm »

Unnecessarily rude? Personally I didn't think I was being but apologies if any distress was caused. Everyone is entitled to an opinion....i've made that clear already...and no, it doesn't necessarily make you wrong, nor does it make you right. An opinion is just that...an opinion.

I asked the question about your views regarding the East Stand plans....because i'd seen a post made by you (or maybe someone using your name!) on Facebook last Thursday which I've got to admit took me by surprise! Certainly not one of someone who claims to be "bored" with it all.


I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?

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« Reply #182 on: September 14, 2021, 13:28:44 pm »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?


Well done to the Trust, looks like they’ve really got the current owners on the back foot.
Undecided, 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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« Reply #183 on: September 14, 2021, 13:36:18 pm »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?



I personally have (nearly! always tried to engage in constructive debate…I applaud your post and the content therein.
As for your suggestion….it’s certainly something to take away and consider, me personally…I think it sounds like a reasonable suggestion….
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« Reply #184 on: September 14, 2021, 13:59:04 pm »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?



A good post, Tel.
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« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2021, 14:18:31 pm »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?


Let us hope this happens and progress made.

WHO is the catalyst to set it up, BBC Radio Northampton?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 04:02:18 am by Risdene » Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2021, 15:02:40 pm »

Well done to the Trust, looks like they’ve really got the current owners on the back foot.
Undecided, 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I have no idea how you derive that from my post.
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« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2021, 16:02:18 pm »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?



+++

This is the whole issue for the 'common' fan, or member of the public.
I wouldn't trust the club, council or Trust as far as I could throw them. Smoke and mirrors, lack of transparency, talking in riddles, stats, unfounded observations/rumours, egos, cronyism, financial gain etc. You could be talking about common politics.

What we need as a Question Time style panel to get the groups together and allow a proper grilling, minuted and published in the press. Hopefully with some clear accountability, intent and actions attached. Although I appreciate that this would still probably mean absolutely jack all, a few more people may be able to increase their awareness and make rounded judgements.
From the outside the whole thing comes across as a total sh*t show and pretty embarrassing.

If the council, club and Trust have nothing to hide and have a common interest then make it happen. I'm sure you're all reading.
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« Reply #188 on: September 14, 2021, 16:22:15 pm »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?



This bang on and definitely what is needed, it would clear the air one way or another and at least we could find out what direction all parties wish to go in.
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« Reply #189 on: September 15, 2021, 01:19:24 am »

Where does it say that other opinion is irrelevant? I've posted that everyone is entitled to their views......whether I agree with them or not is down to me! The fact I am engaging in a civil conversation with that particular poster should show that I don't actually find his opinion or thoughts irrelevant. I am listening to the membership or wider fanbase, I have no idea if BOTN is a Trust member or not...it doesn't matter to me!

I feel like the discussion has moved on but I do need to clarify what I was saying on this specific point as I don't think I've been clear.

The point is that there is a whole bunch of supporters including myself that don't feel the trust board and therefore the trust as a whole represent our views.

Maybe I'm wrong here but my view is that the trust board members are simply custodians and should always be acting in a way that represents the views of the membership and the wider support base.  Not just their own personal beliefs or agendas.  Hopefully the two views match on most occasions but when they don't who and how is the decision made on which route to take?

For instance the decision to back the development deal a year ago.  Who makes that decision and on what evidence do they base that?  How do they know they are truly representing what the members or wider fanbase want?  Likewise the decision to withdraw the backing.  Likewise the decision to reject meetings in favour of written answers only to the infamous 25 questions.

Add to this the presentation to the council.  I assume the council is receiving the presentation in the belief this is the view of the fans of NTFC.  So again is it the view of the trust board that's being presented, the membership or the whole fanbase.  If it's just the board view then that should be made clear to the council, if it's the members or wider fanbase then how do you know you are truly representing our views?

My sense is that the board is now made up of indviduals with very similar viewpoints on our ownership and the way forward and those being added to the board are people that very much match this template.  Surely that's a massive problem for the members and the fanbase.  Because that brings me back to the initial point.  Who represents what BOTN and others are saying?
« Last Edit: September 15, 2021, 01:40:13 am by MCHammer » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #190 on: September 15, 2021, 01:23:52 am »

I’m not bored with constructive debate. What frustrates me is that I could spend hours listening to the Trusts interpretation of the situation and come away thinking they have a point. Half an hour later, I can spend time listening to the clubs interpretation of events and feel equally compelled to believe them. I know, because I have done this frequently. In fact, I think I am one of a very small minority who actually challenge all involved.

The truth about the Trust is simple. You can’t fight on any level with an olive branch in one hand, and a baseball bat in the other. One minute it looks like serious attempts at constructive dialogue are on the table, only to find next minute it is soured by an underlying resentment, mistrust and  dislike for the current set up. That is absolutely how is comes across to most.

Then you have the approach from the club, which at best seems aloof, and at worst ambivalent and arrogant at times towards its support.

I have always been a huge advocate of openness. Both the Trust, council and the club have shown astonishing disregard in this area. I still firmly believe that all parties should submit to the arranging of an open public forum, with an independent individual or body asking the questions. The questions should be generated from supporters, who have no affiliation with any of the parties. The first part of the open debate should be pre submitted without any of the parties seeing them prior to the meeting. With the council, the Trust and the Club all in one place, it would offer those of us who remain undecided the chance to scrutinise all involved openly. Perhaps once the agreed amount of pre submitted questions are answered, those involved might be open to a 30-60 minute open Q&A session…..

Do you think this is something the Trust would be interested in doing?

Great post mate and really pleasing response from Grange.  Absolutely what needs to happen.
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« Reply #191 on: September 15, 2021, 07:11:55 am »

A simple question to the Trust board.

As you represent your Cobblers supporting members, what percentage want a fan owned club?
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« Reply #192 on: September 15, 2021, 07:31:57 am »

A simple question to the Trust board.

As you represent your Cobblers supporting members, what percentage want a fan owned club?

Speaking of simple questions, I'd still like to know how many of the current Trust board were elected to their posts and how many were co-opted on.
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« Reply #193 on: September 15, 2021, 10:55:18 am »

A more accurate question might be.... how many people have applied to be elected?  (and then unsuccessful)
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« Reply #194 on: September 15, 2021, 11:16:07 am »

A simple question to the Trust board.

As you represent your Cobblers supporting members, what percentage want a fan owned club?

I think the most important question is what do the Council want? They have the power and make the decision what happens to the club.

Problem is very few fans know or care what could happen to our club (as long as it survives) let alone actually understand it.

Do you think we are better off owned by one 75 year old property investor living in Dubai or owned by 100's of fans and businesses, who quite possibly have more money together than that one owner.

Also just to remind everyone, the club has approx £6.5m in operating income each year before any outside investment. You then need anything from £0 to £100m depending on your ambitions to move forward / bad business practices / how much tax free debt you want to 'invest' into the business.

If you had 2000 fans paying for one extra imaginary home game £20 per month = £40,000 per month x 12 = £480k per year, and that is before asking businesses for say £100 per month. IF the club could benefit from the land deal to say £5m as a starting point to develop Sixfields (other investments / grants etc could top this up)  then would you agree this could start exciting fans to what might be possible.

What stuck me at FGR was how clean and tidy the place looked, plus the digital signage. Strange mix of old ground feel (lots of standing and barriers) with modern digital effects.

How does Sixfields currently make you feel?  Anyone?
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« Reply #195 on: September 15, 2021, 11:19:49 am »


How does Sixfields currently make you feel?  Anyone?

At home.
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« Reply #196 on: September 15, 2021, 11:25:34 am »

At home.

Did the builders leave the back wall of your extension half build too?   Grin

I have some spare blankets, winter is coming
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« Reply #197 on: September 15, 2021, 11:35:15 am »

I think the most important question is what do the Council want? They have the power and make the decision what happens to the club.

Problem is very few fans know or care what could happen to our club (as long as it survives) let alone actually understand it.

Do you think we are better off owned by one 75 year old property investor living in Dubai or owned by 100's of fans and businesses, who quite possibly have more money together than that one owner.

Also just to remind everyone, the club has approx £6.5m in operating income each year before any outside investment. You then need anything from £0 to £100m depending on your ambitions to move forward / bad business practices / how much tax free debt you want to 'invest' into the business.

If you had 2000 fans paying for one extra imaginary home game £20 per month = £40,000 per month x 12 = £480k per year, and that is before asking businesses for say £100 per month. IF the club could benefit from the land deal to say £5m as a starting point to develop Sixfields (other investments / grants etc could top this up)  then would you agree this could start exciting fans to what might be possible.

What stuck me at FGR was how clean and tidy the place looked, plus the digital signage. Strange mix of old ground feel (lots of standing and barriers) with modern digital effects.

How does Sixfields currently make you feel?  Anyone?

Thank you for the detailed reply, it is just a pity it was to totally different question!!!

Are you an MP?

The question was, 'What percentage of the Trust's membership want a fan owned club'?
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« Reply #198 on: September 15, 2021, 12:22:24 pm »

If you had 2000 fans paying for one extra imaginary home game £20 per month = £40,000 per month x 12 = £480k per year, and that is before asking businesses for say £100 per month. IF the club could benefit from the land deal to say £5m as a starting point to develop Sixfields (other investments / grants etc could top this up)  then would you agree this could start exciting fans to what might be possible.

So do it then.  No more talking, no more presentations, no more random figures plucked from nowhere....prove it by doing it.

There is nothing and has been nothing stopping the Trust and individuals like yourselves from starting a foundation over the last 3/4 years.  There are no barriers currently.

I read the Trusts presentation to the council and think great I'm in but they then provide not a shred of evidence of how it will be achieved, show no practical experience of having delivered anything over the last 5 years.  We get a whos who of the great and good on the Trust Board and there are some impressive people involved.  I then I think what have all these impressive individuals achieved/delivered over the last 5 years for it's membership/the fans?  What physical evidence do I have to believe they/you could deliver anything like what you claim is required.

We can all sell someone a dream.  Time to stop talking about it and do it!
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« Reply #199 on: September 15, 2021, 12:46:46 pm »

So do it then.  No more talking, no more presentations, no more random figures plucked from nowhere....prove it by doing it.

There is nothing and has been nothing stopping the Trust and individuals like yourselves from starting a foundation over the last 3/4 years.  There are no barriers currently.

I read the Trusts presentation to the council and think great I'm in but they then provide not a shred of evidence of how it will be achieved, show no practical experience of having delivered anything over the last 5 years.  We get a whos who of the great and good on the Trust Board and there are some impressive people involved.  I then I think what have all these impressive individuals achieved/delivered over the last 5 years for it's membership/the fans?  What physical evidence do I have to believe they/you could deliver anything like what you claim is required.

We can all sell someone a dream.  Time to stop talking about it and do it!
+1 Time for some action.
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