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BREAKING: Cobblers to invite democratically elected fan onto board...

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« Reply #160 on: September 23, 2021, 11:10:49 am »

So basically become a progressive, innovative and forward thinking club like nearly all our nearest rivals ..Yes why not, 20 years rotting at  the hands of land speculators has worn very thin.
Absolutely agree,.Time for a major change,

You can't compare us to any other club as apparently that is cherry picking and is anti-club.
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« Reply #161 on: September 23, 2021, 11:23:08 am »

You can't compare us to any other club as apparently that is cherry picking and is anti-club.

Our current owners are anti club.
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« Reply #162 on: September 23, 2021, 11:31:54 am »

You can't compare us to any other club as apparently that is cherry picking and is anti-club.

Thomas did point out one criteria for those standing to represent supporters on the board being not anyone who 'hates' him 😂
I certainly dont hate the man, just the way he bumbles along year after year, chopping and changing his mind without ever actually getting anything worthwhile done..
 If I could stand, it would be on a Thomas out immediately agenda, I would demand a much expanded voting field that includes the Town of Northampton which many can be forgiven for forgotting is actually the place the Cobblers represent so therefore all inhabitants are perfectly entitled to demand a vote on their local clubs future.
Allow them access to the facts and let the voting commences 😂
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« Reply #163 on: September 23, 2021, 11:52:16 am »

That's not two minds, it's one mind.

You don't like "the Trust", you think it's a clique (of 748 people!?).  You think everything it ever does is negative and disruptive (how can a paper tiger be disruptive?)

When you talk about everything the club does, what do you mean?  Literally nothing happened to improve the future outlook for the club for six years. Its future currently rests almost entirely with a 75 year old lawyer from Oxford who lives in Dubai, to whom it is in massively in debt.  He also sold your club without telling you.   Yet the Trust are the ones you're suspicious of?  Lifelong supporters?

If the current moves are more than box-ticking to try to get the deal with WNC over the line and head off any imposed regulation following the Tracey Crouch review then it's a really positive move.  But you have to understand that some people won't be dancing in the street after six years of literally nothing and a totally inexplicable 180 degree about turn from KT.  Remember that KT said supporter involvement was a deal-breaker during takeover talks.  He was going to refuse to take over the club if supporters had a say in running it.  And up until a week ago he maintained that view.  What changed? 

A meeting between the Trust and WNC took place 2 weeks before the simply incredible change of philosophy... but of course it's nothing to do with the Trust, it's a paper tiger and never does anything positive!






I'm in two minds. There's a very big part of me that hopes this goes to someone new from well outside the Trust's clique. I think it needs a fresh perspective, untainted by the sour grapes and general ill feeling between the Trust and the club.

On the other hand, if the Trust are "on the inside" they might stop being so negative and disruptive towards everything the club does. Having said that, they are a paper tiger of an organisation anyway, so I pretty much come back to my first thoughts on the matter!
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« Reply #164 on: September 23, 2021, 12:08:46 pm »

Playing devil's advocate a little bit...

Why would the wider membership and/or fanbase hearing the answers first-hand have been a bad thing? Why does it matter who sets up or chairs the meeting, as long as they're not being obstructive? Would it have been better (and easier to defend) if the Trust took the meeting and just requested written answers/clarifications afterwards, where gaps needed to be plugged?

A Zoom meeting could have been recorded and minuted, to get things on the record.

The Trust Board had several Zoom meetings with KT and once even received a 40 minute lecture from David Bower.   KT is very engaging, you go away and think about what has been said and you realise it's absolutely nothing new.  After this happened for the third or fourth time we realised it wasn't working, enough was enough and it was time to try to obtain some new information in a format which could be easily reviewed and shared.

The lengths that have been gone to in order to avoid answering even one of those questions (actually I think the one about selling the club for a pound was answered on a video) are incredible.  Must have taken much, much longer (trawling Trust members' social media for percieved offensive posts etc) than actually answering the questions would have done, if the club really had the plans it claimed to have for stand completion, increased revenue etc.
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« Reply #165 on: September 23, 2021, 12:09:18 pm »

"we demand fan representation on the board"
"ok then"
"WOLF"
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« Reply #166 on: September 23, 2021, 12:20:13 pm »

"we demand fan representation on the board"
"ok then"
"WOLF"

 Grin
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« Reply #167 on: September 23, 2021, 12:31:39 pm »

This is certainly a chance for all those with the answers to put themselves forward. The fans who constantly put their ideas forward as being better than anything the Club are doing, how much more progressive their ideas are, how fans should be represented on the board. Now is your chance, put your names forward,  just show us how progressive you are, time to stop hiding behind your keyboards, put you big boy pants on ,  this is your chance to change the Club from within, get the fans behind you, get their ideas to. We see it on here  day after day, week after week, about how crap the board are, nows the time for you to put yourselves forward, let's have three or four of you up there asking for people's votes. There's plenty of season ticket holders who will propose and second you, come on, show us what your made of and it's prove its not all hot air.
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« Reply #168 on: September 23, 2021, 12:50:39 pm »

This is certainly a chance for all those with the answers to put themselves forward. The fans who constantly put their ideas forward as being better than anything the Club are doing, how much more progressive their ideas are, how fans should be represented on the board. Now is your chance, put your names forward,  just show us how progressive you are, time to stop hiding behind your keyboards, put you big boy pants on ,  this is your chance to change the Club from within, get the fans behind you, get their ideas to. We see it on here  day after day, week after week, about how crap the board are, nows the time for you to put yourselves forward, let's have three or four of you up there asking for people's votes. There's plenty of season ticket holders who will propose and second you, come on, show us what your made of and it's prove its not all hot air.
Do you really think that KT will take any notice?
Whiting has been put on the board to veto anything you could come up with.
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« Reply #169 on: September 23, 2021, 13:16:36 pm »

I want to challenge you on a couple of things you have said here.

That's not two minds, it's one mind.

You don't like "the Trust", you think it's a clique (of 748 people!?).  You think everything it ever does is negative and disruptive (how can a paper tiger be disruptive?)

I see this reported a lot when accusations are made regarding the Trust being a clique of 748 which I assume represnts the membership number.  I always think it's very misleading.  How many are life members?  How many of those 748 are actively engaged with the trust.  i.e. you have GDPR forms for so can contact.  How many of those that you do have GDPR forms for are actively engaged in two way conversations with the trust?

This is important in any discussion because you can't just dismiss accusations of the Trust being a clique by producing numbers that don't represent the full picture.

Regarding the accusation of the Trust being a clique I think it's probably more accurate to describe the Trust Board and it's "special" advisors as a clique.  Bearing in mind my previous point about the lack of two way engagement with membership then You see that the board and it's advisors pretty much are the Trust.

The reason some people view the Trust as a clique is because the board and it's advisors seem to be making ALL the decisions regarding how the Trust approach the matter of ownership, development etc with very little or no active engagement with the wider fan base and their views.  In addition the board and it's advisors are very much like minded in their opinions and new board members that are added seem to fit the mould and viewpoint of the existing board members.  If we only surround ourselves with like minded individuals surely we are only ever going to get the answers we seek and have a very restricted view of what the wider fan base actually want.

So when BOTN gives his opinion...in my view you have three choices.  You could dismiss it out of hand and say it's wrong.  You could agree with it and do something to change the clique like nature.  Or you could question why so many fans seem to hold this opinion and if they truly are wrong how can this perception be changed.

Do you believe the current board and advisors as a whole have a good understanding of the opinions and desires of the wider fanbase and if so how?  I put this question to Grange with no success but who represents BOTN and his view at supporters trust board meetings?  Even if he's completely wrong?      

The Trust Board had several Zoom meetings with KT and once even received a 40 minute lecture from David Bower.   KT is very engaging, you go away and think about what has been said and you realise it's absolutely nothing new.  After this happened for the third or fourth time we realised it wasn't working, enough was enough and it was time to try to obtain some new information in a format which could be easily reviewed and shared.

Regarding this.  Do you not think the membership and wider fanbase have a right to know what was said in these meetings.  Hence why there is a desire to ask the questions and hear the answers themselves.  There seems to be this underlying level of the Trust Board and their "Special" advisors not trusting, pardon the pun, the fans.  It's almost like a "we know best" attitude and we will share info with you when it's appropriate.  I mean this is the very thing everyone seems to hate so much about our current owners.

Are there any minutes or recordings etc. of these meetings and can we see them?
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« Reply #170 on: September 23, 2021, 13:19:25 pm »

Do you really think that KT will take any notice?
Whiting has been put on the board to veto anything you could come up with.

With respect mate what is the point of supporter board representation at all then if this is your view.  What was the point of the Trust having a board rep in the past? 
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« Reply #171 on: September 23, 2021, 13:28:24 pm »

 In addition the board and it's advisors are very much like minded in their opinions and new board members that are added seem to fit the mould and viewpoint of the existing board members.  If we only surround ourselves with like minded individuals surely we are only ever going to get the answers we seek and have a very restricted view of what the wider fan base actually want.

So why don't you put yourself up to join the board and get your feelings known ?    Oh I forgot, your a keyboard warrior aren't you ?   Wink Roll Eyes
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« Reply #172 on: September 23, 2021, 13:42:25 pm »

Have we reached Godwins yet?
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« Reply #173 on: September 23, 2021, 13:48:10 pm »

So why don't you put yourself up to join the board and get your feelings known ?    Oh I forgot, your a keyboard warrior aren't you ?   Wink Roll Eyes

And there we have it in a nutshell.  Couldn't have timed your reply more perfectly and summed up everything that was and is wrong with the attidtude of the board.

Dismissed because I'm not on the board and I'm anti trust.  Not a single comment about the content of what I say.  Not a single thought of maybe the Trust does have a problem.

I haven't stood for the board of the Trust for several very good reasons which I've stated many times previously.  I'm married have two kids and work long hours to provide for them.  I coach and run football teams 4 times a week, my daughter plays for NTFC girls and I watch the Cobblers.  The little free time I have I am studying for my next coaching badge and I'm also currently studying for a Diploma.  I absolutely love my life, love my family and most of all love football.

I feel like I make a real practical difference to people through my own activities and that means something to me.

So with all that even if I had any free time spare, which I don't, what possible encouragement would comments like yours and all the others I get make me want to even spend a minute of my valuable time fighting a losing battle on a trust board that is dead set on a path that I don't agree with and has delivered NOTHING tangible for it's members and the wider support base in the last 5/6 years of KT ownership.
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« Reply #174 on: September 23, 2021, 13:49:45 pm »

With respect mate what is the point of supporter board representation at all then if this is your view.  What was the point of the Trust having a board rep in the past? 
Historically it had teeth, this position is a tick in a couple of boxes, the upcoming government review and the appeasement of WNC.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1004891/TC_letter_to_Oliver_Dowden_Accessible_Format.pdf
I personally would welcome an independent regulator.
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« Reply #175 on: September 23, 2021, 13:56:56 pm »

Have we reached Godwins yet?

I think we are getting close.
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« Reply #176 on: September 23, 2021, 13:59:43 pm »

It's a fair challenge around membership numbers.

Like many organisations, particularly gyms & health clubs, a lot of people are happy to join but are then not active members.  Some will be moved to get involved if they agree or disagree violently with what is going on.

We do have a high proportion of life members, but if they really feel that the Trust doesn't represent them they can still resign their membership if they want to.  In honesty we have had one or two of those, but that's about it.

With regard to even the board being clique, I'm new on here (this time around) but have said on Twitter several times that I didn't know a single member of the board before I stood to join it a couple of years ago.  I'd heard of Andy Roberts by reading his name when he wrote for the Chron and I recognised a couple of faces from 30+ years of going to games.  But that was it.  We almost never agree 100% on anything and don't socialise to any extent.

So if a group of people who didn't know each other, aren't friends, don't socialise, argue frequently, do different jobs, have very different political views etc. agree on a few points you can either dismiss them as a clique or you can think a bit deeper about how it has happened.  Perhaps the facts are so powerful that it is not possible for views to vary very widely if you have a certain remit and responsibility towards the club.

I think we could definitely do better in ascertaining and trying to represent the views of others.  To that end we have arranged meetings with some members who have contacted us to say they disagree with our approach and views, and any member is welcome to attend any board meeting - we had one attend our last board meeting.  It's difficult when people go onto forums and trot out the usual stuff but when offered interactive engagement refuse it, and to be honest I have absolutely no time for stirrers or hot air merchants like that.

We need members to complete GDPR forms before we can email them.  I have seen a few comments that people joined the trust and then never heard anything.  They probably didn't complete the form. The form can be emailed, so any trust members who want one please use the Trust website to request one.  

We are looking at membership software which will take a lot of the manual labour out of communications and enable us to get comms out and gain opinions quickly.  Quite often we have a very limited time within which to respond to something which has come up and we are simply unable to consult with all members within that timeframe.

So I 100% agree we should canvass wider opinion more often, and we are working to do so.

But I couldn't disagree more with the "clique" label.  The more the merrier in the fight to get NTFC to where it deserves to be - and that isn't in League 2 surrounded by warehouses with no money!  Hopefully at least we can all agree on that?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.  Have a good day.

There will be board vacancies at the upcoming AGM, as there usually are - it's a million miles from a closed shop.  



I want to challenge you on a couple of things you have said here.

I see this reported a lot when accusations are made regarding the Trust being a clique of 748 which I assume represnts the membership number.  I always think it's very misleading.  How many are life members?  How many of those 748 are actively engaged with the trust.  i.e. you have GDPR forms for so can contact.  How many of those that you do have GDPR forms for are actively engaged in two way conversations with the trust?

This is important in any discussion because you can't just dismiss accusations of the Trust being a clique by producing numbers that don't represent the full picture.

Regarding the accusation of the Trust being a clique I think it's probably more accurate to describe the Trust Board and it's "special" advisors as a clique.  Bearing in mind my previous point about the lack of two way engagement with membership then You see that the board and it's advisors pretty much are the Trust.

The reason some people view the Trust as a clique is because the board and it's advisors seem to be making ALL the decisions regarding how the Trust approach the matter of ownership, development etc with very little or no active engagement with the wider fan base and their views.  In addition the board and it's advisors are very much like minded in their opinions and new board members that are added seem to fit the mould and viewpoint of the existing board members.  If we only surround ourselves with like minded individuals surely we are only ever going to get the answers we seek and have a very restricted view of what the wider fan base actually want.

So when BOTN gives his opinion...in my view you have three choices.  You could dismiss it out of hand and say it's wrong.  You could agree with it and do something to change the clique like nature.  Or you could question why so many fans seem to hold this opinion and if they truly are wrong how can this perception be changed.

Do you believe the current board and advisors as a whole have a good understanding of the opinions and desires of the wider fanbase and if so how?  I put this question to Grange with no success but who represents BOTN and his view at supporters trust board meetings?  Even if he's completely wrong?      

Regarding this.  Do you not think the membership and wider fanbase have a right to know what was said in these meetings.  Hence why there is a desire to ask the questions and hear the answers themselves.  There seems to be this underlying level of the Trust Board and their "Special" advisors not trusting, pardon the pun, the fans.  It's almost like a "we know best" attitude and we will share info with you when it's appropriate.  I mean this is the very thing everyone seems to hate so much about our current owners.

Are there any minutes or recordings etc. of these meetings and can we see them?
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« Reply #177 on: September 23, 2021, 14:04:41 pm »

I want to challenge you on a couple of things you have said here.

I see this reported a lot when accusations are made regarding the Trust being a clique of 748 which I assume represnts the membership number.  I always think it's very misleading.  How many are life members?  How many of those 748 are actively engaged with the trust.  i.e. you have GDPR forms for so can contact.  How many of those that you do have GDPR forms for are actively engaged in two way conversations with the trust?

This is important in any discussion because you can't just dismiss accusations of the Trust being a clique by producing numbers that don't represent the full picture.

Regarding the accusation of the Trust being a clique I think it's probably more accurate to describe the Trust Board and it's "special" advisors as a clique.  Bearing in mind my previous point about the lack of two way engagement with membership then You see that the board and it's advisors pretty much are the Trust.

The reason some people view the Trust as a clique is because the board and it's advisors seem to be making ALL the decisions regarding how the Trust approach the matter of ownership, development etc with very little or no active engagement with the wider fan base and their views.  In addition the board and it's advisors are very much like minded in their opinions and new board members that are added seem to fit the mould and viewpoint of the existing board members.  If we only surround ourselves with like minded individuals surely we are only ever going to get the answers we seek and have a very restricted view of what the wider fan base actually want.

So when BOTN gives his opinion...in my view you have three choices.  You could dismiss it out of hand and say it's wrong.  You could agree with it and do something to change the clique like nature.  Or you could question why so many fans seem to hold this opinion and if they truly are wrong how can this perception be changed.

Do you believe the current board and advisors as a whole have a good understanding of the opinions and desires of the wider fanbase and if so how?  I put this question to Grange with no success but who represents BOTN and his view at supporters trust board meetings?  Even if he's completely wrong?      

Regarding this.  Do you not think the membership and wider fanbase have a right to know what was said in these meetings.  Hence why there is a desire to ask the questions and hear the answers themselves.  There seems to be this underlying level of the Trust Board and their "Special" advisors not trusting, pardon the pun, the fans.  It's almost like a "we know best" attitude and we will share info with you when it's appropriate.  I mean this is the very thing everyone seems to hate so much about our current owners.

Are there any minutes or recordings etc. of these meetings and can we see them?

Cheers MC, saved me a lengthy response there (good following post too)

It all knocks on nicely into repeating my oft asked question about how many of the current Trust board were actually elected and how many were co-opted. The longer this question goes unanswered, the more I start to think the answer will reveal exactly why everyone thinks the board is a clique!!!
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« Reply #178 on: September 23, 2021, 14:05:19 pm »

With respect mate what is the point of supporter board representation at all then if this is your view.  What was the point of the Trust having a board rep in the past? 

Its a good question, and if stories are true then board meetings were very few and far between (Cardoza era), a lot was said in individual meetings between other members and drip fed to the Trust member as and when appropriate...... you could argue that the point of having a Trust member was to sign some documents when asked to do so by the Chairman....but that's a totally separate matter!

Now I think of Board meetings, and the sheer logistics! Yes we are in "Zoom times" but even then, the owner spends most of his time in Dubai (GMT+4) and the Chairman spends a lot of time in Florida (GMT-5).

I am still struggling to get my head around how an "independent fan" can dedicate the time and resources to this role, and how do they reach out to and be contacted by the fanbase. They also need to have some financial acumen, and also pass the EFL fit and proper directors test.....and finally understand just what the responsibilities of a full director are. Joining the board of a company which is around £7m in debt is not a decision to be taken lightly!

The devil is in the detail of course, but as so often is the case the detail is missing.
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« Reply #179 on: September 23, 2021, 14:24:50 pm »

It's a fair challenge around membership numbers.

Like many organisations, particularly gyms & health clubs, a lot of people are happy to join but are then not active members.  Some will be moved to get involved if they agree or disagree violently with what is going on.

We do have a high proportion of life members, but if they really feel that the Trust doesn't represent them they can still resign their membership if they want to.  In honesty we have had one or two of those, but that's about it.

With regard to even the board being clique, I'm new on here (this time around) but have said on Twitter several times that I didn't know a single member of the board before I stood to join it a couple of years ago.  I'd heard of Andy Roberts by reading his name when he wrote for the Chron and I recognised a couple of faces from 30+ years of going to games.  But that was it.  We almost never agree 100% on anything and don't socialise to any extent.

So if a group of people who didn't know each other, aren't friends, don't socialise, argue frequently, do different jobs, have very different political views etc. agree on a few points you can either dismiss them as a clique or you can think a bit deeper about how it has happened.  Perhaps the facts are so powerful that it is not possible for views to vary very widely if you have a certain remit and responsibility towards the club.

I think we could definitely do better in ascertaining and trying to represent the views of others.  To that end we have arranged meetings with some members who have contacted us to say they disagree with our approach and views, and any member is welcome to attend any board meeting - we had one attend our last board meeting.  It's difficult when people go onto forums and trot out the usual stuff but when offered interactive engagement refuse it, and to be honest I have absolutely no time for stirrers or hot air merchants like that.

We need members to complete GDPR forms before we can email them.  I have seen a few comments that people joined the trust and then never heard anything.  They probably didn't complete the form. The form can be emailed, so any trust members who want one please use the Trust website to request one.  

We are looking at membership software which will take a lot of the manual labour out of communications and enable us to get comms out and gain opinions quickly.  Quite often we have a very limited time within which to respond to something which has come up and we are simply unable to consult with all members within that timeframe.

So I 100% agree we should canvass wider opinion more often, and we are working to do so.

But I couldn't disagree more with the "clique" label.  The more the merrier in the fight to get NTFC to where it deserves to be - and that isn't in League 2 surrounded by warehouses with no money!  Hopefully at least we can all agree on that?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.  Have a good day.

There will be board vacancies at the upcoming AGM, as there usually are - it's a million miles from a closed shop.  



Nice one Keith and welcome to THE. That's the most reasoned and engaging post I've seen related to the current Trust.
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