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BREAKING: Cobblers to invite democratically elected fan onto board...

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« Reply #200 on: September 24, 2021, 07:52:07 am »

What got to Kelvin was the news that two WNC councillors  will sit on the trust board, one Conservative and one Labour, if we are doing Top Trumps of news that one beats KT fan on the board all day long.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
They must have edited listen again as he didnt say a word about it!
He does certainly sound frustrated with some of the questions, and I don't blame him
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« Reply #201 on: September 24, 2021, 07:57:04 am »

The Trust Board had several Zoom meetings with KT and once even received a 40 minute lecture from David Bower.   KT is very engaging, you go away and think about what has been said and you realise it's absolutely nothing new.  After this happened for the third or fourth time we realised it wasn't working, enough was enough and it was time to try to obtain some new information in a format which could be easily reviewed and shared.

The lengths that have been gone to in order to avoid answering even one of those questions (actually I think the one about selling the club for a pound was answered on a video) are incredible.  Must have taken much, much longer (trawling Trust members' social media for percieved offensive posts etc) than actually answering the questions would have done, if the club really had the plans it claimed to have for stand completion, increased revenue etc.

Thanks for taking the time, Keith. I don't feel you've answered any of the questions in my OP but to be honest that's fairly standard on here (whether the poster is aligned to the Trust or not).

The bit around KT essentially being the snake in Jungle Book or Obi Wan Kenobi... again playing devil's advocate, in my experience that only happens if the person/people asking the questions let someone get away with it.
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« Reply #202 on: September 24, 2021, 08:38:36 am »

What got to Kelvin was the news that two WNC councillors  will sit on the trust board, one Conservative and one Labour, if we are doing Top Trumps of news that one beats KT fan on the board all day long.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Honestly, I don’t think they are going to like that one bit. On a separate note I thought the question from that John on Twitter was the more challenging of the listeners comments.
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« Reply #203 on: September 24, 2021, 08:40:17 am »

It's a fair challenge around membership numbers.

Like many organisations, particularly gyms & health clubs, a lot of people are happy to join but are then not active members.  Some will be moved to get involved if they agree or disagree violently with what is going on.

We do have a high proportion of life members, but if they really feel that the Trust doesn't represent them they can still resign their membership if they want to.  In honesty we have had one or two of those, but that's about it.

With regard to even the board being clique, I'm new on here (this time around) but have said on Twitter several times that I didn't know a single member of the board before I stood to join it a couple of years ago.  I'd heard of Andy Roberts by reading his name when he wrote for the Chron and I recognised a couple of faces from 30+ years of going to games.  But that was it.  We almost never agree 100% on anything and don't socialise to any extent.

So if a group of people who didn't know each other, aren't friends, don't socialise, argue frequently, do different jobs, have very different political views etc. agree on a few points you can either dismiss them as a clique or you can think a bit deeper about how it has happened.  Perhaps the facts are so powerful that it is not possible for views to vary very widely if you have a certain remit and responsibility towards the club.

I think we could definitely do better in ascertaining and trying to represent the views of others.  To that end we have arranged meetings with some members who have contacted us to say they disagree with our approach and views, and any member is welcome to attend any board meeting - we had one attend our last board meeting.  It's difficult when people go onto forums and trot out the usual stuff but when offered interactive engagement refuse it, and to be honest I have absolutely no time for stirrers or hot air merchants like that.

We need members to complete GDPR forms before we can email them.  I have seen a few comments that people joined the trust and then never heard anything.  They probably didn't complete the form. The form can be emailed, so any trust members who want one please use the Trust website to request one.  

We are looking at membership software which will take a lot of the manual labour out of communications and enable us to get comms out and gain opinions quickly.  Quite often we have a very limited time within which to respond to something which has come up and we are simply unable to consult with all members within that timeframe.

So I 100% agree we should canvass wider opinion more often, and we are working to do so.

But I couldn't disagree more with the "clique" label.  The more the merrier in the fight to get NTFC to where it deserves to be - and that isn't in League 2 surrounded by warehouses with no money!  Hopefully at least we can all agree on that?

Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.  Have a good day.

There will be board vacancies at the upcoming AGM, as there usually are - it's a million miles from a closed shop.  




That seems a fair and reasoned response Keith. The vast majority of I wouldn’t disagree with. When I was on the board, I would say there were a few people who we’re definitely involved in things more than the whole board. But I didn’t see this as impermeable, more a case of their involvement with each other outside of the Trust.

The only area where I disagree entirely is with the Trust purporting to being representative of the support. In no way do I mean this contentiously, purely from a fair and factual perspective. The main body of the Trust membership derived from times when the club was perceived to be, or was indeed in crisis. Out of the 700+ members, I would be surprised if 90% of them have had any active involvement in anything to do with the Trust for many years now. I know from my own personal experience on the board, many years ago, new memberships were rare to say the least. I would hazard a guess, so feel free to correct me, that over recent years there has not been hardly any new sign ups. I would also add, to substantiate my claim that it is not representative, the poultry attendance at Trust led meetings. In the instances where the Trust has held forums without a special guest, the turn out with the exclusion of Trust board members, has been almost in single figures. I openly challenge you and the board to hold an open forum regarding fan ownership, and the stadium redevelopment, without an invited guest. I will happily publicly apologise if you get more than 2% of our average home gate attend.

For a bit of balance. I don’t like for one minute like what is going on with the ground, and several other aspects around the development. I am realistic about how these things go, having been until recently, part of an acquisitions team for a substantial development company. So I am fully aware of the chicanery that goes on. I think that KT made a huge mistake in not honouring his initial promise to finish the East stand. I also have reservations around the maintenance and upkeep of the existing parts of the ground separate to the East stand. It’s looks like it's tired and could do with some attention. I also feel that there is a lack of feedback from the club. Some clubs are a bit OTT in this area, but there is a balance to be struck, one that NTFC falls short of. On a personal level, I am not motivated significantly to stray into any of the arguing.

In a nutshell. I think the members of the Trust board have every right to challenge what they see fit. But personally, I cannot see how anyone outside of the Trust board and a few like minded people, believe that they are in anyway, shape, or form, representatives of the wider support. From a club perspective, they need to stop “kicking the can”. They can only take so much of the accusations and inference that they do not have the clubs interests at heart. Then sooner or later something will shift in the supports views. That stand needs finishing, we need to restore some pride in the club. From that perspective, mine and any right minded persons attention, falls on the owners to start shifting bricks, not the blame.
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« Reply #204 on: September 24, 2021, 09:13:40 am »

What got to Kelvin was the news that two WNC councilors  will sit on the trust board, one Conservative and one Labour, if we are doing Top Trumps of news that one beats KT fan on the board all day long.
Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
Having two councilors on the board of the Trust / as liaisons I think is going to be great for all parties but is also surely going to shift the dynamic somewhat, in what I think is a good way.
I have been critical about the tone of some of the statements from the Trust and also whilst well intentioned and passionate fans, maybe not always conducting themselves (as a collective) in the best way.

Having two councilors who can maybe bring more order and structure is a positive thing and will also be used to writing statements in a much more 'political' way. I cant imagine that two sitting councilors would allow their names, albeit indirectly, to be associated to some of the statements or more accusational (apparently not a real word, it should be) points made.

I look forward to seeing how it has an impact and hopefully will bring all three parties (Trust, Council, Club) closer together which can only be a benefit for us all.
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« Reply #205 on: September 24, 2021, 09:25:47 am »

Hammy, so how will this Supporter Director be representative of the support?  How many votes do you expect them to get?

Considering they say they have been thinking and discussing this for months, the delivery of this has been haphazard at best.

Having 2 weeks to be appointed is ridiculous, let alone the very little detail. They don't even know how long the appointment is for FFS.



 
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« Reply #206 on: September 24, 2021, 10:35:49 am »

The lack of thought and clarity either demonstrated utter contempt (ok a bit strong but you know what I mean) for the position or they are total inept and clueless.

Which one is it?

There are so many questions and unknowns. KT said on the radio they would be liable  Huh?  But for what and how? How long is it for?  What are the perks? What are the hours, liabilities, roles and responsibilities? What resources given? How many board meetings? etc etc etc

Most votes win in 2 weeks is a joke, what if the perfect person is currently on holiday or ill or working away etc.?

Should have been a more drawn out process like you have to come in the top 3 first and then another vote with just those 3 ?  Thats how many elections are run isn't it? 


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« Reply #207 on: September 24, 2021, 10:42:38 am »

The lack of thought and clarity either demonstrated utter contempt (ok a bit strong but you know what I mean) for the position or they are total inept and clueless.

Which one is it?

There are so many questions and unknowns. KT said on the radio they would be liable  Huh?  But for what and how? How long is it for?  What are the perks? What are the hours, liabilities, roles and responsibilities? What resources given? How many board meetings? etc etc etc

Most votes win in 2 weeks is a joke, what if the perfect person is currently on holiday or ill or working away etc.?

Should have been a more drawn out process like you have to come in the top 3 first and then another vote with just those 3 ?  Thats how many elections are run isn't it? 



In the main, I agree.
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« Reply #208 on: September 24, 2021, 10:44:41 am »

Thanks Melly, so it is contempt or ineptness?  Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #209 on: September 24, 2021, 10:45:31 am »

Agree it seems rushed. I dont know why they couldnt announce the idea and say 'more to follow'.
As KT said on the radio he wants people to seriously think about it, but there isnt anything to think about or making reasonable decisions.

I would expect and hope that once they agree the structure they will extend the timeline. I would be nervous about someone on the board who went into it completely blind
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« Reply #210 on: September 24, 2021, 11:04:09 am »

Thanks Melly, so it is contempt or ineptness?  Smiley Smiley
I prefer the benefit of the doubt and say ill conceived. I don’t think it’s feasible to ask someone to accept a position without understanding the circumstances under which they are potentially making themselves legally liable for. It could be argued that they may feel more obliged or coerced into accepting the responsibilities once they have been elected. Like I said, my advice to anyone is if elected get some independent legal advice before you formally accept the position. In fairness the club would most likely insist on this anyway as a condition of acceptance.
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« Reply #211 on: September 24, 2021, 12:00:03 pm »

I would think that the liabilities will be limited, more a case of not getting tied up in anything illegal (which I don't think for a minute would happen)

Supposedly you have to act in the best interests of the Ltd company but it's almost meaningless, i mean, you can charge £2m consulting fee, lose £10m of loan money and it's all fine.

Who is going to pay the £300+ bill for legal advice?

More importantly how is one fan, acting alone in and out of the boardroom, going to make a difference. Especially when KT's excuse before was that they are always talking to fans, directly, via social media and email.

In his rush to appease the council (which is what I believe this is all about) he has underlined his failings and mismanagement.

Personally the £6.68m Chinese money not reported, the thinking that a basic £3m East stand development with just 202 more seats, the enclosing of the East stand by warehouses over the running track, the £7m debt with no increase in assets, the 2 gifted promotions utterly wasted with 2 toothless relegations are bigger and clearer failings to me.



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« Reply #212 on: September 24, 2021, 12:24:54 pm »

The lack of thought and clarity either demonstrated utter contempt (ok a bit strong but you know what I mean) for the position or they are total inept and clueless.

Which one is it?

There are so many questions and unknowns. KT said on the radio they would be liable  Huh?  But for what and how? How long is it for?  What are the perks? What are the hours, liabilities, roles and responsibilities? What resources given? How many board meetings? etc etc etc

Most votes win in 2 weeks is a joke, what if the perfect person is currently on holiday or ill or working away etc.?

Should have been a more drawn out process like you have to come in the top 3 first and then another vote with just those 3 ?  Thats how many elections are run isn't it? 




I think you worry too much, would be my first observation.

In terms of the timescale for the appointment, I have said elsewhere that it does seem a bit short. However, there might be a reason for that.

You seem to be viewing this from an employee perspective, rather than that of a elected board member. In short, I doubt much past possible free admission and some minor incurred expenses, that you would get anything.
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« Reply #213 on: September 24, 2021, 12:41:24 pm »

Can't wait to see the candidate list. Guaranteed to keep this at the top of the page regardless of what's going on with the football!
Outside of this limited forum it probably won't cause much of a stir.
It'll be a scarf waving figurehead role for the fans to have a whinge at on a matchday or on email, a bit like a 'KT junk folder'.
Sadly it could well be someone who thinks that they are going to have a huge impact and change the world, only to realise someone is operating them from behind and they are not involved in the whispered conversations.

I'm sure they'll get a free ticket with unlimited tea and biscuits, which won't make much material difference as it will be someone like Tony Ancell.

Having said that, hats off for anyone with the time, energy and inclination to throw their hat in the ring.
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« Reply #214 on: September 24, 2021, 14:07:37 pm »

Hammy, so how will this Supporter Director be representative of the support?  How many votes do you expect them to get?

Considering they say they have been thinking and discussing this for months, the delivery of this has been haphazard at best.

Having 2 weeks to be appointed is ridiculous, let alone the very little detail. They don't even know how long the appointment is for FFS.



 

Can I correct you?
The two week period is for nominations to be submitted, not for the appointment to be confirmed.
That will happen after the nominations have been put out to the vote. Wink
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« Reply #215 on: September 24, 2021, 14:08:36 pm »


Good statement from The Trust Board.  Cool
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« Reply #216 on: September 24, 2021, 14:10:50 pm »



In short, I doubt much past possible free admission and some minor incurred expenses, that you would get anything.
Being between jobs at the mo, I recently went for an interview. The basics took about five minutes, and then onto the perks. They were, free parking, (loads of room on the road outside,) and free use of the canteen, but I would still have to pay for the food.
At that point I said that if they had not heard from me within 14 days, then their application to employ me was unsuccesful.
I have always wanted to do that.  Grin
I would also add that whoever chucks their name in, is walking into a vipers nest. Best of luck.
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« Reply #217 on: September 24, 2021, 14:12:52 pm »

Why would anyone in their right mind take up a position that is so undefined ?
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« Reply #218 on: September 24, 2021, 15:19:29 pm »

Can I correct you?
The two week period is for nominations to be submitted, not for the appointment to be confirmed.
That will happen after the nominations have been put out to the vote. Wink

Frankly Random to me at least you don’t sound to be on the same Hymn sheet as the Trust ref Today’s statement. Judging by your last two messages today not sure if they are misleading viewers.
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« Reply #219 on: September 24, 2021, 15:55:47 pm »

What if there are several candidates who are equal in votes and cannot be separated?

FA Cup style draw live on iFollow, balls to be drawn by minor celebrities or kick the ball in the skip?

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