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Sutton (h) Sat 2nd Oct.

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« Reply #280 on: October 04, 2021, 16:03:59 pm »

I don't think anyone is disputing that they were better than us, but they did try to "influence" the officials. I sit behind the away dugout and everyone around me was joking that while Sutton were so blatant with the timewasting when they were 2-0 up, the didn't need to do it at all , we were never going to score 2 goals. Sad

Don't disagree with any of the above but I would say our time wasting a few seasons ago was legendary.........
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« Reply #281 on: October 04, 2021, 16:37:39 pm »

Don't disagree with any of the above but I would say our time wasting a few seasons ago was legendary.........

As I've said earlier on this thread, we are as bad as any other team, but the point is that, these days all teams get away with murder regarding cheating and time wasting.

For what it's worth, although we weren't in the refs ear so much on Saturday, we certainly have been over the course of this season, and much more than last year. Moreover, Danny Rose dives around as much as Charlie Goode ever did and is always looking to try to "win" fouls (ie cheat). I don't know the exact rules on this and maybe the laws make it difficult for refs to deal with this. As Deepcut says, I'm sure most of us fans don't know all the ins and outs of the laws of the game. However, there's no doubt that far more players using the various froms of cheating (or game management as those who applaud it like to call it) and getting away with it than there used to be, and it's spoiling the game.

The match officials are partially to blame for this. They let far too many infringement pass that they have clearly seen. For eaxample, how is it possible for a linesman to allow a throw which went out of play next to where he's stood, be taken 10+ yards further up the pitch, without taking any action. Can we really assume he didn't notice? What kind of message does this inaction send out to the team that is cheating? This kind of thing happens several times every single game. Officials are far more lenient than they used to be with thiskind of behaviour.

Let's see throwers being pulled back to the right place EVERY time they try to cheat, be booked for repeat offences, more yellow cards given for diving, tiime-wasting and feigning injury, and all this nonsense would soon stop or at least be under control.

I'm often shouting for the Cobblers players to get on to the ref, because if our opponents are the only ones to do it, they gain an unfair advantage, because officials ARE influenced by it. That, however, isn't really what I would like to see. The real solution is for officials to get tougher on this kind of behaviour.
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« Reply #282 on: October 04, 2021, 16:51:18 pm »

As I've said earlier on this thread, we are as bad as any other team, but the point is that, these days all teams get away with murder regarding cheating and time wasting.

For what it's worth, although we weren't in the refs ear so much on Saturday, we certainly have been over the course of this season, and much more than last year. Moreover, Danny Rose dives around as much as Charlie Goode ever did and is always looking to try to "win" fouls (ie cheat). I don't know the exact rules on this and maybe the laws make it difficult for refs to deal with this. As Deepcut says, I'm sure most of us fans don't know all the ins and outs of the laws of the game. However, there's no doubt that far more players using the various froms of cheating (or game management as those who applaud it like to call it) and getting away with it than there used to be, and it's spoiling the game.

The match officials are partially to blame for this. They let far too many infringement pass that they have clearly seen. For eaxample, how is it possible for a linesman to allow a throw which went out of play next to where he's stood, be taken 10+ yards further up the pitch, without taking any action. Can we really assume he didn't notice? What kind of message does this inaction send out to the team that is cheating? This kind of thing happens several times every single game. Officials are far more lenient than they used to be with thiskind of behaviour.

Let's see throwers being pulled back to the right place EVERY time they try to cheat, be booked for repeat offences, more yellow cards given for diving, tiime-wasting and feigning injury, and all this nonsense would soon stop or at least be under control.

I'm often shouting for the Cobblers players to get on to the ref, because if our opponents are the only ones to do it, they gain an unfair advantage, because officials ARE influenced by it. That, however, isn't really what I would like to see. The real solution is for officials to get tougher on this kind of behaviour.
At one point on Saturday their right back had a throw in near his own goal line but after he’d waved his arms around while walking actually took the throw from the midpoint of his half.
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« Reply #283 on: October 04, 2021, 17:07:02 pm »

At one point on Saturday their right back had a throw in near his own goal line but after he’d waved his arms around while walking actually took the throw from the midpoint of his half.

To make it worse, their manager was very quick to point out to the ref where our players should be taking throw ins from. At one point in the second half he even grabbed Ali Koiki to stop him moving up the line. Did anyone else see that? Ref did nothing or the 4th official, who wasn't interested. A little different to the 4th official at the Swindon game who liked to always get involved. It's the inconsistency I hate.         
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« Reply #284 on: October 04, 2021, 17:23:27 pm »

It is so easy for refs to stop most of the gamesmanship. I think I'm correct in saying that taking a throw in from the incorrect place is a foul throw, if so, enforce it every time. Keepers taking 30 seconds for goal kicks, warn them that you know they are timewasting and next time will result in a booking.
     We know all teams do it, but I can never remember when we were very good at it, it always looked so obvious when we did it !
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« Reply #285 on: October 04, 2021, 17:50:46 pm »

As I've said earlier on this thread, we are as bad as any other team, but the point is that, these days all teams get away with murder regarding cheating and time wasting.

For what it's worth, although we weren't in the refs ear so much on Saturday, we certainly have been over the course of this season, and much more than last year. Moreover, Danny Rose dives around as much as Charlie Goode ever did and is always looking to try to "win" fouls (ie cheat). I don't know the exact rules on this and maybe the laws make it difficult for refs to deal with this. As Deepcut says, I'm sure most of us fans don't know all the ins and outs of the laws of the game. However, there's no doubt that far more players using the various froms of cheating (or game management as those who applaud it like to call it) and getting away with it than there used to be, and it's spoiling the game.

The match officials are partially to blame for this. They let far too many infringement pass that they have clearly seen. For eaxample, how is it possible for a linesman to allow a throw which went out of play next to where he's stood, be taken 10+ yards further up the pitch, without taking any action. Can we really assume he didn't notice? What kind of message does this inaction send out to the team that is cheating? This kind of thing happens several times every single game. Officials are far more lenient than they used to be with thiskind of behaviour.

Let's see throwers being pulled back to the right place EVERY time they try to cheat, be booked for repeat offences, more yellow cards given for diving, tiime-wasting and feigning injury, and all this nonsense would soon stop or at least be under control.

I'm often shouting for the Cobblers players to get on to the ref, because if our opponents are the only ones to do it, they gain an unfair advantage, because officials ARE influenced by it. That, however, isn't really what I would like to see. The real solution is for officials to get tougher on this kind of behaviour.

I still think Rugby Union has it nailed on; any lip or questioning of the ref's authority when the ball is out of play and it's a 10-yard move towards your own goal.
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« Reply #286 on: October 04, 2021, 18:02:33 pm »

From beginning to end, this thread has been about anything but the Sutton game!  Grin

I think that's probably the best approach.

Continuing the "anything but Sutton theme," I was just reading the thread and listening to Pick of the Pops from 1978.This came on and I don't know why but I thought of Evers  Huh?

Maybe we could all have a collective hug to help "cope" with the trauma we have just witnessed?

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« Reply #287 on: October 04, 2021, 19:50:46 pm »

I still think Rugby Union has it nailed on; any lip or questioning of the ref's authority when the ball is out of play and it's a 10-yard move towards your own goal.

This was tried in football a few years ago but didn't really work because it caused more arguing and every free kick took an age.
Maybe if referees allowed more quick free kicks the defending team would have to get into position instead of crowding around the ref?
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« Reply #288 on: October 04, 2021, 19:54:35 pm »

It is so easy for refs to stop most of the gamesmanship. I think I'm correct in saying that taking a throw in from the incorrect place is a foul throw, if so, enforce it every time. Keepers taking 30 seconds for goal kicks, warn them that you know they are timewasting and next time will result in a booking.
     We know all teams do it, but I can never remember when we were very good at it, it always looked so obvious when we did it !

Agree, it frustrates me as well, from whichever side. I'm surprised PL/EFL officials don't pull teams up early for throw in yard pinching and excessive time wasting by the keepers. I am also amazed by the amount of raised foot foul throws that aren't picked up either. I use them to set the tone for the rest of the game and find it helps with the overall match control.
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« Reply #289 on: October 04, 2021, 19:57:34 pm »

This was tried in football a few years ago but didn't really work because it caused more arguing and every free kick took an age.
Maybe if referees allowed more quick free kicks the defending team would have to get into position instead of crowding around the ref?

Defenders also used it to bring the kick too close, especially for players like David Beckham, to allow them to get the kick up and over the wall to get it back down again.
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« Reply #290 on: October 04, 2021, 20:12:50 pm »

I wasn't at the game so cannot comment specifically about this one.  But as I have said before, the officials have Mark One eyeballs to see incidents once and once only in real time to make their decisions.
Putting pressure onto an official is a tactic that is employed by a lot of clubs and despite denials that it doesn't have an effect, having been in that position and generally rate myself as pretty robust, it does have an impact even if the official consciously tries their hardest not to allow it to.  Not necessarily for the immediate decision but possibly for decisions later in the game.  The officials are human.
The crowding round the officials is something that 'all clubs' had agreed to stop doing, which initially yielded an obvious improvement, but it appears to have come back into the game.
At Step 5 and below and in some of the FA competitions, the use of Sin Bins for dissent, has drastically reduced the level of dissent considerably.  Which in turn allows the officials to make decisions as they see fit without any threats of verbal or physical dissent. 

"Linesman - should do more" As I have said previously, because of the communications equipment, all four officials will be involved in officiating the game, even if you do not see any visible flag or signals to acknowledge that.  You would be surprised at how much 'in-game' and constant chatter is going on during a game to assist the man/woman in the middle.  But it is up to that person with the whistle to take all of that advice and make the ultimate decision each and every time, normally within seconds.

Yes, officials do get decisions wrong but the majority are correct, or correct in line with the interpretation of the Law.  The main problem that officials have is with players, managerial staff, commentators/pundits and fans who either do not know the Law, or are not familiar with the interpretations, or what has lead up to the decision being made and what has been considered when the official is making those decisions.
It infuriates officials, when leading pundits make comment about a particular decision that is completely incorrect in Law.  Unfortunately, fans and media believe the version given on MotD or Sky/BT Sports which creates more unjustifiable abuse of the officials.

Which is why when asked, either on here or regularly at games, I try and explain the decisions in Law and also why I believe that the officials have made the various decisions.  I have also said that I don't necessarily agree with the particular decisions made (especially with my claret tinted specs on) and give my honest opinion when I believe that they have got it wrong, but I believe that my explanation provides a better education and understanding.

It's not a job for the faint-hearted.  Across the country, I heard last week that 35% of officials have not re-registered for the 2021-2022 season. There are not enough to go round, that is one reason why I have not been to as many Cobblers games as I normally do.  I and my fellow officials have been in constant demand.  One of the greatest reasons given for the 'disappearance' has been the level of abuse both verbal and physical that officials have suffered both during and particularly after games.  There are weekly examples reported in the media, a lot of examples that I've seen do not reach that level of publicity.
The game cannot continue without officials, some leagues in my area are having to self officiate some games because there are insufficient officials to go round.

I've asked for a weekend off, so I should be at Hartlepool, subject to a lastminute.com appointment, when we will be able to talk about the excellent Cobblers performance and not the level of officiating on the journey home, I can but hope... Cool

When you are refereeing a game what instructions do you give to your linesmen?
When my daughter played in junior and then ladies football somebody connected with each team ran the line, I frequently took a turn and it's a harder job than it looks. Referees varied from passers bye to some quite experienced Refs. Each Ref would talk to the linos before the game, some just said "flag for throw ins and offside and leave the rest to me"(usually the passer bye). Others would add to that "if you spot any infringement put your flag up and I'll come and have a word"(the more experienced Ref).
I ask because when watching the Cobblers it often appears that some linesmen only flag for throw ins and offside even when a blatant foul or hand ball happens under their nose.
How would you handle things?
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« Reply #291 on: October 04, 2021, 20:21:15 pm »

We are now told that Connolly was not in the squad on Saturday as his wife was giving birth, don't know why we could not be told this earlier.
But in another strange statement, maybe due to the questioning of his team selection, JB says the players on the periphery were not picked because they are not match fit. These players have had the same pre-season as the others and presumably have trained the same throughout August and September so should have the same fitness levels apart from not playing in matches. Therefor it seems they are not match fit because they have not been playing and if that is the reason for not selecting them they will never get match fit and have little chance of being selected, quite astounding.
The general consensus was that Harriman should have been in the starting 11. If it was thought that he could not play the full 90 minutes surely it would still have been better for him to start and play 60,70 or 80 minutes until he tired.
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« Reply #292 on: October 04, 2021, 20:26:22 pm »

With the necessary willpower from the authorities it would all be easy to stamp out.

Time wasting? A warning for the first offence then a yellow the next time.

Stealing yards or a foul throw? Give the throw the other way.

Getting in the ref's face? Yellow card.

Swarming the ref? Yellow cards all round.

Swearing at the ref? Straight red.

It might ruin a few games when it was introduced but the players would soon get the message!
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« Reply #293 on: October 04, 2021, 21:41:40 pm »

Covid cost us on Saturday .
I would like to know how many players refuse the jab.
In no way am i saying Guthrie did because i don’t know, but with squads so small i think those that refuse it are letting everyone down .

Just listened to this Jon Brady interview;

https://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/2021/october/ifollow-jon-brady-previews-the-papa-johns-trophy-tie-with-walsall/

"Roughly 66%", "nearly fully vaccinated".

The precise comment is around 9:15 minutes in.

This should probably have had a separate thread.
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« Reply #294 on: October 04, 2021, 21:42:18 pm »

With the necessary willpower from the authorities it would all be easy to stamp out.

Time wasting? A warning for the first offence then a yellow the next time.

Stealing yards or a foul throw? Give the throw the other way.

Getting in the ref's face? Yellow card.

Swarming the ref? Yellow cards all round.

Swearing at the ref? Straight red.

It might ruin a few games when it was introduced but the players would soon get the message!
Think you're right Mr Brakespear!
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« Reply #295 on: October 04, 2021, 21:44:41 pm »

We are now told that Connolly was not in the squad on Saturday as his wife was giving birth, don't know why we could not be told this earlier.
But in another strange statement, maybe due to the questioning of his team selection, JB says the players on the periphery were not picked because they are not match fit. These players have had the same pre-season as the others and presumably have trained the same throughout August and September so should have the same fitness levels apart from not playing in matches. Therefor it seems they are not match fit because they have not been playing and if that is the reason for not selecting them they will never get match fit and have little chance of being selected, quite astounding.
The general consensus was that Harriman should have been in the starting 11. If it was thought that he could not play the full 90 minutes surely it would still have been better for him to start and play 60,70 or 80 minutes until he tired.
Maybe we couldn't be told because Mrs Connolly herself was unaware of exactly when she would be giving birth until relatively close to the event?
Brady. Yeah, sounds like he's full of horses*** to me. If you are going to make an excuse for a team selection try and make it a convincing one.
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« Reply #296 on: October 04, 2021, 21:56:27 pm »

Think you're right Mr Brakespear!

 Grin
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« Reply #297 on: October 04, 2021, 21:59:22 pm »

Maybe we couldn't be told because Mrs Connolly herself was unaware of exactly when she would be giving birth until relatively close to the event?
Brady. Yeah, sounds like he's full of horses*** to me. If you are going to make an excuse for a team selection try and make it a convincing one.
Her water had broken... waterlogged pitch!
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« Reply #298 on: October 04, 2021, 22:11:46 pm »

At one point on Saturday their right back had a throw in near his own goal line but after he’d waved his arms around while walking actually took the throw from the midpoint of his half.

He was told by the ref to go back in line with her. So he did and then began his launching actions and ended up mid way in his own half.  He should have launched the ball from the spot the Ref told him to. He didn't, the ref looked away.  For me that was an opportunity for the ref to stamp her authority. It wasn't taken. In reality she should have booked him or make him take the throw again, releasing the ball from the throw-in spot - plus adding on time!

Fair amount on here of two wrongs make a right; that of course includes most of us (and me).
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« Reply #299 on: October 05, 2021, 07:07:22 am »

With the necessary willpower from the authorities it would all be easy to stamp out.

Time wasting? A warning for the first offence then a yellow the next time.

Stealing yards or a foul throw? Give the throw the other way.

Getting in the ref's face? Yellow card.

Swarming the ref? Yellow cards all round.

Swearing at the ref? Straight red.

It might ruin a few games when it was introduced but the players would soon get the message!

Hallelujah, love it.  Wink
If they did that in the PL and the EFL, it would help the lower level grassroots officials tremendously.
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