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Manwork04
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« Reply #2440 on: October 31, 2024, 13:38:20 pm »

Careful - you are challenging the Trumponium law of fact filtration
I have a question Peter, can you name me one successful socialist government ever?
If you know anything about business this budget was an absolute disaster.
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« Reply #2441 on: October 31, 2024, 13:39:30 pm »

Employers NIC set at 15% is a heck of a disincentive to employ and will depress Wages (particularly in the private sector). I see Reeves has admitted as much this morning. You'd think that in the Buildings and related trades the changes in Employers NIC and the National Minimum wage for the young will act as a strong disincentive from getting the young doing the jobs we really need to cover from our own resources (not importing it) and ensuring the lazy and feckless get into a routine of hard work.
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Peter Frost
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« Reply #2442 on: October 31, 2024, 14:30:21 pm »

I have a question Peter, can you name me one successful socialist government ever?
If you know anything about business this budget was an absolute disaster.

OK - I’ll take the bait but firstly some ground rules there are no countries or governments that operate a total socialist system, also definitions of successful are a bit subjective but there are indexes based on measurement of defined criteria that can indicate overall performance- I‘d argue the first two terms of the Blair administration were successful- looking further afield countries with left of centre administrations Sweden, Croatia, Denmark, Finland , Slovenia and Iceland are considered relatively good places to live looking at wealth, healthcare, transport and social care.

Do I know anything about business - well it‘s not a cv pissing contest but I worked at a high level in a commercial organisation for over 30 years and retired in Switzerland so either didn’t get found out or occasionally got something right

I think you repeatedly mistake me for a socialist- I’m not but my beliefs are certainly just left of centre - I believe the last administration were both incompetent and corrupt but I’m also no lover of Kier Starmer - it may boil your piss but actually for integrity I think Corbyn was a better man - one might disagree with everything he stood for but he never wavered or could be accused of hypocrisy unlike Starmer.

Re the budget- it’s not a disaster but it is certainly a gamble and the real result will be seen in around12 months - if the UK can show modest growth with tangible improvements in the UK as a society then it will have been successful. They however now need to address both immigration and the entire benefit system - I welcome diversity but not uncontrolled immigration and I firmly believe in a work ethic - if people are capable of working they should always be better off than those that choose not to.
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« Reply #2443 on: October 31, 2024, 15:03:11 pm »

I wonder if it will take more than the one term to redress Tory failings? Crumbling schools, health care on its knees, social care in dire straits (despite Mr Johnson telling us he had fixed it), prisons overcrowded to breaking point, chronically under-funded public services. To fix this the money has to come from somewhere. Had it not been for the Tory legacy Labour may have been able to push the growth agenda but they had to fix things quickly so I feel they made a very good start. As for business - wage rises contribute to inflation so perhaps lower rises might not be such a bad thing? Overall this is a good budget for those who are struggling, for public services and those who depend on them.
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DavCobb
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« Reply #2444 on: October 31, 2024, 16:02:37 pm »


Overall this is a good budget for those who are struggling, for public services and those who depend on them.


But certainly not for anything other than the smallest business. We've already had 'Christmas cancelled', the January conference cancelled, signposted that the annual bonus won't be up to much and can only imagine what will happen when we get to the April pay rise cycle. The impact of the NI changes on my wage equates to 2%. We are a successful cash rich company, so probably the ideal firms they are targetting.

It certainly is a volatile landscape. My rises have gone 0%, 2.5%, 5% (highest in my 30 years), 2%...and we know which way they are heading.
 
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Manwork04
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« Reply #2445 on: October 31, 2024, 16:59:36 pm »

OK - I’ll take the bait but firstly some ground rules there are no countries or governments that operate a total socialist system, also definitions of successful are a bit subjective but there are indexes based on measurement of defined criteria that can indicate overall performance- I‘d argue the first two terms of the Blair administration were successful- looking further afield countries with left of centre administrations Sweden, Croatia, Denmark, Finland , Slovenia and Iceland are considered relatively good places to live looking at wealth, healthcare, transport and social care.

Do I know anything about business - well it‘s not a cv pissing contest but I worked at a high level in a commercial organisation for over 30 years and retired in Switzerland so either didn’t get found out or occasionally got something right

I think you repeatedly mistake me for a socialist- I’m not but my beliefs are certainly just left of centre - I believe the last administration were both incompetent and corrupt but I’m also no lover of Kier Starmer - it may boil your piss but actually for integrity I think Corbyn was a better man - one might disagree with everything he stood for but he never wavered or could be accused of hypocrisy unlike Starmer.

Re the budget- it’s not a disaster but it is certainly a gamble and the real result will be seen in around12 months - if the UK can show modest growth with tangible improvements in the UK as a society then it will have been successful. They however now need to address both immigration and the entire benefit system - I welcome diversity but not uncontrolled immigration and I firmly believe in a work ethic - if people are capable of working they should always be better off than those that choose not to.
Didn’t think you could, Venezuela is a country that had a socialist government, have a read below and educate yourself, as for Corbyn, that’s not someone I’d admit to admire ever, but each to their own.

https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/socialism-a-case-study-on-venezuela/
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Manwork04
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« Reply #2446 on: October 31, 2024, 17:07:24 pm »

I wonder if it will take more than the one term to redress Tory failings? Crumbling schools, health care on its knees, social care in dire straits (despite Mr Johnson telling us he had fixed it), prisons overcrowded to breaking point, chronically under-funded public services. To fix this the money has to come from somewhere. Had it not been for the Tory legacy Labour may have been able to push the growth agenda but they had to fix things quickly so I feel they made a very good start. As for business - wage rises contribute to inflation so perhaps lower rises might not be such a bad thing? Overall this is a good budget for those who are struggling, for public services and those who depend on them.
They have borrowed billions of pounds, you do know we have to pay it back right, with interest.
I do agree with you on social care, it’s an utter car crash as is the NHS.
Taxing work isn’t the answer, it’s so stupid it’s off the scale. FACT.
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« Reply #2447 on: October 31, 2024, 18:15:59 pm »

Didn’t think you could, Venezuela is a country that had a socialist government, have a read below and educate yourself, as for Corbyn, that’s not someone I’d admit to admire ever, but each to their own.

https://www.thepolicycircle.org/minibrief/socialism-a-case-study-on-venezuela/

You didn’t actually ask about unsuccessful cases - the question was any successful one - which I answered- but more detail here if you want to educate yourself

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/15-socialist-countries-succeeded-130731664.html

No need to teach me on Venezuela, thanks and I can sum it up a bit quicker than that article - over dependence on oil revenue, too much public spending and not enough investment in private enterprise- but the biggest issue here is  there were no checks or balances- or indeed effective opposition.

Outside a totalitarian state success for any party left or right needs these checks and balances - small majorities are good (things get done) - big majorities are bad and we saw with the Johnson government and we will again see this time round.

Love to know how you managed to detect an admiration of Corbyn from me - comparing one person favourably on one characteristic is an observation, not an endorsement
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Manwork04
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« Reply #2448 on: October 31, 2024, 18:32:21 pm »

You didn’t actually ask about unsuccessful cases - the question was any successful one - which I answered- but more detail here if you want to educate yourself

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/15-socialist-countries-succeeded-130731664.html

No need to teach me on Venezuela, thanks and I can sum it up a bit quicker than that article - over dependence on oil revenue, too much public spending and not enough investment in private enterprise- but the biggest issue here is  there were no checks or balances- or indeed effective opposition.

Outside a totalitarian state success for any party left or right needs these checks and balances - small majorities are good (things get done) - big majorities are bad and we saw with the Johnson government and we will again see this time round.

Love to know how you managed to detect an admiration of Corbyn from me - comparing one person favourably on one characteristic is an observation, not an endorsement

I don’t think it had a lot to do with O&G, more like corruption, overspending and relying on borrowing.
Punishing the private sector only ends one way, high unemployment, high inflation and economic downturn.
On the bright side we will have a massively bloated public sector on huge wages.
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« Reply #2449 on: October 31, 2024, 20:42:22 pm »

I was disappointed that income tax thresholds did not rise. It was criminal to freeze them, that needs to change ASAP. If the balance has to be a penny rise in income tax, so be it, I am sure a decent economist can work out what sort of threshold rise could make it tax neutral for most and yet still bring in more money to pay for our essential public services.
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« Reply #2450 on: Yesterday at 08:27:45 »

I was disappointed that income tax thresholds did not rise. It was criminal to freeze them, that needs to change ASAP. If the balance has to be a penny rise in income tax, so be it, I am sure a decent economist can work out what sort of threshold rise could make it tax neutral for most and yet still bring in more money to pay for our essential public services.

You expect them to hit themselves..
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« Reply #2451 on: Yesterday at 09:36:24 »

I was disappointed that income tax thresholds did not rise. It was criminal to freeze them, that needs to change ASAP. If the balance has to be a penny rise in income tax, so be it, I am sure a decent economist can work out what sort of threshold rise could make it tax neutral for most and yet still bring in more money to pay for our essential public services.

I wouldn't disagree with this. I also think the whole concept of inheritance tax is unjust. Tax has already been paid (or at least should have been paid) on personal assets by the time a person dies. Why should their beneficiaries also be taxed when they are passed on?

The thresholds are so low that it's not only the mega rich that are affected either,  so the fact they've increased it is out of order.
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« Reply #2452 on: Yesterday at 10:19:32 »

Paying for malingerers and spongers. Under any government.

I didn't realise we are in 2002 and still having this conversation.
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« Reply #2453 on: Yesterday at 14:34:07 »

You expect them to hit themselves..

No, I didn't expect them to, but I am disappointed that they didn't. Same goes with sharing the wealth that the really high earners (both companies and individuals) make from being in this country. Wealth distribution would massively help this country become richer all round and improve the quality of life for the majority of the population.


Hopefully next time, when we start to see longer term improvements and the country remembers that doing things to help society gives us all a better place to live.
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« Reply #2454 on: Yesterday at 14:37:17 »

I didn't realise we are in 2002 and still having this conversation.

I think he means those that rely upon mummy and daddy's trust funds and inheritances. And those who collect shareholder dividends rather than going out and working for a living. I'm sure he doesn't mean those who rely upon public sector pensions to take an early retirement.
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« Reply #2455 on: Yesterday at 16:13:53 »

What are you talking about?
He was jailed for 18 months for contempt of court for repeating claims about a Syrian refugee.
The judge found in favour of the Syrian kid even though numerous children from the school gave evidence backing Robinson’s story, there was no jury and this was the decision of a single judge.
Robinson made a film called silenced where he puts his side of the story.
He refused to take the film down that’s why he’s been jailed, it’s been watch over 55million times.
The Syrian kid was represented by the same legal team that is trying to get Shamima Begum back into the UK.

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Hijazi-v-Yaxley-Lennon-judgment-220721.pdf

All he needed to do was prove what he had said about the "Syrian kid" was substantially true.  He couldn't as is explained in the judgement.

Should have been easy if he had obtained the evidence supporting his claims BEFORE he made the statements.   Grin
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MCHammer
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« Reply #2456 on: Yesterday at 16:20:46 »

I was disappointed that income tax thresholds did not rise. It was criminal to freeze them, that needs to change ASAP. If the balance has to be a penny rise in income tax, so be it, I am sure a decent economist can work out what sort of threshold rise could make it tax neutral for most and yet still bring in more money to pay for our essential public services.

You are the first person I have read that criticises something in the budget but actually provides an alternative solution.  Very easy for people to complain about what should or shouldn't have been done without acknowledging the trade offs that would need to be made if they did/didn't.
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« Reply #2457 on: Yesterday at 21:57:52 »

You are the first person I have read that criticises something in the budget but actually provides an alternative solution.  Very easy for people to complain about what should or shouldn't have been done without acknowledging the trade offs that would need to be made if they did/didn't.

Well once the Comrade Bingers and Comrade Manny Common Sense Coalition comes to power, there will be solutions to all of the problems and the world will be a better place.
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« Reply #2458 on: Yesterday at 22:26:08 »

https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Hijazi-v-Yaxley-Lennon-judgment-220721.pdf

All he needed to do was prove what he had said about the "Syrian kid" was substantially true.  He couldn't as is explained in the judgement.

Should have been easy if he had obtained the evidence supporting his claims BEFORE he made the statements.   Grin
I know another innocent immigrant, just like the one who murdered three innocent young girls, who the mass media and no doubt yourself defended as a Christian from Wales.
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« Reply #2459 on: Yesterday at 23:36:25 »

I know another innocent immigrant, just like the one who murdered three innocent young girls, who the mass media and no doubt yourself defended as a Christian from Wales.

Shame on you.  It's a scumbag move to use the terrible death of those three innocent young girls to score some cheap shot on an internet forum, accusing me and others of defending their murderer. 

Your reply literally has no relevance or truth to anything I said.  You should be ashamed of yourself using the death of those poor girls in this way.

Hopefully it's just the Friday night beers talking and when you've sobered up in the morning you'll withdraw that comment and apologise.

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