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Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV?

Poll
Question: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV?
Yes - 17 (21%)
No - 64 (79%)
Total Voters: 73

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Author Topic: Should The Trust Have Invoked The ACV?  (Read 21140 times)
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« Reply #440 on: April 28, 2022, 10:45:15 am »

Has anyone thought about the common denominator involved when people say that when the Trust was good they were members but now they are s*** they are not, and that they won't rejoin/join until they are good and representative again?

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« Reply #441 on: April 28, 2022, 10:48:22 am »

You can't expect the trust to take notice of opinion polls that go against their own agenda, that would be democratic.
Haha fair point!  Grin
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« Reply #442 on: April 28, 2022, 10:51:27 am »

Unless the website is having a wobble there are only 7 board members. It is also clear that there has been significant board changes over the past couple of years, so bound to lack cohesion and have gaps. This is probably natural as this type of role has a lifespan.
I'm sure they would like all the help they can get. There is certainly the opportunity for a small group to apply to join the board if they are unhappy with the current approach.
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« Reply #443 on: April 28, 2022, 10:55:25 am »

But it sounds like people can’t really change things if the same 12 board members are of the same opinion that the direction of the trust should be solely at the discretion of the board members.

12-15 board members for a trust of a League 2 team seems crazy!
Why do you need 12-15 board members. 4 or 5 would be more than enough to drive forward the opinions of the fans.

What if they were to restructure the board, say have 5 positions to fill and all are voted by the entire trust members, each putting forward their own opinions, then maybe you’d get more members standing.

I’ve heard a few trust members say that they haven’t been called to vote on anything though?

As I say, I’ve never been a member of the trust, so my opinions are solely of an outsider looking in. But It seems like the trust are currently peddling an approach that is the polar opposite to what a majority of fans want, which in my mind should cause the board of the trust to rethink whether they’re listening to the fans.



I agree with every word of that. A couple of weeks ago I actually contemplated trying to get involved but decided against it for two sets of reasons. The first set are personal -  I'm so busy at work at the moment I can't get everything done as it is and with elderly parents to care for and 4 kids to ferry about I barely get to spend any proper time with my wife, so throwing another commitment into the mix just won't work.

The second set are more about the realities of it...

  • On your own you'd be a lone voice against seemingly united board (if the unanimous ACV vote is anything to go by). To have any hope of affecting the sea change that would be required to change the Trust's course you'd need a group of people to run for election together.
  • I'm not currently a member. To get involved I'd have to join and by doing so I'd be effectively adding weight to the numbers used to justify the Trust's reach. It's a catch 22 I know, but it doesn't feel right to me.
  • I don't want to sound rude here but there's no nice way to say it - I don't think I'd get on with many of the existing board because, frankly, a lot of them (and their advisors) just don't come across as very nice people.  It could be they are all lovely in real life and are just unused to dealing with others on social media, but some of them just don't come over very well (I exclude GPC and Andy Roberts from that)
  • This one I really can't quantify, but from reading the minutes and the comms and the articles on the website I just don't think I'd enjoy it. It all just seems so staid, formal, boring and utterly lacking in dynamism. I'd just get frustrated by the "by the book" bureaucracy and structure. This is a view that has only been reinforced by the feedback on the podcast the other day from the guy that attended a Trust meeting.

It's a shame because I really see the value of a supporters trust, I just can't agree with the actions or the conduct of the current board. Part of me genuinely would like to get involved but the bigger part realised it just wouldn't work for me. It would just end up being bad for my health!
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« Reply #444 on: April 28, 2022, 13:44:12 pm »

On your own you'd be a lone voice against seemingly united board

Changing the actual board members minds, is the easy bit..
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« Reply #445 on: April 28, 2022, 15:01:27 pm »

Changing the actual board members minds, is the easy bit..

 Grin
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« Reply #446 on: April 28, 2022, 15:32:30 pm »

But it’s not just the owners, it’s the majority of fans too that they’re fighting as most votes that have been conducted heavily show that the supporters are siding with the owner’s approach on this one.
So in this instance it’s the Trust vs NTFC. Not simply the Trust v the owners.

Have the current board of the trust ever considered putting in an offer to buy the club? As if they’re as much experts as it feels like they are suggesting then I personally would welcome them having a crack at running it. I think we’d all love the club to be owned by fans of the club!
Majority of fans, how do you know?
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« Reply #447 on: April 28, 2022, 15:58:44 pm »

But it sounds like people can’t really change things if the same 12 board members are of the same opinion that the direction of the trust should be solely at the discretion of the board members. OK I'll explain it again, there are currently around 12* board members, If you don't like what they are doing you and 11 like minded people call for an extraordinary GM and put yourselves up for election. If enough people agree with your idea's you get elected and you then dictate the direction of the Trust
12-15 board members for a trust of a League 2 team seems crazy!
Why do you need 12-15 board members. 4 or 5 would be more than enough to drive forward the opinions of the fans. It's in the Trust rules about how many board members are needed, but I think that you have to have a percentage attending the board meetings otherwise it is not a quorum

What if they were to restructure the board, say have 5 positions to fill and all are voted by the entire trust members, each putting forward their own opinions, then maybe you’d get more members standing. That's no different to having 15 but you get a less balanced view, the view of 5 people as opposed to 15

I’ve heard a few trust members say that they haven’t been called to vote on anything though? If there are say 4* vacancies on the Trust board but only 2 people put themselves up for election then there is no vote

As I say, I’ve never been a member of the trust, so my opinions are solely of an outsider looking in. So why not join and if you have enough like minded friends also wiling to join you can change things to how you want them to be


* Made up numbers as I don't know the exact  numbers  Smiley
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« Reply #448 on: April 28, 2022, 16:06:04 pm »

Majority of fans, how do you know?

He literally explained how in the rest of that first sentence.  Grin
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« Reply #449 on: April 28, 2022, 16:43:23 pm »

Majority of fans, how do you know?

I think it’s pretty clear looking at all social media, that a landslide of opinion is in favour of the clubs stance on this. I’m afraid there is no getting away from that.
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« Reply #450 on: April 28, 2022, 19:41:05 pm »

I agree with every word of that. A couple of weeks ago I actually contemplated trying to get involved but decided against it for two sets of reasons. The first set are personal -  I'm so busy at work at the moment I can't get everything done as it is and with elderly parents to care for and 4 kids to ferry about I barely get to spend any proper time with my wife, so throwing another commitment into the mix just won't work.

The second set are more about the realities of it...

  • On your own you'd be a lone voice against seemingly united board (if the unanimous ACV vote is anything to go by). To have any hope of affecting the sea change that would be required to change the Trust's course you'd need a group of people to run for election together.
  • I'm not currently a member. To get involved I'd have to join and by doing so I'd be effectively adding weight to the numbers used to justify the Trust's reach. It's a catch 22 I know, but it doesn't feel right to me.
  • I don't want to sound rude here but there's no nice way to say it - I don't think I'd get on with many of the existing board because, frankly, a lot of them (and their advisors) just don't come across as very nice people.  It could be they are all lovely in real life and are just unused to dealing with others on social media, but some of them just don't come over very well (I exclude GPC and Andy Roberts from that)
  • This one I really can't quantify, but from reading the minutes and the comms and the articles on the website I just don't think I'd enjoy it. It all just seems so staid, formal, boring and utterly lacking in dynamism. I'd just get frustrated by the "by the book" bureaucracy and structure. This is a view that has only been reinforced by the feedback on the podcast the other day from the guy that attended a Trust meeting.

It's a shame because I really see the value of a supporters trust, I just can't agree with the actions or the conduct of the current board. Part of me genuinely would like to get involved but the bigger part realised it just wouldn't work for me. It would just end up being bad for my health!

Thats a great and fair post BOTN

I know it will shock you, but I am a nice guy, honest,  Grin but I am so frustrated at Northampton in general. I travel quite a bit, so I see what other towns and cities are doing, and in Northampton we have a can't do attitude and anything we do do is always underwhelming and on the cheap.

Anybody been past Boston's new ground and set-up ? Great glass fronted main stand with restaurant etc, 4G pitch at the side - Looks amazing for their level plus modern Starbucks and Costa outlets etc nearby.?

I want Northampton and NTFC to be great and so do others, its perhaps just about our levels of belief in our owners, how much they trust what he says and then how much we are bothered to take action
The Trust frustrates me too but it is very difficult to get people to take action, like yourself, there is always a reason not to get involved or do more

The Trust has been on the outside ever since KT arrived -
Again we are trying to PROTECT the football club for the medium and long term.
I have asked many times for those who disagree with me to show and tell me, where I am wrong exactly (and its not about me having to be right) but they never do - like the podcast guy at our meeting but refuses to.

But propaganda and misinformation powerfully put out by the club, with all it's resources, is hard to battle against for a Trust with 8 or so board members on a volunteer basis whilst not spending members donations.

Everybody has slightly different opinions, some are more passive than others, some put in a lot more time than others and yes it is bloody boring talking about certain things. But that is what a Trust has to do, someone has to focus on car boots and paypal  Grin

the test will be in the coming weeks, when the Trust show the plans for the ACV and what it means for NTFC.

I am not sure that any NTFC fan could really be against it, although I expect that KT and some others will try to tie the ACV to the East stand completion.

Given that the East stand completion and ACV had never been mentioned together until the last 6 weeks, it is unacceptable and shameful to use that as a stick against the Trust and ACV







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« Reply #451 on: April 28, 2022, 20:05:41 pm »

Complete aside here but Boston Saturday League side Railway Athletic now play at York St!
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet

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« Reply #452 on: April 28, 2022, 20:30:07 pm »

the test will be in the coming weeks, when the Trust show the plans for the ACV and what it means for NTFC.

It will.  So focus your energies on delivering something positive rather than making excuses or blaming everyone else.
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« Reply #453 on: April 29, 2022, 04:14:19 am »

Thats a great and fair post BOTN

I know it will shock you, but I am a nice guy, honest,  Grin but I am so frustrated at Northampton in general. I travel quite a bit, so I see what other towns and cities are doing, and in Northampton we have a can't do attitude and anything we do do is always underwhelming and on the cheap.

Anybody been past Boston's new ground and set-up ? Great glass fronted main stand with restaurant etc, 4G pitch at the side - Looks amazing for their level plus modern Starbucks and Costa outlets etc nearby.?

I want Northampton and NTFC to be great and so do others, its perhaps just about our levels of belief in our owners, how much they trust what he says and then how much we are bothered to take action
The Trust frustrates me too but it is very difficult to get people to take action, like yourself, there is always a reason not to get involved or do more

The Trust has been on the outside ever since KT arrived -
Again we are trying to PROTECT the football club for the medium and long term.
I have asked many times for those who disagree with me to show and tell me, where I am wrong exactly (and its not about me having to be right) but they never do - like the podcast guy at our meeting but refuses to.

But propaganda and misinformation powerfully put out by the club, with all it's resources, is hard to battle against for a Trust with 8 or so board members on a volunteer basis whilst not spending members donations.

Everybody has slightly different opinions, some are more passive than others, some put in a lot more time than others and yes it is bloody boring talking about certain things. But that is what a Trust has to do, someone has to focus on car boots and paypal  Grin

the test will be in the coming weeks, when the Trust show the plans for the ACV and what it means for NTFC.

I am not sure that any NTFC fan could really be against it, although I expect that KT and some others will try to tie the ACV to the East stand completion.

Given that the East stand completion and ACV had never been mentioned together until the last 6 weeks, it is unacceptable and shameful to use that as a stick against the Trust and ACV


Im sorry Derek I read this and I just have my head in my hands, what in gods name are you talking about? "I have asked many times for those who disagree with me to show and tell me, where I am wrong exactly (and its not about me having to be right) but they never do - like the podcast guy at our meeting but refuses to".

Of course you have to be right. You and the other members of the board have just invoked the ACV potentially loading another 6 months operating debt onto the club? I've explained why in another post and all I got back was classic misdirection of, paraphrasing "there is nothing to stop the East Stand development continuing whist the ACV is in progress". Well, the development will take longer than the 6 month ACV process so this is just more irrelevant smoke and mirrors crap.
How exactly are all these proposals and examples put up for us to aspire to going to be paid for? The club currently has circa a £1 million per annum hole in the budget. Its been suggested that this is somehow inaccurate or down to inappropriate spending or whatever. That's fine but what if it is exactly as per the filed accounts, what are you and those like you going to do then? You're talking about spending god knows how much money when we are in the position of getting nowhere near our operating costs. What you are in essence saying is "don't worry, just have faith that there is enough in there to cover it when the owners stroll off into the sunset". You couldn't even vote on the ACV without fully appreciating or considering the possible consequences, and now you are asking the support base to just follow you with blind faith? Give me an effing break. My evidence is the legally binding filed accounts submitted to the HMRC and independent financial reports from reputable independent organisations saying the losses are bang on average. That's where I am showing you that you are wrong and its been said over and over again. Where is your reputable evidence to refute these facts beyond your subjective opinion?

Don't talk to me about you and those like you being here to protect the club, you are possibly driving the club over the edge of a cliff and if so are taking all of us with you. Until you and your associates have hard evidence to the contrary there is a very real possibility that you are every bit as dangerous as any investor owner. If following all this, and given you are a member of the Board of the Trust if you still think its not about you being right you have absolutely no business sitting on the board of the trust representing the membership. Its actually the polar opposite, you most definitely do need to be right, and have concrete evidence to support this, so demonstrate to the membership the following.

1. Why you believe the club is able to operate on a break even basis to the current operational standards both on and off the pitch. I.E be competitive on the pitch and cover all necessary costs off it. Bear in mind that every single published independent report puts the clubs losses at bang on average. If the club meet your demands and blow any available funds on the East Stand to achieve your expectations or even worse the owners become frustrated at the constant delays and spiralling costs and then walk what is your plan to support the club financially?
2. In addition, how exactly do you intend to finance any improvements to an acceptable standard over and above the levels of the current owners. They are constantly being criticised for it, so how do you propose to finance and rectify these shortcomings moving forward beyond their tenure.

You have chucked your hat into the ring and are now directly affecting outcomes so it is reasonable and fair that you respond to all of this in a respectful and informative manner for supporters (you can slag me off all you like, put lol up 7 times in a row and all the other juvenile b0llocks you get up to, I don't give a sh1t). Like you, I am concerned for the future of the club. However, unlike you as I see it on the one hand we have owners who have bankrolled the club for 7 years and the only debt we have as a result are directors loans. On the other hand we have a group of individuals who have provided nothing but a list of complaints and demands with no real proof they can save and/or run the club if they achieve their ultimate objective, which is a change of owners. My advice is stop fcuking about with our club for the benefit of your own personal crusade and provide some reassurance that you can finance the club if there are consequences, foreseen or otherwise for the actions you have taken. Its your duty and responsibility as a member of the Trust Board to justify your actions and demonstrate why you believe you are right in what you do, so step up or step out.
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« Reply #454 on: April 29, 2022, 06:23:36 am »

Im sorry Derek I read this and I just have my head in my hands, what in gods name are you talking about? "I have asked many times for those who disagree with me to show and tell me, where I am wrong exactly (and its not about me having to be right) but they never do - like the podcast guy at our meeting but refuses to".

Of course you have to be right. You and the other members of the board have just invoked the ACV potentially loading another 6 months operating debt onto the club? I've explained why in another post and all I got back was classic misdirection of, paraphrasing "there is nothing to stop the East Stand development continuing whist the ACV is in progress". Well, the development will take longer than the 6 month ACV process so this is just more irrelevant smoke and mirrors crap.
How exactly are all these proposals and examples put up for us to aspire to going to be paid for? The club currently has circa a £1 million per annum hole in the budget. Its been suggested that this is somehow inaccurate or down to inappropriate spending or whatever. That's fine but what if it is exactly as per the filed accounts, what are you and those like you going to do then? You're talking about spending god knows how much money when we are in the position of getting nowhere near our operating costs. What you are in essence saying is "don't worry, just have faith that there is enough in there to cover it when the owners stroll off into the sunset". You couldn't even vote on the ACV without fully appreciating or considering the possible consequences, and now you are asking the support base to just follow you with blind faith? Give me an effing break. My evidence is the legally binding filed accounts submitted to the HMRC and independent financial reports from reputable independent organisations saying the losses are bang on average. That's where I am showing you that you are wrong and its been said over and over again. Where is your reputable evidence to refute these facts beyond your subjective opinion?

Don't talk to me about you and those like you being here to protect the club, you are possibly driving the club over the edge of a cliff and if so are taking all of us with you. Until you and your associates have hard evidence to the contrary there is a very real possibility that you are every bit as dangerous as any investor owner. If following all this, and given you are a member of the Board of the Trust if you still think its not about you being right you have absolutely no business sitting on the board of the trust representing the membership. Its actually the polar opposite, you most definitely do need to be right, and have concrete evidence to support this, so demonstrate to the membership the following.

1. Why you believe the club is able to operate on a break even basis to the current operational standards both on and off the pitch. I.E be competitive on the pitch and cover all necessary costs off it. Bear in mind that every single published independent report puts the clubs losses at bang on average. If the club meet your demands and blow any available funds on the East Stand to achieve your expectations or even worse the owners become frustrated at the constant delays and spiralling costs and then walk what is your plan to support the club financially?
2. In addition, how exactly do you intend to finance any improvements to an acceptable standard over and above the levels of the current owners. They are constantly being criticised for it, so how do you propose to finance and rectify these shortcomings moving forward beyond their tenure.

You have chucked your hat into the ring and are now directly affecting outcomes so it is reasonable and fair that you respond to all of this in a respectful and informative manner for supporters (you can slag me off all you like, put lol up 7 times in a row and all the other juvenile b0llocks you get up to, I don't give a sh1t). Like you, I am concerned for the future of the club. However, unlike you as I see it on the one hand we have owners who have bankrolled the club for 7 years and the only debt we have as a result are directors loans. On the other hand we have a group of individuals who have provided nothing but a list of complaints and demands with no real proof they can save and/or run the club if they achieve their ultimate objective, which is a change of owners. My advice is stop fcuking about with our club for the benefit of your own personal crusade and provide some reassurance that you can finance the club if there are consequences, foreseen or otherwise for the actions you have taken. Its your duty and responsibility as a member of the Trust Board to justify your actions and demonstrate why you believe you are right in what you do, so step up or step out.

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« Reply #455 on: April 29, 2022, 06:45:59 am »

He literally explained how in the rest of that first sentence.  Grin
What all 63  Grin
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« Reply #456 on: April 29, 2022, 08:56:05 am »

What all 63  Grin

There are a couple of polls running on Facebook that are considerably more conclusive than this one.
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« Reply #457 on: April 29, 2022, 09:28:34 am »

I am not sure that any NTFC fan could really be against it, although I expect that KT and some others will try to tie the ACV to the East stand completion.

Given that the East stand completion and ACV had never been mentioned together until the last 6 weeks, it is unacceptable and shameful to use that as a stick against the Trust and ACV


The single and only reason the ACV can be triggered right now, is because the Council have sought to get a deal to get the East Stand completed.

That is the single, primary reason, that land is currently even being discussed for sale.

It is "unacceptable and shameful" to try and hijack that deal with one that doesn't satisfy that basic criteria.

As I have said previously, any offer for that land that does not include the completion of the East Stand, no matter how shiny and emotional the offer, should be refused. This isn't a dig at the Trust, but it is my stance with whoever seeks to buy it.

There is currently only one deal that satisfies this criteria, I would not be against seeing more.
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« Reply #458 on: April 29, 2022, 10:14:36 am »



It is "unacceptable and shameful" to try and hijack that deal with one that doesn't satisfy that basic criteria.

As I have said previously, any offer for that land that does not include the completion of the East Stand, no matter how shiny and emotional the offer, should be refused. This isn't a dig at the Trust, but it is my stance with whoever seeks to buy it.

There is currently only one deal that satisfies this criteria, I would not be against seeing more.
So why has the "No Stand, no land" been removed from the heads of terms ?
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« Reply #459 on: April 29, 2022, 11:53:57 am »

Firstly, KT is NOT DC. However, some of the patterns are similar, as is some of the chat. Like it or not, we will carry the scars of what happened for some time. The landscape hasn't changed much. We have owners who have invested similar amounts to keep us going. Cardoza was gifted cash, KT is after the land.

The most worrying thing is this photo (that I randomly found) wasn't taken when Cardoza had recently joined, it was from May 2014, OK quite a while before the 'We Want Answers' stuff. Remember even then it was a bun fight. The comments even more telling..."Boring, the anti Cardoza league", "Always someone that manages to find a topic to moan about", "Cardoza put over £8m in". A large proportion of the fanbase and public were hoodwinked.

You could literally change the names and the narrative is the same today. No one may end up being part of a criminal investigation but who is going to be right this time?



P.S. I think this must have been the Oxford game, which is probably in my top 10 Cobblers moments.



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