NHS

[singcobb]

Not having a go, but you did with caveats. My point with all this is no matter how bad the NHS gets, and no matter how good the alternative, the overwhelming majority would never accept pulling the plug. As with your response even when the alternative should be jumped at by comparison, the answer would be accompanied with scepticism. For any politician to even hint at it would be political suicide. Whilst I am no fan of politicians, in their defence they are trying to solve a problem with 2 hands tied behind their backs and a gun to their head. Having had comprehensive first hand experience of both of the systems here and in the UK it is a fact that they are light years apart. But no matter how convincing the argument for an alternative, there is no realistic way of changing it irrespective of the cost in human terms, and with the aging population it is only going to get worse. Even treading water would be a huge achievement, but because of the mindset of the majority there’s sod all anyone can do about it.

With the ageing population issue and the increasing strain it is placing on all services and resources the solution then becomes the "Logan's Run" scenario, or the WEF general de-population scheme.

[Worthless Recluse]

Australia ranks 21st according to this literature, below for example France, Germany and Italy. UK ranks 34th.
https://www.internationalinsurance.com/health/systems/
There's a further link to the pros and cons of some national systems, including Australia, within the list.

[MCHammer]

These other countries including Oz don’t pay national insurance. The free healthcare benchmark is not what it seems.

What if NI was scrapped and health insurance was subsidised by the government for those who could least afford it on a sliding scale. Those that were out of work got it free. What if all medical insurance payments were to a level that was less than average National Insurance payments. What if under such a system hospital wait times were a couple of weeks for everything from minor surgery onwards. What if scans were done same day as requested and the standard of care was in the top 5 in the world instead of the UKs ranking of around 30. Genuine question, in that scenario who would scrap the NHS?

I'd need to understand more about the system you have described.

I don;t know a lot about private medical insurance so apologies if some of my questions are naive.  Does the insurance cover ALL costs for EVERY treatment?  Does every single person get treated in the same facilities and get the same level of care irrespective of whether they are completely/partially or not subsidised at all?  Does the insurance premium change depending on your relative good or bad historical health? 

On the hospital side are they privately owned and for profit?  Same with the Insurance company/companies?

I don't really understand how the figures stack up either.  You've described a world where it costs EVERYONE less and treatment is immediate and perfect for ALL?   

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I'd need to understand more about the system you have described.

I don;t know a lot about private medical insurance so apologies if some of my questions are naive.  Does the insurance cover ALL costs for EVERY treatment?  Does every single person get treated in the same facilities and get the same level of care irrespective of whether they are completely/partially or not subsidised at all?  Does the insurance premium change depending on your relative good or bad historical health? 

On the hospital side are they privately owned and for profit?  Same with the Insurance company/companies?

I don't really understand how the figures stack up either.  You've described a world where it costs EVERYONE less and treatment is immediate and perfect for ALL?   

I can only speak from personal experience. Medical insurance for a family of 5 costs considerably less than my NI contributions did. I have had 3 operations here and never waited longer than 2 weeks for any of them. I have never had to pay any extra. Went to the doctors as had an unusual lump in my leg at 11am and had a scan by 4pm. We have a friend in the UK that was suspected of having cancer and waited 4 and a half months for a scan. I took my daughter to Monash hospital A and E, they had a separate department for kids. Had to wait 30 mins to see a doctor and people were still complaining, I told them they need to go and live in the UK for a while. A pensioner I know near me recently had heart surgery that was fully subsidised and the hospital/care was better than the 3 Shires. If you don’t have health insurance you are means tested. If you fall above the threshold for government subsidy they will still treat you but then charge you and they don’t fúck about collecting the money. That’s probably the big downside. However, subsidies are provided on a sliding scale dependent on income. But with a tax rate that’s slightly lower than the UK with similar living costs, average earnings higher and no NI there’s no excuse for not being insured. Honestly, speaking from personal experience the standard of healthcare here is comparatively incredible. I don’t understand it either, but that’s genuinely my experience.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

[Larry]

I can only speak from personal experience. Medical insurance for a family of 5 costs considerably less than my NI contributions did. I have had 3 operations here and never waited longer than 2 weeks for any of them. I have never had to pay any extra. Went to the doctors as had an unusual lump in my leg at 11am and had a scan by 4pm. We gave a friend in the UK that was suspected of having cancer and waited 4 and a half months for a scan. I took my daughter to Monash hospital A and E, they had a separate department for kids. Had to wait 30 mins wait time to see a doctor and people were still complaining, I told them they need to go and live in the UK for a while. A pensioner I know near me recently had heart surgery that was fully subsidised and the hospital/care was better than the 3 Shires. If you don’t have health insurance you are means tested. If you fall above the threshold for government subsidy they will still treat you but then charge you and they don’t fúck about collecting the money. That’s probably the big downside. However, subsidies are provided on a sliding scale dependent on income. But with a tax rate that’s slightly lower than the UK with similar living costs, average earnings higher and no NI there’s no excuse for not being insured. Honestly, speaking from personal experience the standard of healthcare here is comparatively incredible. I don’t understand it either, but that’s genuinely my experience.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

NI payments are not related to health insurance; they are mainly for your state pension.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

NI payments are not related to health insurance; they are mainly for your state pension.

Either way we don’t pay it.

[Larry]

Either way we don’t pay it.

Dont you pay Superannuation?

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Dont you pay Superannuation?

I paid the same in the UK and before you ask they pay a government pension here.

[Larry]

I paid the same in the UK and before you ask they pay a government pension here.

I'm afraid I dont understand that message.
I expect you pay Superannuation (Super) as the equivalent to the NI in the UK for your pension. Your Medicare (NHS) is funded by general taxation.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

I'm afraid I dont understand that message.
I expect you pay Superannuation (Super) as the equivalent to the NI in the UK for your pension. Your Medicare (NHS) is funded by general taxation.

I pay the same into my private pension in Oz as I did in the UK. However, I pay less tax in Oz, so putting the difference into my Superannuation I end up in pretty much the same position as my private and state pension combined in the UK. It doesn’t matter how you financially divide up the pot, the fact is I pay slightly less in total here and get the healthcare I described, plus more pension. Circa 60 odd percent of people here qualify for state pension anyway, which is means tested. The downside, I don’t qualify for state pension here. But like I said, putting the taxation difference into my private pension along with the difference between healthcare payments and not paying NI, my overall pension will pay a bit more than my pension and state pension combined in the UK, so who cares?

[Bingers]

I pay the same into my private pension in Oz as I did in the UK. However, I pay less tax in Oz, so putting the difference into my Superannuation I end up in pretty much the same position as my private and state pension combined in the UK. It doesn’t matter how you financially divide up the pot, the fact is I pay slightly less in total here and get the healthcare I described, plus more pension. Circa 60 odd percent of people here qualify for state pension anyway, which is means tested. The downside, I don’t qualify for state pension here. But like I said, putting the taxation difference into my private pension along with the difference between healthcare payments and not paying NI, my overall pension will pay a bit more than my pension and state pension combined in the UK, so who cares?

Yeah, but when all is said and done, it's just a bit shît living in Australia rather than The Rose of the Shires. Quality of life and all that, I bet you'd rather be at home in Far Cotton. Not getting sunburnt all the time, running the risk of skin cancer. You are always welcome back Melly.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Yeah, but when all is said and done, it's just a bit shît living in Australia rather than The Rose of the Shires. Quality of life and all that, I bet you'd rather be at home in Far Cotton. Not getting sunburnt all the time, running the risk of skin cancer. You are always welcome back Melly.

I would never say it’s better here, just different. I’m just making the point that the NHS doesn’t have to be the be all and end all. There are other options where even those that struggle financially can be well looked after. At least from what I’ve seen anyway. All a bit of a pointless debate though, because it will never happen.

[Deepcut Cobbler]

Yeah, but when all is said and done, it's just a bit shît living in Australia rather than The Rose of the Shires. Quality of life and all that, I bet you'd rather be at home in Far Cotton. Not getting sunburnt all the time, running the risk of skin cancer. You are always welcome back Melly.

Says he who emigrated to Yorkshire via France...
Missed you yesterday, I was down at the front in the disabled area behind the goal although, with my celebratory dances especially after the third, it's a good job they knew that I was 'the carer'...

[Bingers]

Says he who emigrated to Yorkshire via France...
Missed you yesterday, I was down at the front in the disabled area behind the goal although, with my celebratory dances especially after the third, it's a good job they knew that I was 'the carer'...

I have never lived in France other than 3 - 4 weeks holiday each summer for most of the last 29 years.


Looked out for you and probably wasn't too far along, but missed the dancing on account of hugging complete strangers in celebration of a reet grand day out.

[Manwork04]

I have never lived in France other than 3 - 4 weeks holiday each summer for most of the last 29 years.


Looked out for you and probably wasn't too far along, but missed the dancing on account of hugging complete strangers in celebration of a reet grand day out.

Too many foreigners in France comrade, best give it a wide berth.

[Bingers]

Too many foreigners in France comrade, best give it a wide berth.

Thanks for the top tip Comrade. Can you recommend a good part of our fabulous Empire where I can avoid Johnny Foreigner?

[Tabasco Kid]

Thanks for the top tip Comrade. Can you recommend a good part of our fabulous Empire where I can avoid Johnny Foreigner?

Grytviken, or Port Stanley. The last time that somebody raised a foreign flag there, they ran into a spot of bother.

[Manwork04]

Grytviken, or Port Stanley. The last time that somebody raised a foreign flag there, they ran into a spot of bother.

Hallelujah a patriot, well done mate, show Johnny Foreigner what an empire is all about. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

[guest3687]

Hallelujah a patriot, well done mate, show Johnny Foreigner what an empire is all about. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

Commonwealth!

[singcobb]

Commonwealth!

Why do they call it the Commonwealth. No one has anything in common and certainly no wealth.