NHS

[606 Parklands_Cobbler]

amazing. genuinely.

[Tabasco Kid]

Brexit will have a return on investment, unlike spending money on a war.

I think that you will find that the yanks made a huge profit out of WW11. Heres your bill buddy..
I dread to think how big the bill was that was handed down to Japan.

[singcobb]

Brexit will have a return on investment, unlike spending money on a war.

Yes it will, for the EU.

[Bingers]

There was always going to be short term pain for long term gain with Brexit.
We are all looking at the success of Brexit through a very narrow lens, give it 10 years and things may be a lot different.

Do you want to have a guess about how many years or even decades short term is going to be? Are we thinking of it in terms of since the planet was created?

[Manwork04]

Do you want to have a guess about how many years or even decades short term is going to be? Are we thinking of it in terms of since the planet was created?

Time will tell Bingers.

[Bingers]

Time will tell Bingers.

I await with baited breath. I shan't be holding my breath though or I'll be needing the NHS.

[BackOfTheNet]

Bravo, Keir Starmer!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

[TPFKA Marvo]

Bravo, Keir Starmer!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64279654

The problem is, Labour get elected roughly once every four elections so whatever they do when in power is just a sticking plaster until the Next Tory government. The ONLY way to enforce permanent stable change and to stop the Tories (or Labour) enforcing their doctrine on to the country is to bring in Proportional Representation so that seats in parliament accurately reflect votes cast in the country. At the last election the Tories got 43.6% of the votes which gave them 365 seats which is actually 56.2% of the seats. Contrast that to the Greens that got 2.6% of the total vote but only seat, that's less than 0.2%. If percentage of seats matched percentage of votes cast the 2019 election would have resulted in 283 Tories, 209 Labour, 75 Lib/Dems & 17 Greens instead of 365, 202, 11 & 1. It's time this country joined the rest of the world (Belarus is the only other country in Europe still uses First Past the Post) and adopted PR and then maybe with government by consensus we may be able to solve not only the NHS but all our other problems too.

[BackOfTheNet]

All well and good, but 12 years ago the UK overwhelmingly rejected the idea of switching to PR in a referendum, so there's little chance of it happening any time soon.

[TPFKA Marvo]

All well and good, but 12 years ago the UK overwhelmingly rejected the idea of switching to PR in a referendum, so there's little chance of it happening any time soon.

That wasn't proportional Representation, that was the Alternative Vote and both main parties campaigned against it, as you'd expect seeing as FPTP suits them both. Until every vote counts and people can vote FOR something instead of AGAINST we're f***ed. For a hundred years now we've switched between the Tories and Labour, it's time for an alternative.

[CobblerForever]

Infighting has erupted in Labour ranks over Sir Keir Starmer’s plans to reform the NHS.

Blairite MPs clashed with leftwingers over the future of the health service.

Diane Abbott, Labour MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, tweeted: “Keir Starmer has joined the right in calling for the “reform” of the NHS. And we all know what that means.”

Here we go again.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

It won't make any difference who's in power. looking from the outside, the task in turning that organisation around to perform to a reasonable standard is monumental and probably unachievable?

[Manwork04]

It won't make any difference who's in power. looking from the outside, the task in turning that organisation around to perform to a reasonable standard is monumental and probably unachievable?

I agree Melly it’s broken beyond repair, unfortunately it has become a magnet for the lazy and militant left.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Idealistically speaking the NHS is a fantastic institution that offers everyone free access to healthcare. Unfortunately its unsustainable and all too often unworkable as a general rule.
For a family of 5 my total healthcare bill in Australia is around 3.5k Stirling. The standard of healthcare we get for that is beyond belief. I went to the doctors 6 months ago with an issue that required investigation at 12 and had a CAT scan by 4pm. Wait times for ops are measured in weeks rather than months for minor procedures.
The financial bill would be a concern until you realise that no one pays NI and tax is slightly lower than the UK. Those that struggle financially are assisted by the government. The only people that get screwed here are those that mean test high but blow their money elsewhere. You still get treated but you get the bill.
In an ideal world you would pick the NHS first second and third. The reality is that if a member of my family was to fall ill I would choose that it happened here and it’s absolutely no contest. There is a different way, the problem is it would be political suicide to even contemplate it.

[Lukey]

Look at the start of the pan-dee-mick, we were building hospitals that we didn't have enough staff to fill... If the planning from the start is not right - the rest isn't going to work.

Boris said we were going to get x thousands new police officers - and now the police force is full of paedophiles, rapists and wife beaters.

The sad thing about the strikes is that people will actually die because of them, on the other hand if you give pay rises out easily you will end up with folk going on strike every year.

A nurse could be protesting with a flag on the street while a patient dies, it's one of those things where there are no winners.

[Manwork04]

Idealistically speaking the NHS is a fantastic institution that offers everyone free access to healthcare. Unfortunately its unsustainable and all too often unworkable as a general rule.
For a family of 5 my total healthcare bill in Australia is around 3.5k Stirling. The standard of healthcare we get for that is beyond belief. I went to the doctors 6 months ago with an issue that required investigation at 12 and had a CAT scan by 4pm. Wait times for ops are measured in weeks rather than months for minor procedures.
The financial bill would be a concern until you realise that no one pays NI and tax is slightly lower than the UK. Those that struggle financially are assisted by the government. The only people that get screwed here are those that mean test high but blow their money elsewhere. You still get treated but you get the bill.
In an ideal world you would pick the NHS first second and third. The reality is that if a member of my family was to fall ill I would choose that it happened here and it’s absolutely no contest. There is a different way, the problem is it would be political suicide to even contemplate it.

It’s not free is it, everyone who works pays NI and tax thresholds have been frozen with the upper rate now at £125k.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

It’s not free is it, everyone who works pays NI and tax thresholds have been frozen with the upper rate now at £125k.

Exactly the point. Can’t even have a debate about this though, it’s the political equivalent of putting a loaded gun to your head. The system will have to completely collapse before radical change and reform of healthcare even gets onto the agenda. God knows what the human cost of that will be? I read the most time consuming part of some consultants work is securing beds for their patients. What’s it going to take to get alternatives properly considered without all the fear, bias and hysterics, that by the way shouldn’t have to be part of it.

[BackOfTheNet]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12995495/Wes-Streeting-Labour-nostalgic-NHS.html

A very brave statement given the demographic of their core support but very well said and exactly the type of thing to swing floating voters.

(Sorry it's from the Mail, the first couple of links to this story were behind a paywall)

[EB Claret]

Idealistically speaking the NHS is a fantastic institution that offers everyone free access to healthcare. Unfortunately its unsustainable and all too often unworkable as a general rule.
For a family of 5 my total healthcare bill in Australia is around 3.5k Stirling. The standard of healthcare we get for that is beyond belief. I went to the doctors 6 months ago with an issue that required investigation at 12 and had a CAT scan by 4pm. Wait times for ops are measured in weeks rather than months for minor procedures.
The financial bill would be a concern until you realise that no one pays NI and tax is slightly lower than the UK. Those that struggle financially are assisted by the government. The only people that get screwed here are those that mean test high but blow their money elsewhere. You still get treated but you get the bill.
In an ideal world you would pick the NHS first second and third. The reality is that if a member of my family was to fall ill I would choose that it happened here and it’s absolutely no contest. There is a different way, the problem is it would be political suicide to even contemplate it.

That all sounds great but with the health insurance money and government funding the the Australian health system is about twice as well off as the NHS.
A good case can be made for introducing such a model here but which group of politicians would have the balls to propose it?
Thatcher loathed the NHS but backed away from standing in favour of private health provision in an election she would almost certainly have lost.

[Peter Frost]

Idealistically speaking the NHS is a fantastic institution that offers everyone free access to healthcare. Unfortunately its unsustainable and all too often unworkable as a general rule.
For a family of 5 my total healthcare bill in Australia is around 3.5k Stirling. The standard of healthcare we get for that is beyond belief. I went to the doctors 6 months ago with an issue that required investigation at 12 and had a CAT scan by 4pm. Wait times for ops are measured in weeks rather than months for minor procedures.
The financial bill would be a concern until you realise that no one pays NI and tax is slightly lower than the UK. Those that struggle financially are assisted by the government. The only people that get screwed here are those that mean test high but blow their money elsewhere. You still get treated but you get the bill.

Still cheap compared to Switzerland - about £5k per person p.a. plus an excess of £2.5k and after that you only get reimbursed 90% of the cost (50% if you are treated in a different Canton) - even at that price the service isn't fantastic but typically waiting times are significantly less than in the UK.

……but irrespective of country specifics both example start to illustrate the real cost of healthcare which at the moment the UK is burying it’s head in the sand on - for me a well regulated public/private insurance model is the way to go - sounds like Melly‘s system gets the balance right