Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Where in my original post did I state that the AGM was the more appropriate way to deal with the matter? 

I posted, factually, that there are two different ways it can be done.

You seem to be arguing against an opinion I haven't even expressed yet 

You stated that the democratic process allowed for change. Other than others being put up for a position. I’m not sure how else that can happen. It’s not going to happen outside of an AGM is it.

[FezNTFC]

You stated that the democratic process allowed for change. Other than others being put up for a position. I’m not sure how else that can happen. It’s not going to happen outside of an AGM is it.

Are you saying that there isn't a democratic process for change outside the AGM. Or are you arguing that it's just convoluted?

[Ragdoll Cobbler]

Trust email just sent to it's members...

Supporters Trust AGM - 23 February 2023

ntfctrust1992@gmail.com
 
Dear Member
 
Annual General Meeting
 
Please find enclosed formal notice of our 2022 Annual General Meeting incorporating a form of proxy and a nomination form for election to the Board of NTFC Supporters Ltd (Northampton Town Supporters Trust).
 
The Annual General Meeting of NTFC Supporters Ltd (Northampton Town Supporters Trust) will take place on Thursday 23 February at 7.30pm.
 
The Trust board has vacancies this year and we really need more of our membership to become involved.
 
Please consider if you could become a board member and take the Trust towards its next 30 years. If you would like more information, please get in touch with us.
 
We are also urging members to ‘opt in’ their email address so that it is GDPR compliant, enabling the Trust to communicate more easily, quickly, and cheaply.
 
We will only email you on a monthly basis with news and offers from the Trust, your email will not be shared more widely.
 
If you are not already on our email database please email ntfctrust1992@gmail.com with ‘opt in’.
 
We look forward to you being able to join us on 23 February.
 
Kind regards,
 
J Morgan
 
John Morgan
Acting Secretary
NTFC Supporters Ltd

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

Are you saying that there isn't a democratic process for change outside the AGM. Or are you arguing that it's just convoluted?

I’m assuming that if they want to stay on, the options outside of the AGM are very limited. The current board hold all of the cards if they insist on staying, external to an AGM options are limited.

There absolutely no chance of forming a no confidence vote. Well over 50% of the membership either don’t care or are simply not contactable. At the moment, the board appears (I can only assume) either ambivalent, or oblivious to the impact of their actions.

I agree with you about not wanting to discard the good work that has gone before. But this board beyond the land and stand issues, hasn’t shown an appetite for any other Trust business. It is more akin to a specific working party, than it is a supporters trust

[therealpattcobb]

If someone could put this issue in layman's terms for me I would be grateful. I sort of know what an ACV (often applied to pubs etc yeh?).

Who are Cilldara? Why doesn't the club's bid have an ACV? Or does it?

[guest3571]

If someone could put this issue in layman's terms for me I would be grateful. I sort of know what an ACV (often applied to pubs etc yeh?).

Who are Cilldara? Why doesn't the club's bid have an ACV? Or does it?

An ACV is designed to protect land / buildings that are valuable to the community. You know that bit of fenced off running track that was widely used by the community previously, thats what the Trust are trying to protect Forget the fact that the athletics club now have a much better facility.

The club see the total land of being a benefit to the club as the money from any selling of land or development will go back into the club. The Trust think the owners are a bunch of charlatans who will pocket the money and disappear off into a middle eastern sunset.

Cilldara are a development company who build warehouses. They have no connection to the club. The Trust think that Cilldara building warehouses on the same land (with the exception of a 50m wide strip) is better for the community than the owners of the club building warehouses. Apologies the Trust also want to leave some of it tarmaced for a lorry park with no facilities that will raise more money than the ones with facilities that are right next to the M1.

The Trust got into bed secretly with Cilldara who are also taking the council to court to try to get the land, and tried to hide it. Cilldara then added themselves to the 'enemy' list by trying to run their business and saw an opportunity against a small band of men.

Now the Trust are up a creek without a paddle but rather than pulling the boat over to the side and letting someone onto the boat who has a paddle they are instead flapping about in the water.

For clarity, this may contain bias. for additional clarity 'trust' doesnt mean the trust, it means 2-3 people using the trust for their own personal agenda against the owners. for even more clarity, that last bit of clarity may also contain bias.

I think thats it in laymans terms 

[everbrite]

An ACV is designed to protect land / buildings that are valuable to the community. You know that bit of fenced off running track that was widely used by the community previously, thats what the Trust are trying to protect Forget the fact that the athletics club now have a much better facility.

The club see the total land of being a benefit to the club as the money from any selling of land or development will go back into the club. The Trust think the owners are a bunch of charlatans who will pocket the money and disappear off into a middle eastern sunset.

Cilldara are a development company who build warehouses. They have no connection to the club. The Trust think that Cilldara building warehouses on the same land (with the exception of a 50m wide strip) is better for the community than the owners of the club building warehouses. Apologies the Trust also want to leave some of it tarmaced for a lorry park with no facilities that will raise more money than the ones with facilities that are right next to the M1.

The Trust got into bed secretly with Cilldara who are also taking the council to court to try to get the land, and tried to hide it. Cilldara then added themselves to the 'enemy' list by trying to run their business and saw an opportunity against a small band of men.

Now the Trust are up a creek without a paddle but rather than pulling the boat over to the side and letting someone onto the boat who has a paddle they are instead flapping about in the water.

For clarity, this may contain bias. for additional clarity 'trust' doesnt mean the trust, it means 2-3 people using the trust for their own personal agenda against the owners. for even more clarity, that last bit of clarity may also contain bias.

I think thats it in laymans terms 

Good ol’ Stan. For me it was good but tailed off with a tiny bit of bias?  Good read all the same!

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

An ACV is designed to protect land / buildings that are valuable to the community. You know that bit of fenced off running track that was widely used by the community previously, thats what the Trust are trying to protect Forget the fact that the athletics club now have a much better facility.

The club see the total land of being a benefit to the club as the money from any selling of land or development will go back into the club. The Trust think the owners are a bunch of charlatans who will pocket the money and disappear off into a middle eastern sunset.

Cilldara are a development company who build warehouses. They have no connection to the club. The Trust think that Cilldara building warehouses on the same land (with the exception of a 50m wide strip) is better for the community than the owners of the club building warehouses. Apologies the Trust also want to leave some of it tarmaced for a lorry park with no facilities that will raise more money than the ones with facilities that are right next to the M1.

The Trust got into bed secretly with Cilldara who are also taking the council to court to try to get the land, and tried to hide it. Cilldara then added themselves to the 'enemy' list by trying to run their business and saw an opportunity against a small band of men.

Now the Trust are up a creek without a paddle but rather than pulling the boat over to the side and letting someone onto the boat who has a paddle they are instead flapping about in the water.

For clarity, this may contain bias. for additional clarity 'trust' doesnt mean the trust, it means 2-3 people using the trust for their own personal agenda against the owners. for even more clarity, that last bit of clarity may also contain bias.

I think thats it in laymans terms 

In a nutshell.

[BackOfTheNet]

If someone could put this issue in layman's terms for me I would be grateful. I sort of know what an ACV (often applied to pubs etc yeh?).

Who are Cilldara? Why doesn't the club's bid have an ACV? Or does it?

Shall I have a go?

The ACV was taken out by the Trust to protect the stadium from being redeveloped at any point. I think we all thought that was a good thing at the time, but the area covered by it also included the athletics track.

ACVs are a bit of a paper tiger really. They don't provide any solid protection, they just say that if at any point the owner of the asset wants to dispose of it then the holder of the ACV essentially gets a period of time in which they have first refusal. If they indicate that they do want to make a bid then it triggers a further period of time in which they can come up with a bid.

In the case of Sixfields, on the very last day of this period the Trust announced they were bidding £3m for the land. Not just the area of the athletics track covered by the ACV, but the whole lot right up to the the gravel car park and including the hard surface car park between the tip and the bowling alley.

Obviously the Trust don't have £3m so the money had come from elsewhere.

In parallel to all this, a land remediation/development company called Cildara were bidding against the club for the same land, minus the ACV part. They actually bid more per acre than the club, but the council opted to accept the club's bid rather than Cildara's, largely I suspect because the club say they will complete the East Stand if they win.

Cildara didn't like this and launched a legal challenge, not so much to the decision as the process that the council followed to reach that decision. This process is still on going. If Cildara win, the whole bidding process restarts. It's being played out on semantics, really. The council can still choose the club's bid, they will just have to be a bit more watertight in how they reach that decision.

This week the Trust announced that their bid had fallen through because their partner, who they had refused to name, was being unreasonable in some of the terms they were laying down, as were the council.

On the back of this, and presumably out of spite, Cildara then announced that they had been the Trust's partner in this bid. I guess launching a further bid in partnership with the Trust gave them a degree of credibility ("hey, look, we might not have any link to the club but the supporters trust are backing us so we can't be all bad") and in return for their endorsement Cildara were going to "give" them the ACV land (although it appears to be in the detail of how exactly this was going to work that the deal fell through)

So the Trust have been working with the very same third party that are bidding against the club and are currently blocking the sale of the land to the club with a legal challenge. I'll leave you to decide what you think about this.

For the record, I don't disagree with a word of Stan's account, I just thought I'd provide a slant with less bias.

Edit: it's probably also worth mentioning that the ACV bolt has now been well and truly shot. Now the Trust have withdrawn their bid the ACV has expired and would need to be reapplied for and the council have indicated that they won't look favourably on any new application based upon how long the athletics track has stood derelict. This also means the stadium itself is no longer covered by an ACV.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

As a backdrop to this I would include the mission statement of the Trust. The question members need to ask is have the board conducted themselves in accordance with the mission statement and adhered to the  standards they have identified as part of their commitment to the members.

MISSION STATEMENT NTFC SUPPORTERS LTD

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community
To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton
Our commitment to our members

We commit to being democratic, open, inclusive and accountable to the membership. Annual elections will be held for membership of the NTFC Supporters Limited Board - a third of the posts being open to election each year.

The position of Supporters’ Representative on the board of NTFC will be open to election of any NTFC Supporters Limited board member.

To encourage at least two NTFC Supporters Limited members, who are not board members, and representation of other NTFC supporters groups who are in sympathy with our aims and objectives, to attend regular meetings of the board.

Through effective and efficient governance and financial management we commit to sound management of members’ investment on a not-for profit basis. Our accounts are annually submitted for an Independent Reporting Accountant's Report.

Our commitment to NTFC and football in Northampton

We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters.

[guest3574]

As a backdrop to this I would include the mission statement of the Trust. The question members need to ask is have the board conducted themselves in accordance with the mission statement and adhered to the  standards they have identified as part of their commitment to the members.

MISSION STATEMENT NTFC SUPPORTERS LTD

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community
To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton
Our commitment to our members

We commit to being democratic, open, inclusive and accountable to the membership. Annual elections will be held for membership of the NTFC Supporters Limited Board - a third of the posts being open to election each year.

The position of Supporters’ Representative on the board of NTFC will be open to election of any NTFC Supporters Limited board member.

To encourage at least two NTFC Supporters Limited members, who are not board members, and representation of other NTFC supporters groups who are in sympathy with our aims and objectives, to attend regular meetings of the board.

Through effective and efficient governance and financial management we commit to sound management of members’ investment on a not-for profit basis. Our accounts are annually submitted for an Independent Reporting Accountant's Report.

Our commitment to NTFC and football in Northampton

We commit to supporting the aims and objectives of NTFC where, in the opinion of the board, these are not in direct conflict with the needs and best interests of supporters.

This needs looking at

[guest3571]

This needs looking at

So does this

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters

and this

To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community

[guest3574]

So does thisand this

I agree with you Stan

[guest3571]

To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton

Also why are the supporters Trust belittling the club by only ensuring a Football League Club?! Surely if they were real supporters they would have ambitions to be a Premier League club, not just languishing in the football league for the rest of time. Shows how little they actually think of Northampton Town FC

[MCHammer]

MISSION STATEMENT NTFC SUPPORTERS LTD

To be open, democratic and inclusive in considering the needs and ideas of supporters
To promote and strengthen the bonds between NTFC, its supporters and the wider community
To safeguard a professional Football League club in Northampton

Just looking at these three statements in isolation.  It's almost like they have tried to do the exact opposite.  I'm sure they will claim different but I could probably list 4/5 examples of the top of my head where they have broken this mission statement over the last few years....in fact just this week.  

[MCHammer]

In parallel to all this, a land remediation/development company called Cildara were bidding against the club for the same land, minus the ACV part. They actually bid more per acre than the club, but the council opted to accept the club's bid rather than Cildara's, largely I suspect because the club say they will complete the East Stand if they win.

On this point I think it's probably worth mentioning the leasehold situation over ALL of the land both Running track ACV and the development land.

The club are in control of long term leases (100 year+) over all this land.  So in essence anyone purchasing the freehold to any of this land would have to either legally find a way to break the existing leases or work with and obtain approval from the football club in order to do anything at all with the land.

While completion of the East Stand was a major positive of the deal from a council perspective legally the ownership of these leases was far more important in the justifciation for their decision.

[MCHammer]

Statement from the Trust in response to the calls for the Board to step down.

https://www.ntfctrust.co.uk/news/article/trust-response-to-a-call-for-the-board-to-step-down

[MCHammer]

Also worth reading this Tweet from a board member yesterday...

https://twitter.com/KB127/status/1620876230865342466

"We only backed obtaining the ACV land for club benefit, frankly as long as it was legal I didn't care who was helping us to do so. Yes it went wrong, but we walked away as soon as it turned into a worse deal for the club. I agree with every word of that post, what's their goal?"

The post referred to is a screenshot of Randoms lengthy rant on here the other day.

[guest3571]

Also worth reading this Tweet from a board member yesterday...

https://twitter.com/KB127/status/1620876230865342466

"We only backed obtaining the ACV land for club benefit, frankly as long as it was legal I didn't care who was helping us to do so. Yes it went wrong, but we walked away as soon as it turned into a worse deal for the club. I agree with every word of that post, what's their goal?"

The post referred to is a screenshot of Randoms lengthy rant on here the other day.

And as long as it wasnt the people who actually own the club.

Walked away makes it sound much more magnanimous than the statement from Cilldara, and isnt it telling that I believe a third parties version of the truth over the group that are supposed to be protecting the club.

[random1]

They've consistently berated KTs lack of communication, unwillingness to listen/engage with the fanbase and inability to get a job done. How ironic.
All the trust have done for me now is to completely understand why the club want nothing to do with them. We need a more forward thinking board who are able to re-engage with the club and work towards a common goal.
KT/DB do not want to fail, they don't want to see the club collapse... but of course they want to have a financially viable business, and a football club in it's own right is never going to be that - anyone thinking otherwise is deluded. That will be that same for any owner and looking around the league at the moment, the trust and their supporters need to be careful for what they wish for. The club needs sustainability and a foundation to build on, not a new owner on a vanity or passion project.

We could not disclose much at the time due to 1. KT picking up the phone and doing his best to destroy it just like he did with GWS. 2. The whole bid process was still ongoing and we wanted to have some clearer for fans

But again we have received a non-stop tirade of abuse and bias fo trying to protect the running track from being built on with warehouse and no sporting benefit as previously promised

I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND PEOPLE AGAIN  1. KT SOLD THE CLUB FOR £6.68M AND DIDNT TELL YOU AND 2. CILDARA & KT/DB WERE IN DISCUSSIONS FOR 6 MONTHS TO BUY THE CLUB - They didnt tell you.

I am sorry we have tried to explain many many times, we have asked for help and assistance many many many times, at least we took some action - we didn't set behind our keyboards with fake names and moan and moan and moan.

If you weren't moaning you were making excuses as to why you could't get involved like BOTN classics i had to baby sit last min etc etc  i want to get involved but i haven't got the time etc etc