Tabasco Kid
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I hope you guys spend tomorrow afternoon at Sixfields rather on a keyboard belting out sweet nothings about the ACV land/Trust/Council/NTFC. Its not you that guys can change anything before the upcoming Trust AGM?
#Support your Club - CfE
Read the title of the thread..
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Were in the pipe 5 by 5.
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BackOfTheNet
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I think Cildara have shown themselves to be quite duplicitous and manipulative so while they keep saying they are confident of winning I wouldn't read too much into that.
They may be right, but they are hardly going to be swanning around pre-judgment saying "Oh, we're never going to win but we might as well have a go" are they?
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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Peter Frost
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I think Cildara have shown themselves to be quite duplicitous and manipulative so while they keep saying they are confident of winning I wouldn't read too much into that.
They may be right, but they are hardly going to be swanning around pre-judgment saying "Oh, we're never going to win but we might as well have a go" are they?
Agreed - anyone who publicly boasts about likelihood of winning a JD is going to irritate those making that judgement - ultimately it will be decided on a judge’s interpretation of law and judges are apparently human……….
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Peter Frost
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I don't know who dropped the remark 'people like you want the Trust to be a referendum party', back to Peter Frost, but it's probably quite appropriate and succinct for your good self?
I think you misunderstand my point if you are applying to Melly - my issue was I had clearly stated a board of directors are appointed to make decisions on behalf of its members - however particularly for a trust type organisation, for major issues (like invoking the ACV and the very different issue of partnering with Cildara) they should canvas their members - in typical distraction tactics the first part of my statement was ignored and the accusation as mentioned made. Of course in polarised arguments people use or ignore the facts that suit their argument and the major one that is doing the rounds now is partnering with Cildara was simply just an extension of invoking the ACV - it’s patently not but repeat it enough times and people might start believing it.
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Peter Frost
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I hope you guys spend tomorrow afternoon at Sixfields rather on a keyboard belting out sweet nothings about the ACV land/Trust/Council/NTFC. Its not you that guys can change anything before the upcoming Trust AGM?
#Support your Club - CfE
I’m doing both you will be pleased to hear
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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Dont mean to be dismissive but I'm not sure what relevance any of this has to my point?
Your point was about the dialogue, or lack of. And the value of, or lack of again, of appointing people that KT likes. I was illustrating that it doesn’t matter who is appointed. The current Trust model is obsolete. It’s not fit for purpose in modern football. I then went on to highlight further (not necessarily in the context of my reply to you). How the current Trust board have carried out an unforgivable act in aligning themselves, with what could be the destroyers of league football in this town.
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Worthless Recluse
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Your point was about the dialogue, or lack of. And the value of, or lack of again, of appointing people that KT likes.
I was illustrating that it doesn’t matter who is appointed. The current Trust model is obsolete. It’s not fit for purpose in modern football.
I then went on to highlight further (not necessarily in the context of my reply to you). How the current Trust board have carried out an unforgivable act in aligning themselves, with what could be the destroyers of league football in this town.
I disagree. The position held by the other Tom does not negate the need for a Trust. It might in your mind, it might in KT's mind or Tracey Crouch's mind (thats her isn't it?)but not mine or I'm sure several others. In your opinion that's what they have done. You have not said whether that is by default or if you think it was a deliberate act (to sabotage league football). They I'm sure will provide you with a reason why they have taken the route they have if they have not already done so.
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HanleyplayedFender.
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everbrite
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I’m doing both you will be pleased to hear 👍
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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Peter Frost
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In your opinion that's what they have done. You have not said whether that is by default or if you think it was a deliberate act (to sabotage league football). They I'm sure will provide you with a reason why they have taken the route they have if they have not already done so.
I don’t think there is a single person who posts on here or indeed the much wider supporter base that thinks the Trust’s actions were a deliberate act to sabotage league football and putting aside egos, having always to be right and taking any steps to stop KT/DB getting the land I’m personally sure the intentions were absolutely directed to what they thought was best for the football club - however actions have consequences and good intentions don’t always deliver the right result - it’s the shocking lack of inclusion and accountability before, during and after these actions that means for me, certain individuals have no credibility for future representation for what’s best for our club.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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I disagree. The position held by the other Tom does not negate the need for a Trust. It might in your mind, it might in KT's mind or Tracey Crouch's mind (thats her isn't it?)but not mine or I'm sure several others. In your opinion that's what they have done. You have not said whether that is by default or if you think it was a deliberate act (to sabotage league football). They I'm sure will provide you with a reason why they have taken the route they have if they have not already done so.
I’m totally with Pete’s opinion on this. However, there is absolutely no escape from the fact that it was crass and ill conceived. The lack of inclusion and communication with those that you serve, is beyond belief. It shows a complete misreading of the support base, and more so of a strategy to promote the supports thoughts. They have behaved like an unguided missile. And like an unguided missile, they have landed miles wide of what should have been the target.
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MCHammer
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I don’t think there is a single person who posts on here or indeed the much wider supporter base that thinks the Trust’s actions were a deliberate act to sabotage league football and putting aside egos, having always to be right and taking any steps to stop KT/DB getting the land I’m personally sure the intentions were absolutely directed to what they thought was best for the football club - however actions have consequences and good intentions don’t always deliver the right result - it’s the shocking lack of inclusion and accountability before, during and after these actions that means for me, certain individuals have no credibility for future representation for what’s best for our club.
You are being too generous. They wanted the ACV land at any cost. They fully understood the consequences to the owners and by association the football club of the development land going elsewhere and that was deemed preferable. They wanted to damage the owners and set in motion a series of events they couldn't control and that could have caused untold damage to the club. There were 3 reasons for that. To get the ACV land, to remove the owners and to heroically ride in and save the day when it all goes wrong. One of the lead instigaters and influencers behind this plan being the unelected, Cildara/Trust Legal advisor. For anyone nervous for my pension pot, don't worry. I've taken legal advice and you can't defame someone if you are telling the truth. Tell you what next time Random pops his head up ask him whether they discussed the consequences of the joint bid with Cilldara and what plans they were making when it went tits up for the owners. Wonder if you'll get the truth? No matter what people think of him one thing KT was spot on about. The Trust claim they are here for a rainy day but they sure are/were trying to make it rain.
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Worthless Recluse
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I don’t think there is a single person who posts on here or indeed the much wider supporter base that thinks the Trust’s actions were a deliberate act to sabotage league football and putting aside egos, having always to be right and taking any steps to stop KT/DB getting the land I’m personally sure the intentions were absolutely directed to what they thought was best for the football club - however actions have consequences and good intentions don’t always deliver the right result - it’s the shocking lack of inclusion and accountability before, during and after these actions that means for me, certain individuals have no credibility for future representation for what’s best for our club.
Completely agree no one thinks that, but disagree with Terry that Cilldara could become a destroyer of league football in Northampton.
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HanleyplayedFender.
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guest3551
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Cilldara it is then. They should do well.
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Worthless Recluse
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I’m totally with Pete’s opinion on this. However, there is absolutely no escape from the fact that it was crass and ill conceived. The lack of inclusion and communication with those that you serve, is beyond belief. It shows a complete misreading of the support base, and more so of a strategy to promote the supports thoughts.
They have behaved like an unguided missile. And like an unguided missile, they have landed miles wide of what should have been the target.
They behaved like an unguided missile? More like a cocked rifle.
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HanleyplayedFender.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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I’m totally with Pete’s opinion on this. However, there is absolutely no escape from the fact that it was crass and ill conceived. The lack of inclusion and communication with those that you serve, is beyond belief. It shows a complete misreading of the support base, and more so of a strategy to promote the supports thoughts.
They have behaved like an unguided missile. And like an unguided missile, they have landed miles wide of what should have been the target.
Indeed, a textbook example of what happens when ill conceived ideologies are let off the leash, allowed to shut out anyone with opposing views and given the keys to the kingdom.
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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Completely agree no one thinks that, but disagree with Terry that Cilldara could become a destroyer of league football in Northampton.
Do you? Well…. I readily accept that Cildara have no reason to show any mercy or clemency towards the club. They are a property development company, with no association or affiliation with the club or its supporters. The single act that Cildara has directly transcended anything to do with the supporters. Was the Trust board aligning themselves with them. A decision made irrespective of the thoughts of their membership. And certainly irrespective of the other 3K - 4K of regularly attending supporters. So that outlines some of the Trust and Cildaras initial gambit. Now let’s play out the rest of this potential scenario. The Trust boards (now ex) bedfellows win the judicial review. Which I believe there is a very realistic chance of. KT and DB find themselves saddled with over 5 million pounds debt, with absolutely no realistic way of servicing it. Putting aside any talk about what they should have done. They wake up the morning after they have lost the JR, sitting on a mountain of debt, and nothing more than a lease for the ground in their hands. I can only see one of two things happening at that point. Insolvency, or a gradual and sustained decline of the club over the next few years. At the moment. The imaginary notion that many had, that KT and DB would have used the land, serviced the debt, then they just f*** off, looks very attractive now 😀😀. Although I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that this is the case. Remember……. This theory has been peddled without one ounce of evidence to back it.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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Do you? Well…. I readily accept that Cildara have no reason to show any mercy or clemency towards the club. They are a property development company, with no association or affiliation with the club or its supporters. The single act that Cildara has directly transcended anything to do with the supporters. Was the Trust board aligning themselves with them. A decision made irrespective of the thoughts of their membership. And certainly irrespective of the other 3K - 4K of regularly attending supporters.
So that outlines some of the Trust and Cildaras initial gambit. Now let’s play out the rest of this potential scenario. The Trust boards (now ex) bedfellows win the judicial review. Which I believe there is a very realistic chance of. KT and DB find themselves saddled with over 5 million pounds debt, with absolutely no realistic way of servicing it. Putting aside any talk about what they should have done. They wake up the morning after they have lost the JR, sitting on a mountain of debt, and nothing more than a lease for the ground in their hands.
I can only see one of two things happening at that point. Insolvency, or a gradual and sustained decline of the club over the next few years.
At the moment. The imaginary notion that many had, that KT and DB would have used the land, serviced the debt, then they just f*** off, looks very attractive now 😀😀. Although I haven’t seen one shred of evidence that this is the case. Remember……. This theory has been peddled without one ounce of evidence to back it.
Thing is Tel is whilst a theory it’s also an obvious possibility. You can argue all day about how possible because that’s subjective and the only people who have a clear idea are the owners. The thing with any well considered plan is to have a contingency for each reasonable scenario. So what was the contingency when the alliance with Cilldara was entered into? I believe there probably was one, it’s unthinkable that there wasn’t. If so perhaps it is still an option, how viable is another question?
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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Deepcut Cobbler
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Thing is Tel is whilst a theory it’s also an obvious possibility. You can argue all day about how possible because that’s subjective and the only people who have a clear idea are the owners. The thing with any well considered plan is to have a contingency for each reasonable scenario. So what was the contingency when the alliance with Cilldara was entered into? I believe there probably was one, it’s unthinkable that there wasn’t. If so perhaps it is still an option, how viable is another question?
"We were at a much earlier stage, the plan was to safeguard the ACV first, then look at how to utilise it for club benefit. But 100% of any profit would have been for NTFC benefit which is more detail than we've had from the owners about their plans."
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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Thing is Tel is whilst a theory it’s also an obvious possibility. You can argue all day about how possible because that’s subjective and the only people who have a clear idea are the owners. The thing with any well considered plan is to have a contingency for each reasonable scenario. So what was the contingency when the alliance with Cilldara was entered into? I believe there probably was one, it’s unthinkable that there wasn’t. If so perhaps it is still an option, how viable is another question?
I have no idea what the Trust contingency was. But if you read their statement regarding why they pulled out. Not only does it not mention any back up. It reads (and can only comment on my interpretation) that there’s virtually no signed accord on what either Cildara or the council could do.
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