Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields

[EB Claret]

Genuine question.
Does anyone know or would anyone like to hazard a guess what would have happened to the club if Cilldara had purchased the club from DB, and more generally how things would have panned out regards the surrounding land?

I obviously don't know what would have happened so I'll hazard a guess.
I guess that Cilldara would have bought the football club because the club owned the leases to all the land.
Next step would be to buy the land to which they now hold all the leases including the ACV land.
The football club would then be an unwanted inconvenience, so sell it, possibly for a pound and build warehouses on all the land including the ACV area.
The new owners are then left with an unfinished football stadium, completely hemmed in by warehouses.
Cilldara walk away smiling whilst counting their profit.

[DavCobb]

A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!

No need to bring porn into it  

I think you actually hold the majority view. When the council built Sixfields, no one said “Ooh, that plot of toxic wasteland will bankroll the club in the future.”

The sooner a line is drawn under it, the sooner we can see what we’re left with. Maybe the Trust can find a new partner who wants to play football chairman. We’ve always been assured there’s plenty of interest.

[Manwork04]

No need to bring porn into it  

I think you actually hold the majority view. When the council built Sixfields, no one said “Ooh, that plot of toxic wasteland will bankroll the club in the future.”

The sooner a line is drawn under it, the sooner we can see what we’re left with. Maybe the Trust can find a new partner who wants to play football chairman. We’ve always been assured there’s plenty of interest.

There is FACT.

[Alfred]

my question is …
Once the land deal goes through , warehouses are built , the stand is finished to minimum spec ….  and everyone gets their money plus we get a four sided ground ….
Then what ?
Who will then be interested in things moving forwards ?

Maybe,  just Maybe it will be the people who are running it now,  who if you speak to the staff that work for him is doing a pretty good job.  The sale of the land unlocks the future,  with bleak if NTFC don't get the land or a more positive future if we do.

If, post Cardoza we end up debt free with a 4 sided ground then that might be the best,  worst outcome we can hope for.  

[guest3574]

FACTS can be proven, care to share?

[Manwork04]

Maybe,  just Maybe it will be the people who are running it now,  who if you speak to the staff that work for him is doing a pretty good job.  The sale of the land unlocks the future,  with bleak if NTFC don't get the land or a more positive future if we do.

If, post Cardoza we end up debt free with a 4 sided ground then that might be the best,  worst outcome we can hope for.  

Didn’t we have a four sided ground before Dozy and KT arrived, except in a much better condition?
Oh and adequate hard standing car park. The infrastructure at sixseats has gone exponentially backwards FACT.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

None. But I now sense that's an area you'd rather not go down.

I very much doubt that. Unlike most I have offered my opinion in person to the Trust, they chose not to take the offer up. I did the same with KT. He was a lot more receptive to constructive criticism.

I get the feeling you are starting to see this as you holding a bit of an audience. I have no need for that. So I'm going to bow out for a while, and let those who deal better with those who's oxygen is attention.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!

Here here

[Alfred]

Didn’t we have a four sided ground before Dozy and KT arrived, except in a much better condition?
Oh and adequate hard standing car park. The infrastructure at sixseats has gone exponentially backwards FACT.

and there are 10 million reasons why

[guest3574]

I very much doubt that. Unlike most I have offered my opinion in person to the Trust, they chose not to take the offer up. I did the same with KT. He was a lot more receptive to constructive criticism.

I get the feeling you are starting to see this as you holding a bit of an audience. I have no need for that. So I'm going to bow out for a while, and let those who deal better with those who's oxygen is attention.

Wise words, too easy to get sucked in

[BedsCobb]

Beds, think this  answers your question. Please tell me where I am wrong

I'm afraid you're very much wrong.

Cildarra/ cdnl thomas want as much land at Sixfields for as little outlay as they can get away with..
 Which of these very bad deals is the better one is not really a question that should ever be entertainment.
As the Football club of Northampton is part of the Sixfields landscape, its supporters and local folk have an absolute right to demand better than what is being offered, which at this moment 8 years on is nothing at all!

If one or the other could broker a deal that includes and guarantees the following...
1 . A finished East stand to a satisfactory completion.
2. 2000 capacity increase to the south side of the stadium.
3. A buffer zone between the warehouse and football stadium of 30m to be used for the clubs use , fan Village,  kids football tournament,  etc..

Then they have my and everywhere ntfc fans full support.

As you didn't disagree with the above,I can now assume you too are a fan of ntfc and not as I feared, a plant to divide and weaken  the support base thus allowing cdnl a walk over to vast amounts of undeserved riches.
Please accept my apologies as we head forward in a united front seeking only what's best for Northampton Town and not greedy speculators.

[guest2995]

Maybe,  just Maybe it will be the people who are running it now,  who if you speak to the staff that work for him is doing a pretty good job.  The sale of the land unlocks the future,  with bleak if NTFC don't get the land or a more positive future if we do.

If, post Cardoza we end up debt free with a 4 sided ground then that might be the best,  worst outcome we can hope for.  

I am not saying you are wrong or that it’s not a happy camp .
But you are making some assumptions there .
Mainly that everyone will maintain interest once the money is through and that it will benefit us .
i wish i shared your optimism

[BackOfTheNet]

I'm afraid you're very much wrong.

Cildarra/ cdnl thomas want as much land at Sixfields for as little outlay as they can get away with..
 Which of these very bad deals is the better one is not really a question that should ever be entertainment.
As the Football club of Northampton is part of the Sixfields landscape, its supporters and local folk have an absolute right to demand better than what is being offered, which at this moment 8 years on is nothing at all!

If one or the other could broker a deal that includes and guarantees the following...
1 . A finished East stand to a satisfactory completion.
2. 2000 capacity increase to the south side of the stadium.
3. A buffer zone between the warehouse and football stadium of 30m to be used for the clubs use , fan Village,  kids football tournament,  etc..

Then they have my and everywhere ntfc fans full support.

As you didn't disagree with the above,I can now assume you too are a fan of ntfc and not as I feared, a plant to divide and weaken  the support base thus allowing cdnl a walk over to vast amounts of undeserved riches.
Please accept my apologies as we head forward in a united front seeking only what's best for Northampton Town and not greedy speculators.

You know the provisional plans the club have submitted show a 50m gap between the ground and the warehouse development, right?

We as fans can demand all we want, we have no clout whatsoever though so it's all just so much noise. To paraphrase Bad Santa, wish into one hand and shìt into the other, see which one fills up first."

[random1]

A (very) rare interjection from me on this subject!

The sooner the above happens, as far as I'm concerned the bloody better. Since The Cardoza's showed up (20 odd years ago or whenever it was) our club has been the porn in a land deal. Until the land 'is gone' that will remain the case.

I reckon history will show that Football Clubs and land deals do not end well. Not for the football clubs themselves, that is.

When the land is gone, we will end up with owners (whoever they are) who are here purely for the football club itself. Because why wouldn't we? There wouldn't be anything in it for a group/individual hoping to make a profit.

Say we'd hung onto the ACV land. In my opinion and my opinion only, that would have dragged things along for evermore.

I have what I believe to be a minority view of looking at it. That' s fine because it's all very subjective, anyway!

Hi Drilling, I could understand and agree with what you said if the ACV bit was a big portion of the enabling development but it isn't.

There are 18 other acres to develop and profit from

So surely its not too much to ask to keep the ACV in the club's back pocket for future investment?

IMHO It comes down to pure greed and no interest in the medium / long term future of NTFC.

It wouldn't be so bad if we knew EXACTLY what NTFC & supporters would gain from a: the whole deal and B: the ACV bit

But of course we don't - nothing in terms of details despite KT having a media team and local media on speed dial.

[random1]

I obviously don't know what would have happened so I'll hazard a guess.
I guess that Cilldara would have bought the football club because the club owned the leases to all the land.
Next step would be to buy the land to which they now hold all the leases including the ACV land.
The football club would then be an unwanted inconvenience, so sell it, possibly for a pound and build warehouses on all the land including the ACV area.
The new owners are then left with an unfinished football stadium, completely hemmed in by warehouses.
Cilldara walk away smiling whilst counting their profit.

You can very easily replace Cildara with KT / DC but instead of paying circa £6m, they would have paid £1 (to DC), £166k to HMRC and £870k to WNC

[random1]

No need to bring porn into it  

I think you actually hold the majority view. When the council built Sixfields, no one said “Ooh, that plot of toxic wasteland will bankroll the club in the future.”

The sooner a line is drawn under it, the sooner we can see what we’re left with. Maybe the Trust can find a new partner who wants to play football chairman. We’ve always been assured there’s plenty of interest.

There has been plenty of interest but each time the buyers walk away with very strong rumours of bad business practice (ie changing the price) each time.

You only have to look into the whole Chinese saga and you will find a deal like no other

And that is the problem today, would not be surprised if Cildara and KT were working together again - no evidence but all very strange lately - starting with KT insisting I clarify if the £3m investment funds are actually in our bank account.

3 weeks later or so, Cildara, who up to that point had played a very straight bat & reliable, suddenly moved the pitch (let alone the goal posts) and strangely was followed up by McBride declaring they were our investment partners, despite previously insisting on watertight non disclosure.

Very strange - might be me & 2+2= 367 but it could be closer to 4.  and then what???

 

[MCHammer]

I wonder why some Trust supporting folk are spending so much time telling everyone to "look over the there, nothing to see here".

It's because there is still plenty to see here from a Trust Board perspective.  Anyone remember when Random turned up a few days ago offering to answer any questions anyone had.  He answered two questions then made a swift exit.  Now I know and the Trust Board know there is a whole bunch more to this story.  I've had no legal threats so far which probably tells it's own story.

Anyone remember the phrases open, honest and accountable.  Protecting the existence of the football club.

They weren't even going to tell you their partner was Cilldara let alone everything else they had been up to.

Do you reckon Cilldara just turned up and offered the deal?  What was the specific role of the unelected advisor in all of this?  Just an unelected innocent legal advisor.

In fact rather than telling everyone what the agreement was with Cilldara why don't they just pop the Heads Of Terms on their website for everyone to see.

Perhaps they could share the minutes of the secret meetings they were holding just before they put in the bid, explain who they were with and what the purpose of them were?

We know they understood exactly what they were doing and how damaging it would be to the owners and the football club.  Ask them who they were having discussions with to "save the day" from the damage THEY were planning to instigate.  As Tel pointed out the other day if they have a wealthy backer....hint secret meetings....why didn't they just bid for the land with them?  What would be the benefit of seeing the dev land go elsewhere....wonder what the price of the football club would be if it's in chaos and the owners have significant debt with no means of repayment.  Imagine how many years you could dine out on saving the day.  

Of course none of the Current Board or advisors will answer this cause the plan all along was to either win the bid or pretend it never happened.  If they did answer they would have to lie or admit some pretty unpalatable truths.  A very curious way to conduct yourselves as the elected/unelected represntatives of a membership organisation don't you think.  

Can't think of a single reason why anyone would call for their resignation.

[random1]

You know the provider plans the club have submitted show a 50m gap between the ground and the warehouse development, right?

We as fans can demand all we want, we have no clout whatsoever though so it's all just so much noise. To paraphrase Bad Santa, wish into one hand and shìt into the other, see which one fills up first."

Thats ok then is it BOTN, 50m of tarmac rather than 150m ?  

how much are we getting for the sale of the 100m or so?  and how are you so sure it is a good deal?

The plans show the biggest warehouse partly on ACV land and a small car park - wow that will really help us in the short, medium or long term

My bet is that not 1m of tarmac will be laid by KT/DB

[random1]

I wonder why some Trust supporting folk are spending so much time telling everyone to "look over the there, nothing to see here".

It's because there is still plenty to see here from a Trust Board perspective.  Anyone remember when Random turned up a few days ago offering to answer any questions anyone had.  He answered two questions then made a swift exit.  Now I know and the Trust Board know there is a whole bunch more to this story.  I've had no legal threats so far which probably tells it's own story.

Anyone remember the phrases open, honest and accountable.  Protecting the existence of the football club.

They weren't even going to tell you their partner was Cilldara let alone everything else they had been up to.

Do you reckon Cilldara just turned up and offered the deal?  What was the specific role of the unelected advisor in all of this?  Just an unelected innocent legal advisor.

In fact rather than telling everyone what the agreement was with Cilldara why don't they just pop the Heads Of Terms on their website for everyone to see.

Perhaps they could share the minutes of the secret meetings they were holding just before they put in the bid, explain who they were with and what the purpose of them were?

We know they understood exactly what they were doing and how damaging it would be to the owners and the football club.  Ask them who they were having discussions with to "save the day" from the damage THEY were planning to instigate.  As Tel pointed out the other day if they have a wealthy backer....hint secret meetings....why didn't they just bid for the land with them?  What would be the benefit of seeing the dev land go elsewhere....wonder what the price of the football club would be if it's in chaos and the owners have significant debt with no means of repayment.  Imagine how many years you could dine out on saving the day.  

Of course none of the Current Board or advisors will answer this cause the plan all along was to either win the bid or pretend it never happened.  If they did answer they would have to lie or admit some pretty unpalatable truths.  A very curious way to conduct yourselves as the elected/unelected represntatives of a membership organisation don't you think.  

Can't think of a single reason why anyone would call for their resignation.

Thats great MC, for balance why not think about all the KT stuff and post your observations - then we can really see what the Trust did what it did.

and again it was not signed, sealed and delivered, it was part of an ongoing process to at least keep the Trust / supporters with some potential say on things.

That has almost disappeared now, it will be gone completely if we all resign.

You really have the upmost faith in KT to deliver and Tuscan Tom to hold him to account?   

[BackOfTheNet]

Thats ok then is it BOTN, 50m of tarmac rather than 150m ?  

how much are we getting for the sale of the 100m or so?  and how are you so sure it is a good deal?

The plans show the biggest warehouse partly on ACV land and a small car park - wow that will really help us in the short, medium or long term

My bet is that not 1m of tarmac will be laid by KT/DB

I wasn't talking about any of that. Beds said there should be 30m left between the ground and the warehousing. I pointed out there were 50m shown in the provisional plans, so presumably that more than meets his requirements.

I posted some examples of the scale of building that could fit into a gap that size a couple of weeks ago, I think. There is more than adequate room being left for future expansion.