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Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields

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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2023, 20:04:52 pm »

Sounds sensible. Now, shall I get your coat, or will you collect it on the way out?  Grin
You choose, historically advice in my position has not proven to be entirely reliable.
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« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2023, 20:27:35 pm »

To give the Trust a tiny bit of credit when they finally realised the truth that their partner was only in it for themselves (which anyone with an iota of business savvy could have told them months ago) at least they did the decent thing and stopped flogging a dead horse.

I think this and your previous post are being very generous to those involved.  They all knew what they were agreeing to and even if some simply went with the flow they are just as responsible.  Despite claims by Keith on Twitter they did have a choice.  But they have lived in an echo chamber for so long and are driven by stopping the current owners at any cost.

They have forgotten they represent their membership and the supporters and that is who they should be guided by.  It's not like we haven't told them enough times over the years and been slaughtered for doing so.

So I have no sympathy because it should have took them 2 seconds to work out this was a bad idea with no positive outcome for the football club even if the bid was ultimately successful.

Isn't it funny how much stick I've got over the years from various people for pointing out all that has now come to pass.  Where are they now?   They have helped enable the Trust Board to continue down this path.  Are they happy with this?  Quiet aren't they.
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« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2023, 20:38:15 pm »

Hi everyone

I am happy to answer questions and offer myself up to explain the Trust position on all this.

First of all it was not a decision that was taken easily or lightly.

IMHO our hand was forced by KT and WNC.

I know many have chosen to bash the £250k box park plan, by ignoring the actual plan and picking up on just one short term aspect of it (the lorry park) and ignoring that it was produced by a company whose business is logistics and very well known in the community.

That was and still is, what the Trust want - to protect the original footprint of the ACV - ie the running track  - that would have done that and much more. But KT picked up the phone to GWS as did others and basically scared and threatened them.

Now how that does not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans I really don't know !!!

Then you have WNC who stated in a meeting with us that we had to pay £2m + for the ACV land as they were worried that CDNL would pull out and that they would be left with the land - despite a £3m offer on the table, and they showed no interest or compassion to allow NTFC supporters to keep our land.

Again how that did not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans, I give up (almost)

So Cildara offered to give us the ACV land, and we were to have discussion going forward regarding other options - remember Cildara, NBC / WNC and NTFC had been in discussion to buy the club and land for over 6 months previously

KT & The club offered no discussions at this stage - again remember KT had helped kill the ACV deal with GWS.

At the Trust we wanted to protect the football club and land - KT and the council had moved the goalposts again regards stand and land and put in this clause of if no stand you get the land but we get 5 years.

We wanted to at least put pressure on KT and Council to keep the ACV out of the hands on any and all owners and we want to make sure that KT finishes the stand in a good deal for supporters.

THAT WAS NOT AN EASY DECISION IT WAS VERY VERY HARD - The easy thing is to sit on here with no name or from the comfort of living upto 10 000 miles away and say the Trust should do this and this, they should do a deal with a Chairman who does not listen to anything he doesn't want to, a chairman who has dismissed Oxford Trust, Torquay Trust and NTFC Trust. A Chairman that has sold the club without informing fans or staff and has had at least 3 buyers walk out on his negotiations to sell the club.

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« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2023, 20:38:50 pm »

Should new Board members be elected I would like to now officially apply for the position of advisor to the board.

My first advice is going to be to make the position redundant. Then put restrictions in place to ensure that never again does an unelected individual such as myself have so much apparent influence and control regarding the decision making process of the board.

Do I get the job?

Nothing wrong with getting advice on matters where you have little knowledge or expertise to aid decision making.  As you rightly point out though the advisors should simply be that.  If they wanted more influence then they should have stood for the board themselves....wonder why that never happened.

Something was said years ago on here by the current Cilldara/Trust Legal advisor when it was suggested they stood for a board position.  They stated they could do their work far more effectively not being on the board.  Influence without accountability and recourse can be quite appealing to some people can't it.  
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« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2023, 20:39:21 pm »

To give the Trust a tiny bit of credit when they finally realised the truth that their partner was only in it for themselves (which anyone with an iota of business savvy could have told them months ago) at least they did the decent thing and stopped flogging a dead horse.

I suspect the reality is Cilldara pulled the money, and the trust put something out to try and save face saying the trust had pulled the deal, that's at least how I understood what was said by Cilldara.

It's clear the trust knew members would not get behind this partnership - hence they chose not to consult them, it's clear they knew fans and members would be outraged if it came out which is why they refused to answer questions and hid behind "confidentiality" - they knew what they were getting into, they knew exactly what they were doing.
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« Reply #65 on: January 30, 2023, 20:43:11 pm »

Talking of confidentiality Tom, what are you plans and thoughts around the ACV running track land?

Will you be fighting the council and owners not to put a warehouse on half of it?

Just so I and others know what we are voting for

Thanks
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« Reply #66 on: January 30, 2023, 20:44:03 pm »

Talking of confidentiality Tom, what are you plans and thoughts around the ACV running track land?

Will you be fighting the council and owners not to put a warehouse on half of it?

Just so I and others know what we are voting for

Thanks

Something to be discussed by the trust board, while consulting their membership I'd suggest.
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« Reply #67 on: January 30, 2023, 20:44:07 pm »

I am happy to answer questions and offer myself up to explain the Trust position on all this.

Great and good for you for fronting up.

Who approached who with the idea first and how do the Trust Board and Cilldara know each other?

What was the exact detail of the deal?

How was the Trust deal more beneficial for the club than the current one?

What was happening with the rest of the land as part of this deal?
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« Reply #68 on: January 30, 2023, 20:47:48 pm »

I suspect the reality is Cilldara pulled the money, and the trust put something out to try and save face saying the trust had pulled the deal, that's at least how I understood what was said by Cilldara.

It's clear the trust knew members would not get behind this partnership - hence they chose not to consult them, it's clear they knew fans and members would be outraged if it came out which is why they refused to answer questions and hid behind "confidentiality" - they knew what they were getting into, they knew exactly what they were doing.

Lies Tom, Lies

or should i just say you have it wrong again.

And also what difference does it make that it was Cildara?  

Yes a real shame that the people / fans couldn't come together and bid for the land but they haven't so far.

people say that had no interest in the club but tried to buy it but walked away when i believe, the price changed.

What do you know about David Bower and his money?  did you bother to question him when he took over? question that he lives 4000 miles away in Dubai?  No you didn't and no-one else did, so please stop all this Cildara are the devil stuff please.
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« Reply #69 on: January 30, 2023, 20:49:26 pm »

Lies Tom, Lies

or should i just say you have it wrong again.

And also what difference does it make that it was Cildara?  

Yes a real shame that the people / fans couldn't come together and bid for the land but they haven't so far.

people say that had no interest in the club but tried to buy it but walked away when i believe, the price changed.

What do you know about David Bower and his money?  did you bother to question him when he took over? question that he lives 4000 miles away in Dubai?  No you didn't and no-one else did, so please stop all this Cildara are the devil stuff please.


You'll note i said, I suspect. But you can as always just jump to try and discredit.

The very fact that you're here still not seeing the problem that it was Cilldara further demonstrates the problem.

You guys know what you did. It's time to put your big boy pants on, own your mistakes, and resign.
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« Reply #70 on: January 30, 2023, 20:57:31 pm »

Something to be discussed by the trust board, while consulting their membership I'd suggest.

No you are trying to take over the Trust, the members need to know now or are you suggesting a closed shop by you and your mates?

and by the way I find the way that you are trying to discredit good people and lifelong genuine Cobblers like Andy Roberts, Keith Buckby and Bob Clarke, to name a few, absolutely disgusting.

You and all of your 9 who want to take over the board, have refused to attend meetings, refused to say what you plans are, refused to attend board meetings.

The Trust is 30 years old and the dedication to it from ALL it's board members over the years is not something that should be belittled and threatened by those who wont engage or tell supporters what they stand for.

One of your leaders, Barry Collins voted for the ACV to be invoked and then whilst Secretary actively planned against the Trust, took money away from the Trust in setting up another travel club, without one word of warning or asking of help.
How can you and fans put you name and Trust in someone who acts like that?  
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Tom
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« Reply #71 on: January 30, 2023, 21:00:56 pm »

No you are trying to take over the Trust, the members need to know now or are you suggesting a closed shop by you and your mates?

and by the way I find the way that you are trying to discredit good people and lifelong genuine Cobblers like Andy Roberts, Keith Buckby and Bob Clarke, to name a few, absolutely disgusting. Read the room, they've done this all by themselves. You have collectively made decision to consciously go against the fanbase and the member base, if you feel your reputation is hurting - look in the mirror. I'd also like to point you to your very own behavior, right here on this forum towards fans such as myself, in an attempt to discredit them. Those are lifelong fans too.

You and all of your 9 who want to take over the board, have refused to attend meetings, refused to say what you plans are, refused to attend board meetings. - Our stance has been clear, your behavior is the issue, not the bid - the other stuff is the stuff that should be discussed. We've refused to attend boarding meetings because of the incapability of civil discussion by your board members.

The Trust is 30 years old and the dedication to it from ALL it's board members over the years is not something that should be belittled and threatened by those who wont engage or tell supporters what they stand for. - and in all those years, the trust board has never had such a poor reputation, and it's board has never treated fans how the current board has.

One of your leaders, Barry Collins voted for the ACV to be invoked and then whilst Secretary actively planned against the Trust, took money away from the Trust in setting up another travel club, without one word of warning or asking of help. - You know this not to be true, but even with his different view he's been perfectly welcome and had friendly conversation - something the trust board is currently not capable of, different opinions without abuse.
How can you and fans put you name and Trust in someone who acts like that?  

Here is a very simple way to look at this.

What do you think would happen if every single member of the trust was given a vote in a simple vote today, should the trust board resign yes or no?

The answer to that (which I think we all know the answer to) shows this board has failed & let down the membership - regardless of anything else, regardless of any opinions you hold.

You are supposed to represent and act on behalf of your members, not the opinions of the board.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 21:05:36 pm by Tom » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #72 on: January 30, 2023, 21:06:24 pm »

Hi everyone

I am happy to answer questions and offer myself up to explain the Trust position on all this.

First of all it was not a decision that was taken easily or lightly.

IMHO our hand was forced by KT and WNC.

I know many have chosen to bash the £250k box park plan, by ignoring the actual plan and picking up on just one short term aspect of it (the lorry park) and ignoring that it was produced by a company whose business is logistics and very well known in the community.

That was and still is, what the Trust want - to protect the original footprint of the ACV - ie the running track  - that would have done that and much more. But KT picked up the phone to GWS as did others and basically scared and threatened them.

Now how that does not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans I really don't know !!!

Then you have WNC who stated in a meeting with us that we had to pay £2m + for the ACV land as they were worried that CDNL would pull out and that they would be left with the land - despite a £3m offer on the table, and they showed no interest or compassion to allow NTFC supporters to keep our land.

Again how that did not get alarm bells ringing with NTFC fans, I give up (almost)

So Cildara offered to give us the ACV land, and we were to have discussion going forward regarding other options - remember Cildara, NBC / WNC and NTFC had been in discussion to buy the club and land for over 6 months previously

KT & The club offered no discussions at this stage - again remember KT had helped kill the ACV deal with GWS.

At the Trust we wanted to protect the football club and land - KT and the council had moved the goalposts again regards stand and land and put in this clause of if no stand you get the land but we get 5 years.

We wanted to at least put pressure on KT and Council to keep the ACV out of the hands on any and all owners and we want to make sure that KT finishes the stand in a good deal for supporters.

THAT WAS NOT AN EASY DECISION IT WAS VERY VERY HARD - The easy thing is to sit on here with no name or from the comfort of living upto 10 000 miles away and say the Trust should do this and this, they should do a deal with a Chairman who does not listen to anything he doesn't want to, a chairman who has dismissed Oxford Trust, Torquay Trust and NTFC Trust. A Chairman that has sold the club without informing fans or staff and has had at least 3 buyers walk out on his negotiations to sell the club.


Don’t drag me into this Derek. Not once have I said the box park wouldn’t work. What I did do 7 months ago was write directly to the board asking how finance was to be channeled into the club from the scheme. A perfectly reasonable set of questions to a vital aspect of the proposal dont you think that went unanswered and ignored. If you wanted support perhaps they could have been answered, which would at least demonstrated the plan had been given full consideration to all reasonable challenges? Given that the point of the project was to raise an income for the club why were they unanswered Derek? The reality is without a clear set of conditions in channeling those funds then the project was pointless. So in summary you had a member with a set of valid concerns about the project, who raised them directly with the board, who kept away from the discussion about the issues around the profitability of the scheme and rather than answer them you choose to take a side swipe in this post? How disappointing.
On a separate note had any of the decisions been taken with the full consultation and approval of the membership then imo the board wouldn’t be in this position. Given the decisions were arrived at by the collective board then they have to be accountable and take full responsibility for any outcomes. That’s possibly now going to be enforced on the board whether they like it or not. On another thread you asked what the Trust was set up for. I believe it was set up to represent the interests of and be a voice for the supporters of the club. Not the ill thought out hysterics of a group of radical despots hèll bent on enforcing their will on the club and it’s future.
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« Reply #73 on: January 30, 2023, 21:08:00 pm »


and by the way I find the way that you are trying to discredit good people and lifelong genuine Cobblers like Andy Roberts, Keith Buckby and Bob Clarke, to name a few, absolutely disgusting.
Get your facts right. Bob Clarke is not a lifelong fan, he started attending matches after he moved here, having previously lived in Leicester and Swansea.
And I stated previously that whatever you had planned for the land had better be worth the wait. Come on then, what was it? And please dont answer a question with another one.


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« Reply #74 on: January 30, 2023, 21:09:44 pm »

Tom - I have the utmost respect for you being one of the few people who has put themselves out there to actually do something about these issues. So, please take this as it's meant...

Your battle is won, and your best bet now is to stop engaging with Random. It's getting nobody anywhere and I for one would like to see him pressed to answer factual questions like the ones MCH put forward.
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« Reply #75 on: January 30, 2023, 21:09:57 pm »

Great and good for you for fronting up.

Who approached who with the idea first and how do the Trust Board and Cilldara know each other?

What was the exact detail of the deal?

How was the Trust deal more beneficial for the club than the current one?

What was happening with the rest of the land as part of this deal?

Hi MC,

It was Cildara who approached the Trust, as you know our legal adviser John Morgan is known to some local advisor to Cildara and I believe that the introduction was through this. I would like to remind people that John has been in the legal profession for over 50 years and I'm sure like some of you on here, you have worked with and being in contact with many people in your own industry, this is no different. John DID NOT advise Cildara on anything, ever and certainly not involved in any of their bids or Judicial Review.

The deal was as I said above, I can't really go into too much more detail at this time.

The Trust deal would at the very very least give us the ACV land (valued at around £3m in itself), it gave us a bargaining position with the club and council and hopefully put pressure and scrutiny on the land deal with CDNL to ensure that the stand gets finished.
My personal suspicious is that KT will NOT complete the East stand and all the hogwash of complicated land deals and clauses is a big smokescreen to make excuses and on that basis at least we would have the ACV as a minimum. So far the East stand has not been touched as hasn't anywhere around the ground in 7 years and £45m going through the hands of the club. One case in point - the fans village - when was this last mentioned?  March last year at the open forum - 6 months before it was part of the East stand plans (to get the council on side etc) then its on the West and now nothing........

The other land was with Cildara although we were looking at various options depending how things played out - again remember Cildara nearly brought the club before
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« Reply #76 on: January 30, 2023, 21:13:00 pm »

Tom - I have the utmost respect for you being one of the few people who has put themselves out there to actually do something about these issues. So, please take this as it's meant...

Your battle is won, and your best bet now is to stop engaging with Random. It's getting nobody anywhere and I for one would like to see him pressed to answer factual questions like the ones MCH put forward.

A point well made, and taken on board.

We have all remained quiet - but felt it was prudent to speak up again and let people know that we've taken some action and will take further if needed.
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« Reply #77 on: January 30, 2023, 21:14:46 pm »

A point well made, and taken on board.

We have all remained quiet - but felt it was prudent to speak up again and let people know that we've taken some action and will take further if needed.

Agreed mate. Best of luck to you
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« Reply #78 on: January 30, 2023, 21:18:06 pm »


IMHO our hand was forced by KT and WNC.
This line tells me all I need to know. Time for you and everyone else involved to go back to just being fans. Surely you must realise and accept your tenure is well and truly over
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« Reply #79 on: January 30, 2023, 21:19:14 pm »

Here is a very simple way to look at this.

What do you think would happen if every single member of the trust was given a vote in a simple vote today, should the trust board resign yes or no?

The answer to that (which I think we all know the answer to) shows this board has failed & let down the membership - regardless of anything else, regardless of any opinions you hold.

You are supposed to represent and act on behalf of your members, not the opinions of the board.

Sorry but because we took difficult decisions and went again you and some others doesn't automatically mean we were / are wrong.

The Trust is not a fan club it is there to protect NTFC from it's owner acting in their interests and not of those of the club.

Why should i vote for you?   just saying I was horrible to you isn't enough. I took a lot of abuse from you and others, you sit 5000 miles away and complain about the Trust, again genuine supporters who have given a lifetime to this club, can you really say the same?

I will remind you I was voted Supporter of the Year, Andy Roberts (Chairman) has penned at least 2 books on NTFC (the latest one KT refused to sell in the club shop !) John Morgan has had a season ticket for 40 years, what about you?

I would be very happy for you and others to be co-opted on to the board tomorrow, I want the Trust to be better, to be stronger, to have a say in the future of NTFC, I really do.

You have to put your big boys pants on and say what you will do and what you want. i am a Trust member, I want to know if you will fight for our ACV land or not, simple question Tom
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