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Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields

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Author Topic: Supporters Trust withdraws bid for ACV Land at Sixfields  (Read 7893 times)
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« Reply #160 on: February 02, 2023, 20:40:34 pm »

Cheers, Simon, that adds some interesting meat on the bones. Fair play to you for holding true to your principles and walking away when you saw where things were going, although (and this is meant without malice) it's a shame we don't still have your more measured head on the Trust board.
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« Reply #161 on: February 02, 2023, 20:47:59 pm »

On a different note, I've now read the Trust response to the resignation calls. It's a bit odd because it's aimed entirely at Tom's group as if they were the only ones calling for the board to resign, when in reality Tom's group issued their statement in response to a more general call from a number of supporters.

I've seen lots of people on social media saying they should resign over the Cildara farce and on this site alone 60 of 71 respondents currently feel the same. That's a lot more people than the 9 signatories than the response addresses, but the rest of us are effectively being swept under the carpet.
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« Reply #162 on: February 02, 2023, 21:02:10 pm »

Iím assuming that if they want to stay on, the options outside of the AGM are very limited. The current board hold all of the cards if they insist on staying, external to an AGM options are limited.

There absolutely no chance of forming a no confidence vote. Well over 50% of the membership either donít care or are simply not contactable. At the moment, the board appears (I can only assume) either ambivalent, or oblivious to the impact of their actions.

I agree with you about not wanting to discard the good work that has gone before. But this board beyond the land and stand issues, hasnít shown an appetite for any other Trust business. It is more akin to a specific working party, than it is a supporters trust
I see. Valid points, and you won't find me disputing that the constitution could do with being modernised where possible.

But there IS a democratic route available outside the AGM in terms of being able to call the EGMs/no confidence - the support base being apathetic doesn't change that.

That said, I believe there are 15 board spaces available according to model rules. If there's only 6 at the moment then that means the two longest serving will have to resign (I don't know who they are) and stand for re-election. Therefore the way things stand, the nine people who want to stand from Not My Trust could all be elected to the board unopposed even if the two who stood down from the current board are also elected unopposed.

If the membership want it, a change of direction will not be far away.
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« Reply #163 on: February 02, 2023, 22:58:25 pm »

In conversations I have had I have been unable to find a member who wishes any of the current board to continue in any capacity other than 1 who questions if there is a role in any future board for Andy Roberts. Thatís around 12 members and during conversations they have also reported that they have been unable to identify individuals outside of social media who want any of the current board to remain.
Now whilst this is obviously not conclusive evidence regarding the result of a full vote, given these experiences, the strength of feeling and the comparative responses on here I believe this is irrefutable evidence this is what the overwhelming majority of the membership want. So for me any questions around whether the current rules and procedures are fit for purpose will be exposed over the coming weeks. Because the majority of the membership either get their wish, or the entire process is flawed and any argument to the contrary futile. But as demonstrated in the various communications since the revelations I expect the current individuals holding the positions to cling to the wreckage with everything ounce of strength they have and damn the consequences. That tells me everything I need to know about the individuals involved, and what is necessary to take our Trust forward.
However, all the information and evidence is out there regarding the conduct and caliber of the individuals involved on all sides. Members are obviously entitled and should be encouraged to make their own interpretations on events to reach any conclusions regarding all this.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2023, 05:59:13 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #164 on: February 02, 2023, 23:25:14 pm »

Grange, thanks for your input and hopefully we get to see more contributions from you on these matters now many of them are out in the open.

I'd like to hear why you couldn't personally support the £3m bid.  I'd also like some insight if you could provide it as to whether there was a full understanding of the consequences for the owners and by association the football club, of the joint bid winning the land.  It's fairly obvious to anyone that should Cilldara get the land, there would definitely be no east stand completion, no debt repayment or additional investment.  It was obvious Cilldara would offer nothing from the dev land to the club and would simply build warehouses which you and others have stated are completely uninspiring.  This would have obviously also had a serious knock on effect to the day to day running of the football club and the funds the owners were willing to put in.  Were these matters considered, ignored or deemed acceptable, perhaps even beneficial to the Trusts aims?

The reason I ask these type of questions leads back to what you are saying in the rest of your post.  I get everyone from the Trust would rather move on and forget about this and like you say potentially there are bigger concerns on the horizon.  However for people to move on they need to understand and be heard.  How can anyone possibly trust the current Trust Board on anything they say in the future.  There's no contrition, no admission of mistakes they still think they have done nothing wrong.

I just don't see how anyone can come together after this with the current Trust Board all still in their roles.  How is anyone ever going to believe a word they say and how would anyone believe they want the best for the club when they made it so obvious they support the opposing bid?

Final thing.  You and others like Carlton, seem completely reluctant to ever criticise the Trust Board.  I get that and I get there is a loyalty and in the mst part you suppoirt their aims.  But we have all had to have tough conversations with our best mates sometimes when they have been out of order.  You guys have the ear of these individuals more than I ever will.  Some hard truths from good friends hit home way harder than a strangers would.  I don't for one minute believe you guys completely approve of what has gone on and you need to tell them that....in my opinion.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2023, 23:36:02 pm by MCHammer » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #165 on: February 03, 2023, 08:43:38 am »

Great post Grange, thanks for providing your insight.
There are probably 2-3 issues that I have with the situation when I think about it.

1. The hypocrisy. The Trust critisise the club publicly in statements about their lack of transparency and hiding behind confidentiality and then do exactly the same themselves. I don't buy the 'KT scuppered the deal' line. I'm sure he did, why wouldn't he?! But if the deal was as good as the Trust claim then it should have held. They critisise the owners for building warehouses and lacking imagination, whilst partnering with a company who will build warehouses, albeit 50m further away from the stand.

2. The disdain they have for their fellow fans. Emotions have often got in the way on all sides and the conversation hasn't been as polite as it should be, but we are all passionate about this club. But anyone who questions their plans or their motives are instantly called into question, called KT lovers, told we don't understand the situation, essentially called stupid (not reading or understanding the council documents for example)

3. Lack or accountability and responsibility. The Trust have essentially admitted the reason they partnered with Cilldara was to force a seat back at the table. How did we get to a position where the Trust had to do that?! I know KT isn't the most welcoming but you can still have a professional relationship with someone if you cant have a personable one. I have never seen anyone from the Trust acknowledge their mistakes, this week is a great example. Rather than explain the situation like GPC did they came out swinging blaming everyone but themselves.

As much as the Trust board believe they have acted in the best interests for the club they are now so distant from the club and then fans that it is time for a change. It happens in all walks of life, boards of businesses, governments etc, one day its time for a change, and that time is now.
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« Reply #166 on: February 03, 2023, 09:43:36 am »


As much as the Trust board believe they have acted in the best interests for the club they are now so distant from the club and then fans that it is time for a change. It happens in all walks of life, boards of businesses, governments etc, one day its time for a change, and that time is now.

I fully agree with this. The board have become entrenched in their position and things have been said and done that can't be gone back on.

The Trust bid is dead and the ACV has gone. Any leverage the Trust had is gone.

In order for the Trust to have any relevance now the only option is for them to find a way to work with the club and build a few bridges.

Unfortunately things have got personal (on both sides) and I don't think there's any coming back from that. The owners aren't going to change so if any sort of working relationship is going to be restored then the only thing left to change is the Trust board.

Rights, wrongs and good intentions are irrelevant; we are where we are and a clean sweep is needed to move forwards.

And before anyone starts on about the owners not wanting to engage, look at the correspondence between them and Tom's group on the NotMyTrust website. They are perfectly willing to engage when spoken to in a civil and productive manner (although to some that's probably just seen as proof that they are in KT's pocket Roll Eyes)
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« Reply #167 on: February 03, 2023, 10:26:24 am »

I think the only way the relationship is repaired between the Trust and the owners is that the deal goes through and the stand is completed. If they donít get the land the Trust will carry the can, regardless of their involvement in the outcome. If they do and donít finish the stand then on some level their actions (maybe not behaviours) are vindicated.
Unfortunately we could still be a few years away from finding out.
In the meantime Iím sure theyíll be plenty of infighting, posturing and power plays within the Trust that probably wonít do the fans and the club a lot of good but will no doubt generate a lot of handbags on social media.
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« Reply #168 on: February 03, 2023, 11:42:17 am »

The first step towards solving a problem, is recognising and acknowledging that there is one. Cool
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« Reply #169 on: February 03, 2023, 12:38:32 pm »

I may have misread but aren't 3 board positions up for re-election? And the board members have to step down? Apologies if I have this wrong
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« Reply #170 on: February 03, 2023, 17:14:46 pm »

I fully agree with this. The board have become entrenched in their position and things have been said and done that can't be gone back on.

The Trust bid is dead and the ACV has gone. Any leverage the Trust had is gone.

In order for the Trust to have any relevance now the only option is for them to find a way to work with the club and build a few bridges.

Unfortunately things have got personal (on both sides) and I don't think there's any coming back from that. The owners aren't going to change so if any sort of working relationship is going to be restored then the only thing left to change is the Trust board.

Rights, wrongs and good intentions are irrelevant; we are where we are and a clean sweep is needed to move forwards.

And before anyone starts on about the owners not wanting to engage, look at the correspondence between them and Tom's group on the NotMyTrust website. They are perfectly willing to engage when spoken to in a civil and productive manner (although to some that's probably just seen as proof that they are in KT's pocket Roll Eyes)
But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.

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« Reply #171 on: February 03, 2023, 18:23:39 pm »

But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.



You're absolutely right, that's not how it should be, but I think you are sliding into the realms of absolutism there. I don't think KT dislikes/refuses to engage with the board simply because they are the board, he's reached that point due to the actions and behaviour of the individuals who currently comprise the board. If the individuals were to change, I believe his attitude would change.

It is then down to the future conduct of the new board. By that I don't mean they should be a bunch of nodding dogs, bowing, scraping and agreeing with everything the club says and does, however there are ways and means of doing that that don't involve burning bridges.

Again, I think there is a degree of absolutism in the current board's comments about Tom's group that is evident in their remarks about the Trust not being a "supporter's club". They have chosen to fight the owners tooth and nail and they seem to assume any new board members will automatically be the polar opposite of that,  however there's a happy medium to be struck that occupies the middle ground.

As an aside, when I say I think KT's attitude will change when the board changes, no, I don't think his attitude will change to the point he'll welcome a Trust representative back onto the club's board with open arms, I just think he'll be willing to talk to them more. Getting someone back onto the club's board is a fight for another day when the fundamental relationship has been repaired.
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« Reply #172 on: February 03, 2023, 21:33:24 pm »

But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.



There doesnít have to be any dialogue whatsoever. The club has appointed a supporters representative as per the up and coming government guidelines. So in that respect, they are ahead of the curve.

You do know, that there is a distinct possibility that the current Trust model is hugely outdated. Resembling that (as was previously said) of a social/working mens club committee. Any fanciful notion that the Trust could save us from anything is nothing more than fantasy. When clubs fold these days, even lower league clubs, it normally involves huge sums of money. Can you imagine for one second, a scenario where KT and DB, after being stung by the Trust boards bedfellows. Suddenly up sticks, write off the debt, and hand it over to the Trust as an interim custodian 😂😂 No, of course you canít.

I completely appreciate GPC's comments, they are very welcome. But what must have been in his mind throughout, was the potential fall out from this. If you canít find the Trust boards actions inconceivable on any level, then youíre crazy. There is just no circumstance where a supporters Trust of a certain club, can get into bed with a totally unassociated property developer, with no affiliation whatsoever to the club or the support. And effectively back them against the owners. Who in the vast majority of supporters eyes, certainly should be the preferred bid. Not necessarily because heís always been good to his word. But at least he has run the club, kept it in the league, and actually knows the fýcking names of those who work there. Staff who just happen to love the bloke as well. Putting aside the fact that they did this without so much as a nod from the very people they represent. Tossing aside their constitution and mission statement in the process.

I keep hearing from those that back the Trust board about all of these big money guys, who are waiting in the wings to run NTFC. So where are they? I mean surely if you are the Trust board, you pop over to one of your plethora of millionaires, and you make him/her the offer of a lifetime. Just back us on the ACV. Bid for the land as well, then sit back with us and watch the whole house of cards come down. Then as a genuine millionaire Cobblers supporter, you can ride into town and pick up the pieces. With us by your side. Not only do you get the land, you also get the NTFC. Something you have always wanted. The supports happy, because you love the Cobblers. The supporters Trust is happy having found a genuine Cobblers loving saviour. And the saviour is happy with their new club, and lots of lovely enabling money. Win win win win winÖ.

But no. Because no one like that exists. So what do they blÚody do. They jump into bed with the very group that could fýck NTFC for good. Simply unforgivable.
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« Reply #173 on: February 03, 2023, 22:17:11 pm »

But any dialogue is actualy between the owners and the Trust, not the Trust board.
Replace those who currently represent the Trust with others who KT likes, and he will enter a dialogue is what you're saying, but until when?
Until someone gets elected to the Trust board that he doesnt like and the present status quo is resumes.
That's not how the Trust should be forced to operate.

If the Board of the Trust made decisions with the full active endorsement of the membership that is a far more dangerous strategy than upsetting 6 people acting in isolation against the apparent wishes of the majority of the membership. Itís about controlling what you can and forgetting about what you canít. The current strategy has failed spectacularly in case you havenít noticed. I would suggest the best option is to try a different approach, rather than repeating the same mistakes and presumably getting the same results.
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« Reply #174 on: February 03, 2023, 22:24:56 pm »

I hope you guys spend tomorrow afternoon at Sixfields rather on a keyboard belting out sweet nothings about the ACV land/Trust/Council/NTFC.
Its not you that guys can change anything before the upcoming Trust AGM?

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« Reply #175 on: February 03, 2023, 23:42:09 pm »

You're absolutely right, that's not how it should be, but I think you are sliding into the realms of absolutism there. I don't think KT dislikes/refuses to engage with the board simply because they are the board, he's reached that point due to the actions and behaviour of the individuals who currently comprise the board. If the individuals were to change, I believe his attitude would change.

It is then down to the future conduct of the new board. By that I don't mean they should be a bunch of nodding dogs, bowing, scraping and agreeing with everything the club says and does, however there are ways and means of doing that that don't involve burning bridges.

Again, I think there is a degree of absolutism in the current board's comments about Tom's group that is evident in their remarks about the Trust not being a "supporter's club". They have chosen to fight the owners tooth and nail and they seem to assume any new board members will automatically be the polar opposite of that,  however there's a happy medium to be struck that occupies the middle ground.

As an aside, when I say I think KT's attitude will change when the board changes, no, I don't think his attitude will change to the point he'll welcome a Trust representative back onto the club's board with open arms, I just think he'll be willing to talk to them more. Getting someone back onto the club's board is a fight for another day when the fundamental relationship has been repaired.
I don't think KT is at all put out by the way the Trust board approach things, he just doesn't like anyone who doesn't walk his walk. They could be as polite and inoffensive as they like and it wouldn't make a bit of difference. He wants yes men. If they are polite yes men then so much the better.
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« Reply #176 on: February 03, 2023, 23:44:13 pm »

There doesnít have to be any dialogue whatsoever. The club has appointed a supporters representative as per the up and coming government guidelines. So in that respect, they are ahead of the curve.

You do know, that there is a distinct possibility that the current Trust model is hugely outdated. Resembling that (as was previously said) of a social/working mens club committee. Any fanciful notion that the Trust could save us from anything is nothing more than fantasy. When clubs fold these days, even lower league clubs, it normally involves huge sums of money. Can you imagine for one second, a scenario where KT and DB, after being stung by the Trust boards bedfellows. Suddenly up sticks, write off the debt, and hand it over to the Trust as an interim custodian 😂😂 No, of course you canít.

I completely appreciate GPC's comments, they are very welcome. But what must have been in his mind throughout, was the potential fall out from this. If you canít find the Trust boards actions inconceivable on any level, then youíre crazy. There is just no circumstance where a supporters Trust of a certain club, can get into bed with a totally unassociated property developer, with no affiliation whatsoever to the club or the support. And effectively back them against the owners. Who in the vast majority of supporters eyes, certainly should be the preferred bid. Not necessarily because heís always been good to his word. But at least he has run the club, kept it in the league, and actually knows the fýcking names of those who work there. Staff who just happen to love the bloke as well. Putting aside the fact that they did this without so much as a nod from the very people they represent. Tossing aside their constitution and mission statement in the process.

I keep hearing from those that back the Trust board about all of these big money guys, who are waiting in the wings to run NTFC. So where are they? I mean surely if you are the Trust board, you pop over to one of your plethora of millionaires, and you make him/her the offer of a lifetime. Just back us on the ACV. Bid for the land as well, then sit back with us and watch the whole house of cards come down. Then as a genuine millionaire Cobblers supporter, you can ride into town and pick up the pieces. With us by your side. Not only do you get the land, you also get the NTFC. Something you have always wanted. The supports happy, because you love the Cobblers. The supporters Trust is happy having found a genuine Cobblers loving saviour. And the saviour is happy with their new club, and lots of lovely enabling money. Win win win win winÖ.

But no. Because no one like that exists. So what do they blÚody do. They jump into bed with the very group that could fýck NTFC for good. Simply unforgivable.
Dont mean to be dismissive but I'm not sure what relevance any of this has to my point?
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« Reply #177 on: February 03, 2023, 23:54:46 pm »

If the Board of the Trust made decisions with the full active endorsement of the membership that is a far more dangerous strategy than upsetting 6 people acting in isolation against the apparent wishes of the majority of the membership. Itís about controlling what you can and forgetting about what you canít. The current strategy has failed spectacularly in case you havenít noticed. I would suggest the best option is to try a different approach, rather than repeating the same mistakes and presumably getting the same results.
As I've already said, I don't think this has anything to do with either side 'upsetting ' each other.
Regards accountability within the Trust, you have made that point many times. I don't know who dropped the remark 'people like you want the Trust to be a referendum party', back to Peter Frost, but it's probably quite appropriate and succinct for your good self?
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« Reply #178 on: February 04, 2023, 00:23:31 am »

As I've already said, I don't think this has anything to do with either side 'upsetting ' each other.
Regards accountability within the Trust, you have made that point many times. I don't know who dropped the remark 'people like you want the Trust to be a referendum party', back to Peter Frost, but it's probably quite appropriate and succinct for your good self?
And so the misdirection continues. Presumably when someone takes a seat on the Board that KT doesnít like (the criteria you set) they will have to do something to upset him for him not to like them. Itís not complicated, and you accuse others of being pedantic. Put any label on it you like, the Board of the Trust have made the commitment to be open, inclusive and accountable. Those are the rules and they are non negotiable. Unless you are looking to add the caveat ďin the Boards opinionĒ to that as well, which of course negates any responsibility to the commitment and gives the collective Board license to do as they see fit without consultation or accountability. Hardly in the spirit of a Trust in my opinion and I suspect that of the majority membership either. So itís not back to Peter, and inclusive of my good self, it happens to be what the majority of the membership want. If Iím wrong put it to the test?
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« Reply #179 on: February 04, 2023, 07:05:06 am »

I no longer post or attend matches due to ill health but felt compelled to jot down a few musings.

It is clear the current trust are not fit for purpose.
They have acted undemocratically in pushing through decisions without allowing all paid members to vote and have actively and knowingly acted against the best interests of the football club they represent.
There is no need to add anything else.

I was the first to point out many moons ago that there seemed to be a chance of the trust acting in tandom with cilldara which has now come to pass.
Whoever thought it was a smart idea to involve outside interest in the sixfields site was very sadly misguided and has potentially placed the clubs entire future in serious doubt.

The fact that there is now a judicial review doesnít surprise me one bit and again I pointed out long ago I believed things would go down this path.

To me the bidding process seemed very odd to say the least regards timings of bids and certain bids being allowed where others were not.
This should have raised alarm bells at the time.
However from memory a chap from the council posted at great length on here to tell the fanbase there was no cause for concern despite the bidding timelines so to speak.
Itís worth noting that the individual hasnít posted on here in many moons to ease supporters fears and we are now at the mercy of a judicial review to basically see if the council managed to operate the bidding process in the correct manner.

It will be interesting to see the outcome and in turn whether this council was more competent than their predecessors who gave away ten million pounds or so of public money without the necessary safeguards.

The cilldara legal team have stated they are very confident of victory in this matterÖ.

IF cilldara are successful it remains to be seen if the bidding process is reopened which like it or not would seem to be the fairest option.

It seems clear to me that cilldara would win any future bidding war for the land on the previous bidding history.
It would then remain to be seen whether the current owners would continue at the club without the redevelopment land.

I personally think they would leave and administration/liquidation wound follow if this was the case.

To turn the musings full circle, all of this would have been avoided if the trust had not got involved.
The land deal would have gone through unopposed, there would have been no bidding process to scrutinise and things would be further down the road than they are now.

The only thing I do agree with concerning the trust is my belief that there should have been a cast iron guarantee to finish the redevelopment (and to a better standard and higher capacity than the ideas laid out a decade ago).

The fact the trust have put the clubs future in doubt in order to achieve Ďno stand , no land Ď is a major step in the wrong direction and leaves all fans with a very real option of blank Saturday afternoons in the future.

There was imo no need to end up in this predicament and it was all of the football clubs supporters trusts own making.
Perhaps if they had canvassed all members democratically and asked opinions on the best way to progress then other avenues may have been explored.

Alas a rushed/botched undemocratic view was formed and the rest is history..,.

Anyone thinking that a supporters trust that has acted against the best interests of the club it deems to represent and put its actual future in immediate peril is worthy of future support are at best misguided in my opinion.

I hope things turn out ok for the future so that the town still has a club and fans present and future have a team to support, but make no mistake it will be in no way down to the Ďhelpí from its very own supporters trust !!!

UTC.
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