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First season back table

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Author Topic: First season back table  (Read 11103 times)
Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #180 on: February 12, 2024, 08:48:19 am »

Thanks Deepcut. Shoot the messenger indeed.

I started this thread in August after just three games when nobody knew where it would take us. So to suggest I am somehow manipulating this table in order to, well what, what am I supposed to be trying to do? That allegation is pure stuff of nonsense.

Statistics, if collected correctly from the information available, are FACTS.
The use and presentation of those statistics is a subjective interpretation by the author, therefore is open to and invites debate.

“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” - Mark Twain.
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« Reply #181 on: February 12, 2024, 09:01:27 am »

Grin Grin
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #182 on: February 12, 2024, 10:26:13 am »


That's all well and good Melbourne IF I was presenting statistics but I'm not, just giving you the facts, it is up to you the reader to conclude from them what you will.

My conclusion is that after 30 games Brady isn't doing quite as well as the other four managers in the table but he is doing a lot better than those that were sacked before getting to this point. Are there mitigating circumstances, arguably of course, there are always different circumstances. For example Carr had the heart of his team ripped out, just losing Hill & Morley, how many goals did that cost us?

Anyway does this table show that Brady a bad manager? Don't be so daft. Is he doing a good job? Of course he is.

Let's hope we beat Orient tomorrow. If we do then Brady will go above Wilson and level with Bowen. What you'd accuse me of then god only knows.
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« Reply #183 on: February 12, 2024, 10:41:02 am »

At the moment, of the original nine managers listed, he's fifth having 'seen off' four of them.
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« Reply #184 on: February 12, 2024, 12:23:14 pm »

That's all well and good Melbourne IF I was presenting statistics but I'm not, just giving you the facts, it is up to you the reader to conclude from them what you will.

My conclusion is that after 30 games Brady isn't doing quite as well as the other four managers in the table but he is doing a lot better than those that were sacked before getting to this point. Are there mitigating circumstances, arguably of course, there are always different circumstances. For example Carr had the heart of his team ripped out, just losing Hill & Morley, how many goals did that cost us?

Anyway does this table show that Brady a bad manager? Don't be so daft. Is he doing a good job? Of course he is.

Let's hope we beat Orient tomorrow. If we do then Brady will go above Wilson and level with Bowen. What you'd accuse me of then god only knows.
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« Reply #185 on: February 12, 2024, 23:55:03 pm »

Pure subjection. As I've said so many times before I only show the actual facts of the situation, so why you blame me for the resulting table I'll never fathom. Perhaps you think I should only produce the tables that would show the club in a good light? Happy clapper?

As I said, I've "embellished" though if indeed past eras playing budgets were higher and injury lists shorter then are those not facts too? Again, I feel the need to challenge what these charts and tables provide in the way of insights. Any base numbers that are "facts" can be extrapolated or hypothesised over to try and either positively or negatively paint a picture. And in your case by showing Brady as bottom and providing your own embellishment in the form of "sinking" it feels like you're choosing to paint a darker picture.

And if you still want to wriggle and claim that you're just showing factual numbers and the reader can decide, then I decide this, there's no useful insight or intelligence to be gained here. Presenting veiled (thinly or otherwise) negativity about manager and / or top scorer in charts or tables doesn't give them any more credibility
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #186 on: February 13, 2024, 07:12:54 am »

As I said, I've "embellished" though if indeed past eras playing budgets were higher and injury lists shorter then are those not facts too? Again, I feel the need to challenge what these charts and tables provide in the way of insights. Any base numbers that are "facts" can be extrapolated or hypothesised over to try and either positively or negatively paint a picture. And in your case by showing Brady as bottom and providing your own embellishment in the form of "sinking" it feels like you're choosing to paint a darker picture.

And if you still want to wriggle and claim that you're just showing factual numbers and the reader can decide, then I decide this, there's no useful insight or intelligence to be gained here. Presenting veiled (thinly or otherwise) negativity about manager and / or top scorer in charts or tables doesn't give them any more credibility

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

Brady is bottom because that's where he is in this chart. I have no control over the results. Like I said previously, if we were to win tonight he would go above Wilson and level with Bowen. How could that possibly be described as me being negative? You're floundering. This chart was started after just 3 games and nobody, not even the great WasRambo knew where it would lead.
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« Reply #187 on: February 13, 2024, 07:40:53 am »

I’m not sure where the argument is?
He’s 4 points off the ‘title’ all without a Benji or McGoldrick, not forgetting those who have fallen by the wayside. All he has is Hoskins who is injured and only scores pointless goals.
Outstanding stuff all things considered. In terms of keeping the league going on a rolling basis he may well win it via elimination.
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« Reply #188 on: February 13, 2024, 08:56:12 am »

I’m not sure where the argument is?
He’s 4 points off the ‘title’ all without a Benji or McGoldrick, not forgetting those who have fallen by the wayside. All he has is Hoskins who is injured and only scores pointless goals.
Outstanding stuff all things considered. In terms of keeping the league going on a rolling basis he may well win it via elimination.

and there lies the rub. There isn't one.

By the way the only manager you'd lose would be Wilson, as he didn't make it through a second full season. The other three did so Brady would join an exclusive club. Nobody has ever made it to 4 seasons in League 1 so I guess that's would be the holy grail.
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« Reply #189 on: February 13, 2024, 09:01:45 am »

and there lies the rub. There isn't one.

By the way the only manger you'd lose would be Wilson, as he didn't make it through a second full season. The other three did so Brady would join an exclusive club. Nobody has ever made it to 4 seasons in League 1 so I guess that's would be the holy grail.

Good point, if he emulates Bowen...well, he won't.  Grin
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« Reply #190 on: February 13, 2024, 09:28:45 am »

Good point, if he emulates Bowen...well, he won't.  Grin

If he attracts good luck; have a gut feeling he maybe capable of emulating Bowen. We have done it before so it becomes our yardstick.
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« Reply #191 on: February 13, 2024, 10:04:25 am »

If he attracts good luck; have a gut feeling he maybe capable of emulating Bowen. We have done it before so it becomes our yardstick.


I admire the spirit Evers. I have no idea what the landscape was in the 60's of reaching the top flight compared to finding the Prem today. I know there was the famous quote comparing us to England winning the World Cup. I guess if non-league Luton can do it anything is possible.
It is difficult to think outside of the history we know and current standing as a club.
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« Reply #192 on: February 13, 2024, 20:48:41 pm »

No comment.

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« Reply #193 on: February 13, 2024, 22:25:47 pm »


No comment either..... They're on your "graph thread"
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« Reply #194 on: February 13, 2024, 22:34:26 pm »

No comment either..... They're on your "graph thread"

No they are not, this is Points, the graph is position. This may surprise you but there's a difference.  Roll Eyes

For somebody who claims to want fine detail, you're not very perceptive.
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« Reply #195 on: February 13, 2024, 22:43:21 pm »

No they are not, this is Points, the graph is position. This may surprise you but there's a difference.  Roll Eyes

For somebody who claims to want fine detail, you're not very perceptive.

Are the two not correlated then?
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« Reply #196 on: February 13, 2024, 22:53:46 pm »

Are the two not correlated then?

No. Of course not. One season a team will be relegated with a set amount of points, the next they could be safe.
The Cobblers were relegated with 33pts from the first division in 1965/6. They would have been safe the previous and following year with that points tally. I was told that at the time that was the highest points tally ever to be relegated from the top flight but I haven't checked if that was true.
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« Reply #197 on: February 13, 2024, 23:01:16 pm »

No. Of course not. One season a team will be relegated with a set amount of points, the next they could be safe.
The Cobblers were relegated with 33pts from the first division in 1965/6. They would have been safe the previous and following year with that points tally. I was told that at the time that was the highest points tally ever to be relegated from the top flight but I haven't checked if that was true.

Note:  No it's not true, Leeds were relegated with 34 points in 1959/60.
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« Reply #198 on: February 14, 2024, 07:54:25 am »

So points gained has no correlation to success (or failure)

Ok professor...
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« Reply #199 on: February 14, 2024, 11:38:14 am »

So points gained has no correlation to success (or failure)

Ok professor...

Correlation? To a high degree but absolute, no.

For example in our division.

2016/7: Port Vale with 49pts = Relegated.
2017/8: Oldham with 50 pts = Relegated.
2018/9: Plymouth with 50pts = Relegated.

However skipping the Covid year.

2020/1: Wigan with 48pts = Safe.
2021/2: Fleetwood with 40pts = Safe.
2022/3: Cambridge with 46 pts = Safe.

I'm surprised you hadn't understood this.
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