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First season back table

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Author Topic: First season back table  (Read 14477 times)
Bingers
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« Reply #280 on: March 25, 2024, 18:15:37 pm »

They found an egg when they were digging the foundations for Sixfields, it hatched and Sammy the imp was born, heís been here ever fuÁking since.

Perhaps there will be some more eggs found when the redevelopment work gets done. Oops, wrong thread.
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #281 on: March 25, 2024, 18:21:26 pm »

Not at all, like I said it depends whether we are talking about their whole managerial reign or just their first season back. How well Carr did was purely based on the amazing work he had done prior to winning the league and the players he had previously bought in. Arguably post title win recruiting and that third tier campaign were a disappointment.

Again, doesn't really help your argument. Carr's record does indeed include his disappointing final two seasons where we finished 20th and then followed that with relegation. Nevertheless his overall record is STILL better than Brady's, who has had two good seasons in the bottom tier and a successful season by all accounts this time round. Surprising that.
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Winslow Lee
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« Reply #282 on: March 25, 2024, 20:39:52 pm »

Again, doesn't really help your argument. Carr's record does indeed include his disappointing final two seasons where we finished 20th and then followed that with relegation. Nevertheless his overall record is STILL better than Brady's, who has had two good seasons in the bottom tier and a successful season by all accounts this time round. Surprising that.

Again Iím not comparing Carr and Brady as cobblers managers in totality, we are just talking about that first full season in the third tier (clues in the title of the thread!), so their overall record is irrelevant. I was just comparing the two squads that finished their respective promotions from the fourth tier and thus the playing resources available to each going into that Ďfirst season backí. In isolation Carr went into the season with far better players (through previous great recruitment) and so expectation should be higher.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #283 on: March 25, 2024, 20:51:36 pm »

Given the importance the topic is given, what comparative budgets did the others have against the average in the respective seasons? I accept it might be a challenge to establish that figure but I would suggest that has a significant influence on any comparisons, as does the amount of game time lost to the squad by injury as a comparative. Whilst itís an interesting snap shot, it doesnít really prove or disprove too much in isolation.
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« Reply #284 on: March 25, 2024, 21:12:06 pm »

It's not meant to, ALL these managers have suceeded just by keeping us in the thief tier. .maybe they all are/were exceptional. Of course if Brady keeps us up for two more seasons he may be the best if the lot, apart from Bowen of course.
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« Reply #285 on: March 25, 2024, 22:04:56 pm »

It's not meant to, ALL these managers have suceeded just by keeping us in the thief tier. .maybe they all are/were exceptional. Of course if Brady keeps us up for two more seasons he may be the best if the lot, apart from Bowen of course.
Still be interesting to see the full picture though. I wonder if anyone previously had got us promoted with anything like the number of games lost to injury by the first team squad. Itís worth pointing out that Brady achieved all this in spite of committing a fair chunk of his budget on a marquee signing that has barely kicked a ball. Not necessarily anyoneís fault given his injury record was ok prior to signing, but for me thatís a fairly big consideration in any assessment.
It still surprises me that owners seem to base managerial decisions based on results alone. Maybe some donít?
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« Reply #286 on: March 26, 2024, 09:52:14 am »

Still be interesting to see the full picture though. I wonder if anyone previously had got us promoted with anything like the number of games lost to injury by the first team squad. Itís worth pointing out that Brady achieved all this in spite of committing a fair chunk of his budget on a marquee signing that has barely kicked a ball. Not necessarily anyoneís fault given his injury record was ok prior to signing, but for me thatís a fairly big consideration in any assessment.
It still surprises me that owners seem to base managerial decisions based on results alone. Maybe some donít?

Melly,

If you are referring to Danny Hylton as the "marquee signing", then , as far as I can see his injury record before signing was pretty dreadful. Using Soccerbase as my source, here is his league record for Luton in the five seasons before we signed him.

2017-2018 Appearances 37 (2), Goals 21
2018-2019 Appearances  18(7), Goals 8
2019-2020 Appearances  2(9), Goals 0
2020-2021 Appearances  6(10), Goals 0
2021-2022 Appearances  5 (12), Goals 4

I don't think I need to say any more.
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« Reply #287 on: March 26, 2024, 10:13:51 am »

Melly,

If you are referring to Danny Hylton as the "marquee signing", then , as far as I can see his injury record before signing was pretty dreadful. Using Soccerbase as my source, here is his league record for Luton in the five seasons before we signed him.

2017-2018 Appearances 37 (2), Goals 21
2018-2019 Appearances  18(7), Goals 8
2019-2020 Appearances  2(9), Goals 0
2020-2021 Appearances  6(10), Goals 0
2021-2022 Appearances  5 (12), Goals 4

I don't think I need to say any more.


I'd imagine that if any thread where Hylton was signed was brought up, it would be pretty embarrassing for most posters commenting.
Without doubt the most disastrous signing in living memory for us in terms of outlay vs return, possibly ever.
The player equivalent of Gary Johnson.
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« Reply #288 on: March 26, 2024, 11:13:10 am »

Melly,

If you are referring to Danny Hylton as the "marquee signing", then , as far as I can see his injury record before signing was pretty dreadful. Using Soccerbase as my source, here is his league record for Luton in the five seasons before we signed him.

2017-2018 Appearances 37 (2), Goals 21
2018-2019 Appearances  18(7), Goals 8
2019-2020 Appearances  2(9), Goals 0
2020-2021 Appearances  6(10), Goals 0
2021-2022 Appearances  5 (12), Goals 4

I don't think I need to say any more.

Really, that's a surprise, I was told something entirely different. Just had a quick check on Wikipedia (so it must be true) and his total appearances are listed as 22 the season before we signed him?
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« Reply #289 on: March 26, 2024, 11:14:32 am »

I'd imagine that if any thread where Hylton was signed was brought up, it would be pretty embarrassing for most posters commenting.
Without doubt the most disastrous signing in living memory for us in terms of outlay vs return, possibly ever.
The player equivalent of Gary Johnson.
That's true, I nearly had an orgasm when we signed him, and that was before the new syrup.
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« Reply #290 on: March 26, 2024, 11:59:27 am »

Really, that's a surprise, I was told something entirely different. Just had a quick check on Wikipedia (so it must be true) and his total appearances are listed as 22 the season before we signed him?

Wiki  doesn't break down between starts and sub appearances, so can be quite misleading. It can look like a player has played a lot of games, when it's all 97th minute off the bench.
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« Reply #291 on: March 26, 2024, 12:42:52 pm »

I live in a village in Central Bedfordshire rammed to the gunnels with Luton Town supporters (there's also at least one MK Dons Season Ticket Holder).

They thought it was hilarious when we signed Danny on very good money (and 2 years) knowing of his injury issues. There's even an elderly guy who used to work in the village Co-op who looks very jaded these days whose eye's light up when I see him - "How's Danny getting on?", knowing he isn't getting on at all.
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« Reply #292 on: March 26, 2024, 13:20:12 pm »

Its really hard to compare different era's as back in the 60's/70's/80's...even the 90's...it was much easier to come up with innovative tactics than it is these days. Everything now is so sterile and 'in line with budget' pretty much. You used to get many clubs going through the divisions or at least playing higher than their 'natural level', whatever that was at the time.

I took a random year - 1975 division1 table (I had no idea it was that year when Derby were champions so I wasn't trying to make us look good ha ha) - http://stats.football.co.uk/league_tables/1974_1975/first_division/index.shtml

Then compare that with the current top flight. Apart from Luton Town, every club is up there because they are either massive/pretty big or because they have been very well funded.

Sky and the 'premier league' changed everything. The gap financially now is so wide, and coupled with parachute payments it makes it almost impossible for a small club to really compete. IF Luton hadn't of gone up last season, they *might* have struggled financially big time given they were losing over 10 million a year without transfer fees being brought into the equation. They got lucky, winning on penalties. Fair play to them mind.

A glance across the 4 divisions shows that only Luton (prem) and Rotherham (championship) are 'at our kind of level' outside the bottom 2 divisions and its fair to say I amm basing that on support more than anything else. But (certainly in Lutons case) they are both bigger than us, but not by a margin that couldn't be closed if we were as successful as them. 

Across all 4 divisions I doubt theres any other club above us with a budget that is lower than ours. We are over achieving at the minute. Not by a massive amount, but we are certainly over achieving.

Only Carr and Atkins (in my time) could claim something similar. So Brady is without a doubt up there with them. When it comes to injuries, Atkins perhaps had the worst misfortune than any other one of our managers has had (even Brady!) the season we got relegated. Something like 13/14 ops if I recall? Which was really really unusual back in those times.

Atkins could also boast a signing almost as bad as Danny and financially on a par (certainly for the season he was here) - Paul Wilkinson! But given Danny has been here 2 years and hasn't scored a single goal...not even in pre-season when he even missed a couple of penalties...that takes some doing. It really couldn't of gone any worse. The sooner he fcuks orf the better. I wouldn't mind so much if he wasn't commentating for another team and celebrating a goal at the very point when we were losing 2-0 at Wycombe. Which in mind at least, shows he really doesn't give a sh1t!




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« Reply #293 on: March 26, 2024, 13:38:52 pm »


Atkins could also boast a signing almost as bad as Danny and financially on a par (certainly for the season he was here) - Paul Wilkinson!


I'm sure we'll get a similar treatment on a podcast in years to come.

From 32:50, I'm sure it's been on here before. Doesn't speaking highly about the club or fans....but he probably has a point on the fans.  Tongue What a d*ck.

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« Reply #294 on: March 26, 2024, 14:30:03 pm »

I'm sure we'll get a similar treatment on a podcast in years to come.

From 32:50, I'm sure it's been on here before. Doesn't speaking highly about the club or fans....but he probably has a point on the fans.  Tongue What a d*ck.


I think its fair to say his last season most of us fell out of love with football! Assume the manager he refers to is Martin Wilkinson.
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« Reply #295 on: March 26, 2024, 18:19:45 pm »

On Hylton.

A strange signing when heralded as a marquee one! It appears that in the 2022/23 season he apparently played 26 games for Luton with a return of nil goals!  Clearly that season a lot of appearances came off the bench and may have been far from match fit. In hindsight we where all duped/conned in celebrating the services on an injury prone player, so was his fitness/injury record fully investigated prior to signing? In hindsight it appears there might or should be an investigation into the circumstances of the Hylton signing. Perhaps more controversially is the current chronic injury situation NTFC are facing; however as many other Clubs are facing the same issues a more conservative approach maybe required. Whatever the circumstances JP is doing a fine job and hope he continues in the same vein.
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« Reply #296 on: March 26, 2024, 20:25:52 pm »

I read on the chron come the end of the season Brady will investigate the injury record again as it can't continue what will be different this year
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« Reply #297 on: March 27, 2024, 07:05:16 am »

I read on the chron come the end of the season Brady will investigate the injury record again as it can't continue what will be different this year
Didnít he say the same thing last yearÖ..
In fairness nothing will change if we are forced to acquire players with awful injury records because we miss out on first choice options due to financial constraints and a constant inability to attract investment into the club.
Whilst I take on board other clubs also have injury problems there canít be many clubs who sign so many previously injured players.
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« Reply #298 on: March 27, 2024, 08:17:49 am »

Didnít he say the same thing last yearÖ..
In fairness nothing will change if we are forced to acquire players with awful injury records because we miss out on first choice options due to financial constraints and a constant inability to attract investment into the club.
Whilst I take on board other clubs also have injury problems there canít be many clubs who sign so many previously injured players.
I think its a balance. There will be some potentially great players who we can get 'cheap' because of their injury record so its worth the gamble. It's a bit like taking a striker from non league, sometimes the gamble pays off and sometimes it doesn't.
Just feels at the moment we have too many in the squad who have an injury history and we should set a quota of sorts.

Without hindsight, Hylton is exactly the sort of player to take a gamble on. Yes his injury record wasn't great but has been there and done it so you get his dressing room influence as well. Just a shame he is still in Luton's dressing room and not ours.
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« Reply #299 on: March 27, 2024, 10:25:59 am »

That's true, I nearly had an orgasm when we signed him, and that was before the new syrup.
Thanks for that mental image 😵‍💫
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