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Author Topic: VAR  (Read 1308 times)
DavCobb
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VAR
« on: September 30, 2023, 20:42:37 pm »

VARÖgreat innit? If youíre a Spurs fan.
They only have one job to do.
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itsme
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« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2023, 21:55:22 pm »

I'm all for the correct decisions being made but if VAR isn't doing that what is the point of it
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Buster
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« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2023, 22:45:51 pm »

Did the ball cross the line; Yes or No?
Beyond that question there really is no need for technology. If the decision following VAR intervention remains arguable then what is the point of it. Might as well just leave it to the refÖ
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DavCobb
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« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2023, 08:43:57 am »

Did the ball cross the line; Yes or No?
Beyond that question there really is no need for technology. If the decision following VAR intervention remains arguable then what is the point of it. Might as well just leave it to the refÖ

That one wasnít questionable. The VAR gave offside and thought it had been given as a goal. It prevents them to bring it back (with the odd exception) once itís kicked off again. No doubt another rule change. Clearly not the first mistake but must be one of the worst.
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DavCobb
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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2023, 08:48:47 am »

I also thought the red was very harsh, although more subjective. Didnít help that the first thing the ref saw was the twisted ankle still. In real time it didnít look bad and on the slow mo you could see it got the ball and it was so quick and IMO not a dangerous action, just unfortunate. Iíd say no chance of being overturned though. 
I just imagine if we were on the end of these, without factoring in they are scousers!   Tongue
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Winslow Lee
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« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2023, 18:14:27 pm »

I also thought the red was very harsh, although more subjective. Didnít help that the first thing the ref saw was the twisted ankle still. In real time it didnít look bad and on the slow mo you could see it got the ball and it was so quick and IMO not a dangerous action, just unfortunate. Iíd say no chance of being overturned though. 
I just imagine if we were on the end of these, without factoring in they are scousers!   Tongue

Definite red for me and absolutely zero chance of it being overturned. Any tackle where you go in with you studs and initial contact is above the ankle is pretty much always a red card now. Making contact with the ball is almost irrelevant, if you slide off the ball onto an opponents leg it just shows youíre not in control.

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Larry
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2023, 18:31:38 pm »

I think it was Platini that said that VAR doesn't prevent the error, it just shifts it.
It looks like he is being proved right.
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DavCobb
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2023, 19:22:45 pm »

I think it was Platini that said that VAR doesn't prevent the error, it just shifts it.
It looks like he is being proved right.

I donít think he meant that in the context of this one. I donít think anyone expected them to get the decision right and then not tell the officials/not realise what decision had been given on the game theyíre officiating on.  Grin
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DavCobb
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2023, 10:38:04 am »

Great audio on this.
Iíll be surprised if the rule isnít changed by the weekend. If it happens once itíll probably happen again.
The clear sensible approach is to get in the refs ear and call it back if a game quickly kicks off against what was intended. The bigger change would be to get the VAR on the loudspeaker, which they are talking about but would seriously slow things down. Plus a clear ONSIDE/OFFSIDE on the screen.

I think they need to change the approach to refs replays too. What they showed him on the red card was to get him to show a red card, not to look at the incident again objectively. Show it in real time and then slow mo. He may have still sent him off but they do seem scared to go against things once it goes to VAR.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2023, 17:11:48 pm »

VARÖgreat innit? If youíre a Spurs fan.
They only have one job to do.
Perfect result, can the same VAR team cover all of Liverpools games.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2023, 17:22:48 pm »

Perfect result, can the same VAR team cover all of Liverpools games.

Absolutely..  Canít fýcking stand the wŗnkers.
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Larry
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« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2023, 15:49:23 pm »

I donít think he meant that in the context of this one. I donít think anyone expected them to get the decision right and then not tell the officials/not realise what decision had been given on the game theyíre officiating on.  Grin

That's got to be a clear shift of the error. Just let the ref get it wrong. That sounds bad but it's made the game the beauty that it is. Overcomplicating it will ruin it.
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Winslow Lee
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2023, 18:18:09 pm »

Well all the Liverpool moaning and whining worked a treat as the ref was too scared to send off Konate for one of the most obvious second yellows youíll ever see.
While in the Chelsea v Arsenal game VAR intervened to award Chelsea a dubious penalty but then doesnít for Arsenal when the goalkeeper takes out the striker in a far more blatant offence.
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Larry
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« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2023, 19:46:27 pm »

Well all the Liverpool moaning and whining worked a treat as the ref was too scared to send off Konate for one of the most obvious second yellows youíll ever see.
While in the Chelsea v Arsenal game VAR intervened to award Chelsea a dubious penalty but then doesnít for Arsenal when the goalkeeper takes out the striker in a far more blatant offence.

Exactly, it's the blame shifting we were warned of by those in the game.
We are stuck with it because it benefits the tv companies who supply the video feeds. Sod the supporters in the grounds left waiting with nothing while tv lords it over them
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DavCobb
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« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2023, 12:20:08 pm »

Just watched the Man Utd highlights. Two soft pens and an awful red card decision IMO. No one picked up on the event in normal play and then the classic freeze frame to dismiss him.

One thing VAR does ensure is that any teams playing without it are playing an entirely different game these days.
They are going to have to seriously change how it is used or just scrap it.

If they are going to the trouble of using it, watching multiple angles and replays, they may as well take any decision making away from the ref on the field once anything is reviewed and the ref purely administers it.
If speed and tech improves I am sure it will be used for throws and corners etc.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #15 on: November 09, 2023, 12:43:17 pm »

Just watched the Man Utd highlights. Two soft pens and an awful red card decision IMO. No one picked up on the event in normal play and then the classic freeze frame to dismiss him.



I'm not sticking up for VAR. I'd get rid of it asap. But I'm sure the ref looked at the Rashford decision in real time. Slow motion, and freeze frame. IMO it was a red.
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DavCobb
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« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2023, 10:18:54 am »

One that was up there with the rogue offside last night.

What an awful penalty decision. When one of the best refs in the world gives that after viewing the monitor, it is time to remove that farce of a process and just tell the ref what to give from the studio.
Every time it seems a forgone conclusion when they are asked to look at something. It was a clear example where he should have stuck to his guns.
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #17 on: November 29, 2023, 10:47:55 am »

One way round all this is when a decision reverts to VAR, it should then be done with AI, not another Referee. Should be quite easy to load all the rules and regulations into a computer and rule OUT human flaws. Would end the arguments because every occasion would see the same verdict so no inconsistencies.

I have a bit of experience with this. When I started running a golf society over 20 years ago, we used to do what most societies did back then, cut a couple of shots off the winner, give a shot back to the guy finishing last, that sort of thing. There was always arguments, some quite valid such as taking 2 shots of a single figure handicapper is a far bigger penalty than taking 2 shots off a high handicapper. Anyway, we came up with formulas, adjusted overtime to treat everybody fairly and now we have no arguments at all when handicap adjustments are made as no person makes those adjustments, it's as case of "The computer says".
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It's all about balance.
DavCobb
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« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2023, 10:53:13 am »

One way round all this is when a decision reverts to VAR, it should then be done with AI, not another Referee. Should be quite easy to load all the rules and regulations into a computer and rule OUT human flaws. Would end the arguments because every occasion would see the same verdict so no inconsistencies.

I have a bit of experience with this. When I started running a golf society over 20 years ago, we used to do what most societies did back then, cut a couple of shots off the winner, give a shot back to the guy finishing last, that sort of thing. There was always arguments, some quite valid such as taking 2 shots of a single figure handicapper is a far bigger penalty than taking 2 shots off a high handicapper. Anyway, we came up with formulas, adjusted overtime to treat everybody fairly and now we have no arguments at all when handicap adjustments are made as no person makes those adjustments, it's as case of "The computer says".

Iím sure AI is the future, of everything. We probably wonít have to actually play and can just download a simulation.
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TPFKA Marvo
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« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2023, 11:40:16 am »

Iím sure AI is the future, of everything. We probably wonít have to actually play and can just download a simulation.


It's just about eliminating human error (opinion).

Another great advance would be if they took away from individual Referees how much time to be added on. Should be done with an electronic clock, stopped every time the ball is not in play, would cut down time wasting almost completely. Probably need to be only 30 minutes a half though.
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It's all about balance.
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