The Hotel End
November 12, 2024, 05:53:20 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Downloads Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register Chat  

VAR

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: VAR  (Read 2907 times)
DavCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2479


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2023, 12:22:00 pm »

It's just about eliminating human error (opinion).

Another great advance would be if they took away from individual Referees how much time to be added on. Should be done with an electronic clock, stopped every time the ball is not in play, would cut down time wasting almost completely. Probably need to be only 30 minutes a half though.

I heard a debate about the sin bin proposal. The main concern was teams wasting time/slowing play down to eat up the 10 minute penalty. I thought that the only way around this was to have a dedicated sin bin clock that was controlled by a 5th official. A 10 min penalty could end up being 20 minutes plus!
I am a bit surprised that we haven't seen the rugby style timing yet, although you are right they'd have to shorten the half, maybe to 40 mins like in rugby. While we are at it we can change the shape of the ball.  Tongue
Report Spam   Logged
TPFKA Marvo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2447



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2023, 12:31:37 pm »

I heard a debate about the sin bin proposal. The main concern was teams wasting time/slowing play down to eat up the 10 minute penalty. I thought that the only way around this was to have a dedicated sin bin clock that was controlled by a 5th official. A 10 min penalty could end up being 20 minutes plus!
I am a bit surprised that we haven't seen the rugby style timing yet, although you are right they'd have to shorten the half, maybe to 40 mins like in rugby. While we are at it we can change the shape of the ball.  Tongue

I believe the last time I saw a test on the amount of time a ball stays in play each half it was 29 minutes. That doesn't surprise me one jot.
Report Spam   Logged

It's all about balance.
Monkey
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1729


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2023, 13:55:08 pm »

It's just about eliminating human error (opinion).

Another great advance would be if they took away from individual Referees how much time to be added on. Should be done with an electronic clock, stopped every time the ball is not in play, would cut down time wasting almost completely. Probably need to be only 30 minutes a half though.

There is definietly a strong argument for 60min stop clocks - would eliminate a lot of issues around time wasting and injury time etc.

I was recently reading some stats on average time the ball was in play for prem games.
The average I think was around 55-60mins, but it varied drastically from game to game. i.e. Some Stoke games (the Tony Pulis effect) were as low as 40 mins whereas the likes of Man City had games that were nearer to 70 mins. A 30 min difference of in-play time is significant for both the integrity of the game and the fans enjoyment.
Report Spam   Logged
DavCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2479


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2024, 09:13:27 am »

Latest howler...

First Liverpool pen, questionable but probably enough not to overturn.
The second one??? Zero contact, a clear camera angle to show the keeper withdrew his hands and never touched him. It couldn't have been clearer than no penalty and a yellow for diving.
Report Spam   Logged
BackOfTheNet
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6255


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2024, 09:23:09 am »

I really dislike VAR. For me, I'd like to see technology used for goal line decisions which are a binary did-it-cross-the-line-or-not question.

For everything else where it's more subjective it disrupts the flow of the game and the loss of spontaneity detracts more from the enjoyment of the game than an incorrect decision ever does. It's not even as if it's always right anyway!

Is there a sadder sight in sport than a goalscorer standing around, waiting to see if they can celebrate or not?
Report Spam   Logged

The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15246



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2024, 10:02:39 am »

Latest howler...

First Liverpool pen, questionable but probably enough not to overturn.
The second one??? Zero contact, a clear camera angle to show the keeper withdrew his hands and never touched him. It couldn't have been clearer than no penalty and a yellow for diving.


His elbow caught his heel.
I probably wouldn't have given it but there was no reason to overturn the onfield decision.
It's not a VAR howler, it's the subjective decision by the onfield official that you would have had without/pre VAR.  Wink
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15246



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2024, 10:06:14 am »

I really dislike VAR. For me, I'd like to see technology used for goal line decisions which are a binary did-it-cross-the-line-or-not question.

For everything else where it's more subjective it disrupts the flow of the game and the loss of spontaneity detracts more from the enjoyment of the game than an incorrect decision ever does. It's not even as if it's always right anyway!

Is there a sadder sight in sport than a goalscorer standing around, waiting to see if they can celebrate or not?

I agree, but I would add offside to the binary and non subjective "is he on or off" decisions...
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
TPFKA Marvo
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2447



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2024, 10:36:38 am »

What made no sense about the Jota incident is why he didn't stay on his feet and put the ball in the empty net?

I think that may have swayed the officials.

In regard offside, I'd either get rid of them all together or introduce a line across the pitch level with the penalty box. Offside was brought in to stop "goal hanging" I don't see any point whatsoever in having somebody given offside a yard inside the opponents half. It would also stretch the game, leaving more space in which to play.
Report Spam   Logged

It's all about balance.
DavCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2479


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2024, 11:14:42 am »

His elbow caught his heel.
I probably wouldn't have given it but there was no reason to overturn the onfield decision.
It's not a VAR howler, it's the subjective decision by the onfield official that you would have had without/pre VAR.  Wink

I think we’ll agree to disagree on that one DC.
I’d class that as a clear and obvious error without any subjectivity.
In terms of contact, if anything his foot brushes the elbow, which in itself would never be a foul.
Would have been interesting if the official would have had the bottle to overturn it given the opportunity to watch it back. That’s the issue, there is so much inconsistency.

As to Marvo’s point, absolutely no idea why he threw himself to the ground with an open net.
I’m with Chris Sutton on this one, 3 match ban for obvious diving like that. It would soon eliminate it.

As for the handball law, they seriously need to sort that one out.
Report Spam   Logged
EB Claret
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1396


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2024, 11:29:22 am »

OK we all think we know better than the match officials, but if VAR can't prove otherwise within 30 seconds we should stick with the original decision.

Years ago the rule was changed so that an attacker was onside if he was level with the last defender. If VAR must draw lines across the pitch make them the same width as each players body, if the lines overlap they are level, so onside. I think that is more in keeping with the spirit of the law.
Report Spam   Logged
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15246



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2024, 12:14:25 pm »

I think we’ll agree to disagree on that one DC.
I’d class that as a clear and obvious error without any subjectivity.
In terms of contact, if anything his foot brushes the elbow, which in itself would never be a foul.
Would have been interesting if the official would have had the bottle to overturn it given the opportunity to watch it back. That’s the issue, there is so much inconsistency.

As to Marvo’s point, absolutely no idea why he threw himself to the ground with an open net.
I’m with Chris Sutton on this one, 3 match ban for obvious diving like that. It would soon eliminate it.

As for the handball law, they seriously need to sort that one out.

There was contact, which could have caused the player to fall over, the decision about whether it did is subjective and therefore not 'a clear and obvious error'.
That is your own subjective perspective.
If he hadn't awarded the penalty kick, there would have been some, especially of the scouse persuasion, who would have queried it.
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
DavCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2479


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #31 on: January 02, 2024, 12:41:49 pm »

There was contact, which could have caused the player to fall over, the decision about whether it did is subjective and therefore not 'a clear and obvious error'.
That is your own subjective perspective.
If he hadn't awarded the penalty kick, there would have been some, especially of the scouse persuasion, who would have queried it.

Nope, not for me.
I haven't seen anything conclusive to show actual contact. I have seen however that IF there was the slightest contact, it didn't lead to the fall which suggested he had just been shot by a sniper. That is VERY clear on any of the replays.
I also haven't read one 'expert' who thought it was a penalty in any context, rules based or otherwise. Just a shockingly poor decision and awful sportsmanship by Jota.

I totally get the ones where the rules 'block' the 'correct' decision making, or there is ambiguity like the blocked view of the ball being in/out of play in the West Ham/Arsenal game.

It's exactly poor decisions like this why players will continue with simulation.
For me VAR continues to add very little, other than mistakes and delayed celebrations. We're better off without it....in which case the penalty would have been given in some instances and he would have been booked for diving in others.
Report Spam   Logged
Deepcut Cobbler
Administrator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 15246



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #32 on: January 02, 2024, 13:12:10 pm »

Nope, not for me.
I haven't seen anything conclusive to show actual contact. I have seen however that IF there was the slightest contact, it didn't lead to the fall which suggested he had just been shot by a sniper. That is VERY clear on any of the replays.
I also haven't read one 'expert' who thought it was a penalty in any context, rules based or otherwise. Just a shockingly poor decision and awful sportsmanship by Jota.

I totally get the ones where the rules 'block' the 'correct' decision making, or there is ambiguity like the blocked view of the ball being in/out of play in the West Ham/Arsenal game.

It's exactly poor decisions like this why players will continue with simulation.
For me VAR continues to add very little, other than mistakes and delayed celebrations. We're better off without it....in which case the penalty would have been given in some instances and he would have been booked for diving in others.

If you haven't seen or acknowledge the elbow catching his heel on the TV close ups that were shown during/after the game, you are arguing in a conversation without the benefit of all of the facts, which has an impact on your subjective perspective. Huh
Report Spam   Logged

“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon

The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
DavCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2479


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #33 on: January 02, 2024, 14:21:16 pm »

If you haven't seen or acknowledge the elbow catching his heel on the TV close ups that were shown during/after the game, you are arguing in a conversation without the benefit of all of the facts, which has an impact on your subjective perspective. Huh

If it is accepted that there was the faintest of contacts and that therefore means if the player throws himself to the ground theatrically, leading to the ref thinking it was a foul it's OK? Then on review there was the faintest of contacts, ignoring the fact that the ref was conned by the dive but because of any contact the ref isn't allowed to review his/her decision....then the system isn't right. The footage CLEARLY shows that any contact did not cause the fall.
I'd far rather have a retrospective ban for the dive.

Anyway, enough on this one.

Refs are human, they make mistakes...I'd expect those to be mitigated if we insist on reviewing some of the wacky decisions from multiple angles. I can see why the ref gave it but then VAR should've helped him make the correct decision. We seem to have implemented rules that actually stop the 'correct' decisions being made. Bizarre. I'm glad we don't have it in the lower leagues....I'd rather accept the sh*t refs!

As for balls blasted at point blank range resulting in pens, that's definitely not the refs fault and a simple rule change required.

I am sure AI will take over these decisions sooner than we think!

Report Spam   Logged
Carton Lid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1885


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2024, 20:39:52 pm »

Just seen Dominic Calvert-Lewin sent off for a tackle that wasn't even a foul, absolute joke. I think VAR is good it's just the dickheads operating it
Report Spam   Logged
Winslow Lee
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3466


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #35 on: January 04, 2024, 20:46:38 pm »

Just seen Dominic Calvert-Lewin sent off for a tackle that wasn't even a foul, absolute joke. I think VAR is good it's just the dickheads operating it
That was always going to be a red card. You can’t make that sliding challenge with studs showing and make contact with an opponent above the ankle. Surely everybody knows this now and it blows my mind that players still go in like that.
Report Spam   Logged
DavCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2479


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #36 on: January 04, 2024, 21:58:01 pm »

Once the ref goes to review it’s a done deal. I’m not sure why they bother.
Report Spam   Logged
Carton Lid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1885


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2024, 15:12:02 pm »

That was always going to be a red card. You can’t make that sliding challenge with studs showing and make contact with an opponent above the ankle. Surely everybody knows this now and it blows my mind that players still go in like that.
So does that make the referee, who was 5 yards away and gave nothing, incompetent ?

I was, and still am quite harsh on some refs, but I thought he was spot on, not even a foul let alone a card.
Report Spam   Logged
Tabasco Kid
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6694


View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2024, 15:33:44 pm »

So does that make the referee, who was 5 yards away and gave nothing, incompetent ?

I was, and still am quite harsh on some refs, but I thought he was spot on, not even a foul let alone a card.
Yep. Works for me, just thinking about Phil Crossley at Mansfield. He had a great game whilst 5 yards away from the action.
Report Spam   Logged

Were in the pipe 5 by 5.
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2281



View Profile
Badges: (View All)
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2024, 16:28:04 pm »

Calvert-Lewin's red card (discussed above) has been rescinded.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site!
Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy