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VAR

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DavCobb
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« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2024, 08:55:29 am »

Calvert-Lewin's red card (discussed above) has been rescinded.

Pretty embarrassing for the ref and VAR officials, especially as the ref as he saw it live and on the screen.
Has this been a common occurrence or the first time VAR has been overturned?
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therealpattcobb
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« Reply #41 on: February 26, 2024, 08:22:47 am »

Of course it was one of the talking points of the Carabao.

I'm still not sure why Van Dijk's first "goal" was ruled out.

And for an unbiased view that of Sterling's either.

For the VVD goal they didn't really make a decision they passed it back to the referee and monitor because they couldn't decide.

Neither decision would have produced that much controversy if both goals had stood.

And that is completely at odds with VAR raison d'etre isn't it?
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DavCobb
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« Reply #42 on: February 26, 2024, 08:30:31 am »

Two good goals for me. No idea (other than they copped out) on why they are sending the ref to the monitor for the Van Dijk one. It is exactly why they have people making those decisions.
Missed opportunity for Chelsea to get some silverware.
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« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2024, 12:29:50 pm »

Two good goals for me. No idea (other than they copped out) on why they are sending the ref to the monitor for the Van Dijk one. It is exactly why they have people making those decisions.
Missed opportunity for Chelsea to get some silverware.

The difference is that there was a player who was in an offside position, which was factual.
The decision on whether the player had an impact on the play is a subjective opinion and should only be made by the match official. The match official determined that the player in an offside position had blocked and prevented the defender the opportunity to defend.
Therefore offside was the correct decision in the subjective opinion of the match official.

Blocking happens in nearly every game, normally without sanction, unfortunately this was and was within the Law and it's guidelines.
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« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2024, 13:53:03 pm »

They should just scrap offside, more trouble than it's worth. The game would be more spread and you'd get more goals.
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DavCobb
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« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2024, 14:23:30 pm »

The difference is that there was a player who was in an offside position, which was factual.
The decision on whether the player had an impact on the play is a subjective opinion and should only be made by the match official. The match official determined that the player in an offside position had blocked and prevented the defender the opportunity to defend.
Therefore offside was the correct decision in the subjective opinion of the match official.

Blocking happens in nearly every game, normally without sanction, unfortunately this was and was within the Law and it's guidelines.

I always admire your defence of the refs union but until they start making (or not making) certain decisions, then the little trot over to the monitor totally diminishes credibility. i.e. "The match official determined that the player in an offside position had blocked and prevented the defender the opportunity to defend." Did he, or was he ever going to decide anything else once pitch side?

I'd love to see the stats on "Go and have a look at that decision" and a ref sticking to the decision vs changing it, regardless of what the evidence shows. Must be 95%+ almost to the point that they could eliminate that element and just give it from upstairs. The red card decisions probably the most blatant thing coming once they get sent for a look in super slow mo.

In terms of the thread and VAR, I genuinely can't see how it has improved the game. Huge delays, crazy mm decisions on offsides and plenty of mistakes to choose from. They should have stopped at goal line technology, although I am sure they implement subjective blue cards eventually and make the handball rule even more confusing.
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« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2024, 14:41:52 pm »

I always admire your defence of the refs union but until they start making (or not making) certain decisions, then the little trot over to the monitor totally diminishes credibility. i.e. "The match official determined that the player in an offside position had blocked and prevented the defender the opportunity to defend." Did he, or was he ever going to decide anything else once pitch side?

I'd love to see the stats on "Go and have a look at that decision" and a ref sticking to the decision vs changing it, regardless of what the evidence shows. Must be 95%+ almost to the point that they could eliminate that element and just give it from upstairs. The red card decisions probably the most blatant thing coming once they get sent for a look in super slow mo.

In terms of the thread and VAR, I genuinely can't see how it has improved the game. Huge delays, crazy mm decisions on offsides and plenty of mistakes to choose from. They should have stopped at goal line technology, although I am sure they implement subjective blue cards eventually and make the handball rule even more confusing.

It may appear that I'm defending the officials, I can assure you that I'm not, I'm just explaining the process and procedures that we have witnessed.
I'm just as frustrated as the rest regarding the deployment and use of VAR, we don't have a problem in the leagues below the Premier League because everyone 'accepts' the Referee's decisions taking into account that they are human and only use the resources available to them.
Yes, officials get things wrong but so do players and managers, it's a human trait. In my opinion VAR is spoiling the game for the spectator, I'm so glad that we aren't subject to it.
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« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2024, 06:51:09 am »

It may appear that I'm defending the officials, I can assure you that I'm not, I'm just explaining the process and procedures that we have witnessed.
I'm just as frustrated as the rest regarding the deployment and use of VAR, we don't have a problem in the leagues below the Premier League because everyone 'accepts' the Referee's decisions taking into account that they are human and only use the resources available to them.
Yes, officials get things wrong but so do players and managers, it's a human trait. In my opinion VAR is spoiling the game for the spectator, I'm so glad that we aren't subject to it.
Definitely agree with all you've said here. VAR football and "normal" football are poles apart aren't they?
We will soon have a Rugby League and Rugby Union style split where "Elite" Football has different rules to "pure" Football
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« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2024, 07:09:25 am »

Definitely agree with all you've said here. VAR football and "normal" football are poles apart aren't they?
We will soon have a Rugby League and Rugby Union style split where "Elite" Football has different rules to "pure" Football

Well you're never going to get VAR at grass roots level so there was always going to be divergence.
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« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2024, 07:24:27 am »

Well you're never going to get VAR at grass roots level so there was always going to be divergence.
Be interesting to see VAR get involved in some of the decisions club linesmen used to make on the Racecourse.
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« Reply #50 on: February 27, 2024, 09:51:48 am »

I think the problem is that VAR has not been the panacea for reffing errors that everyone thought it was going to be. The is and always will be a certain amount of subjectivity to some decisions.
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« Reply #51 on: February 27, 2024, 11:46:46 am »

I think the problem is that VAR has not been the panacea for reffing errors that everyone thought it was going to be. The is and always will be a certain amount of subjectivity to some decisions.

Fast forward and I am sure AI will make the game we see today unrecognisable, not necessarily for the better.
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« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2024, 21:44:03 pm »

TV companies including Sky, BBC, BT,  etc praise VAR without bothering to mention they are the companies that get paid to provide the video to make the decisions.
It also completely misses the point. The offside rule was created to prevent goalhanging, not to decide if a strikers toe was a millimetre beyond the arse of a defender. Let the linesman's decision take precedence, at least he had the decency to turn up.
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« Reply #53 on: March 04, 2024, 08:58:20 am »

TV companies including Sky, BBC, BT,  etc praise VAR without bothering to mention they are the companies that get paid to provide the video to make the decisions.
It also completely misses the point. The offside rule was created to prevent goalhanging, not to decide if a strikers toe was a millimetre beyond the arse of a defender. Let the linesman's decision take precedence, at least he had the decency to turn up.

Who is it that craves these millimetre accurate decisions?
Let a game that is played by mostly less than perfect human beings who make numerous mistakes per game be reffed by less than perfect human beings who in actual fact make far fewer mistakes per game.
One thing is for sure VAR will drive down the overall standard of refereeing. why would a referee need to completely focus on incidents when he can just call on VAR?
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