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DavCobb
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« Reply #80 on: July 10, 2024, 20:56:22 pm »

 Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #81 on: July 11, 2024, 11:12:13 am »

If that penalty had been given against the Cobblers we would all be up in arms and JB would definitely received a yellow card if not a red one. I don't see how the defender can challenge for the ball without his studs showing and although it may have been given as a foul elsewhere on the pitch the same could be said in other instances. Defenders in the box regularly are holding attackers with both arms wrapped around them and get away with it but elsewhere on the pitch they are penalised. Referees should instruct teams that they will give penalties for holding in the box and enforce it and it would soon eradicate it.

Last night the referee did not give the penalty, the linesman did not flag for for the penalty, the commentator and his summarisers said no penalty, the adjudicator they went to said no penalty and I understand Linaker and Neville on the other side said it was not a penalty. I think the Dutch have every right to feel aggrieved.
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« Reply #82 on: July 11, 2024, 11:23:11 am »

If that penalty had been given against the Cobblers we would all be up in arms and JB would definitely received a yellow card if not a red one. I don't see how the defender can challenge for the ball without his studs showing and although it may have been given as a foul elsewhere on the pitch the same could be said in other instances. Defenders in the box regularly are holding attackers with both arms wrapped around them and get away with it but elsewhere on the pitch they are penalised. Referees should instruct teams that they will give penalties for holding in the box and enforce it and it would soon eradicate it.

Last night the referee did not give the penalty, the linesman did not flag for for the penalty, the commentator and his summarisers said no penalty, the adjudicator they went to said no penalty and I understand Linaker and Neville on the other side said it was not a penalty. I think the Dutch have every right to feel aggrieved.
But if you watch the perpetrator immediately after the foul his body language tells a different story. He thought he'd committed a foul and was in trouble.
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HanleyplayedFender.
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« Reply #83 on: July 11, 2024, 11:41:48 am »

If that penalty had been given against the Cobblers we would all be up in arms and JB would definitely received a yellow card if not a red one. I don't see how the defender can challenge for the ball without his studs showing and although it may have been given as a foul elsewhere on the pitch the same could be said in other instances. Defenders in the box regularly are holding attackers with both arms wrapped around them and get away with it but elsewhere on the pitch they are penalised. Referees should instruct teams that they will give penalties for holding in the box and enforce it and it would soon eradicate it.

Last night the referee did not give the penalty, the linesman did not flag for for the penalty, the commentator and his summarisers said no penalty, the adjudicator they went to said no penalty and I understand Linaker and Neville on the other side said it was not a penalty. I think the Dutch have every right to feel aggrieved.

"although it may have been given as a foul elsewhere on the pitch the same could be said in other instances"
That's the problem, people believe that it must be "more of a foul" for a penalty, when the Laws don't differentiate between the two, a foul is a foul wherever and whenever (first or last minute) it is committed.
I always enforce the Laws appropriately on the field of play, irrespective of where and when required.
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« Reply #84 on: July 11, 2024, 16:11:01 pm »

"although it may have been given as a foul elsewhere on the pitch the same could be said in other instances"
That's the problem, people believe that it must be "more of a foul" for a penalty, when the Laws don't differentiate between the two, a foul is a foul wherever and whenever (first or last minute) it is committed.
I always enforce the Laws appropriately on the field of play, irrespective of where and when required.

I’d say most refs must also believe that it must be “more of a foul”
How many innocuous free kicks are given during almost any game that would never be given in the penalty area? As for shirt pulling?!
That’s people’s perception as it’s their lived experience every game, regardless of the actual rules.
I guess there are many rules like that one though. Not sure if anything is still in place for keepers holding the ball but you never see an offence there, the same for the amount of foul throws never picked up. That stops after the kids game.

As for Kane’s last night….the vast, vast majority of ‘experts’ suggested it shouldn’t have been a pen and I tend to agree, or else defenders may as well forget putting a challenge in. I’m glad it was though!!
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« Reply #85 on: July 11, 2024, 16:34:05 pm »

I’d say most refs must also believe that it must be “more of a foul”
How many innocuous free kicks are given during almost any game that would never be given in the penalty area? As for shirt pulling?!
That’s people’s perception as it’s their lived experience every game, regardless of the actual rules.
I guess there are many rules like that one though. Not sure if anything is still in place for keepers holding the ball but you never see an offence there, the same for the amount of foul throws never picked up. That stops after the kids game.

As for Kane’s last night….the vast, vast majority of ‘experts’ suggested it shouldn’t have been a pen and I tend to agree, or else defenders may as well forget putting a challenge in. I’m glad it was though!!

Goalkeepers keeping hold of the ball is very rarely punished, unless they are blatantly taking the piss. A quick word with the skipper to warn them that the next time will be a caution.
Regarding foul throws, it frustrates me how many times in our own and Premier League games they aren't picked up, I'm surprised when on the odd occasion they are!
There have been quite a few in the Euro's as well.
I always pick up any foul throws early and accompany it with a "that's schoolboy stuff guys" which normally enforces and solves the problem. You'd be surprised at how many I've had to remind them of how to legally take a throw in because they didn't know what they were doing wrong!!
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« Reply #86 on: July 11, 2024, 16:59:41 pm »

Goalkeepers keeping hold of the ball is very rarely punished, unless they are blatantly taking the piss. A quick word with the skipper to warn them that the next time will be a caution.
Regarding foul throws, it frustrates me how many times in our own and Premier League games they aren't picked up, I'm surprised when on the odd occasion they are!
There have been quite a few in the Euro's as well.
I always pick up any foul throws early and accompany it with a "that's schoolboy stuff guys" which normally enforces and solves the problem. You'd be surprised at how many I've had to remind them of how to legally take a throw in because they didn't know what they were doing wrong!!

I'm curious, when did the law change to allowing the throw-in taker to stand on the line rather than stand behind it or has it always been on the line?
If the law has changed, why do you think that is?
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« Reply #87 on: July 11, 2024, 17:33:53 pm »

I'm curious, when did the law change to allowing the throw-in taker to stand on the line rather than stand behind it or has it always been on the line?
If the law has changed, why do you think that is?

It hasn't changed.
Law 15 Procedure:
At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:

stand facing the field of play

have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline

throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play

All opponents must stand at least 2 m (2 yds) from the point on the touchline where the throw-in is to be taken.

The ball is in play when it enters the field of play. If the ball touches the ground before entering, the throw-in is retaken by the same team from the same position. If the throw-in is not taken correctly, it is retaken by the opposing team.

If a player, while correctly taking a throw-in, deliberately throws the ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or a reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue.

The thrower must not touch the ball again until it has touched another player.
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« Reply #88 on: July 11, 2024, 18:00:27 pm »

It hasn't changed.
Law 15 Procedure:
At the moment of delivering the ball, the thrower must:

stand facing the field of play

have part of each foot on the touchline or on the ground outside the touchline

throw the ball with both hands from behind and over the head from the point where it left the field of play

All opponents must stand at least 2 m (2 yds) from the point on the touchline where the throw-in is to be taken.

The ball is in play when it enters the field of play. If the ball touches the ground before entering, the throw-in is retaken by the same team from the same position. If the throw-in is not taken correctly, it is retaken by the opposing team.

If a player, while correctly taking a throw-in, deliberately throws the ball at an opponent in order to play the ball again but not in a careless or a reckless manner or using excessive force, the referee allows play to continue.

The thrower must not touch the ball again until it has touched another player.
So having part of your feet over the line has always been allowed. Blimey, must be losing it, could have sworn that wasn't the case 40 years ago.
Seems strange to me that all of the ball has to cross the line for it to go out of play yet all of the feet can be in play, on or over the line, at the point of taking a throw-in.
Is that a correct interpretation?
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« Reply #89 on: July 11, 2024, 19:01:50 pm »

So having part of your feet over the line has always been allowed. Blimey, must be losing it, could have sworn that wasn't the case 40 years ago.
Seems strange to me that all of the ball has to cross the line for it to go out of play yet all of the feet can be in play, on or over the line, at the point of taking a throw-in.
Is that a correct interpretation?


Yes, as long as the heel isn't raised during the act of the throw.
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« Reply #90 on: July 12, 2024, 07:57:07 am »

Yes, as long as the heel isn't raised during the act of the throw.
Thanks DC.
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« Reply #91 on: July 12, 2024, 11:45:08 am »

It was a clear penalty. Anywhere else on the pitch and the crowd would be screaming at the ref and lino for a free kick.
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« Reply #92 on: July 12, 2024, 12:02:54 pm »

But the referees apply different rules for incidents inside and outside the penalty area, they give free kicks for holding but how often do you see a penalty given for all of the grappling that goes on in the penalty area?  Listening to other peoples views and looking at other posts I would say 90% of people think it wasn't a penalty.
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« Reply #93 on: July 12, 2024, 12:36:04 pm »


Listening to other peoples views and looking at other posts I would say 90% of people think it wasn't a penalty.


You know when Deepy doesn't come on to defend a decision or make a rational argument that it is deemed a 'dodgy decision' in the reffing community.
The female 'expert' was on the telly saying how it wasn't a pen seconds before he went trotting over to the screen. The only thing that is certain is when they go to view the monitor you know what's coming next, I was celebrating the moment he set off!!

In this instance I don't think any of us mind.  Grin
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« Reply #94 on: July 12, 2024, 13:13:35 pm »

You know when Deepy doesn't come on to defend a decision or make a rational argument that it is deemed a 'dodgy decision' in the reffing community.
The female 'expert' was on the telly saying how it wasn't a pen seconds before he went trotting over to the screen. The only thing that is certain is when they go to view the monitor you know what's coming next, I was celebrating the moment he set off!!

In this instance I don't think any of us mind.  Grin

It was a subjective call by the on field official, he could have awarded it either way.
The fact that he didn't was his decision and because it was 'subjective', as far as I'm concerned it wasn't a clear and obvious error either way, therefore the VAR should not have intervened.
Once VAR got involved, especially from the different angles and slow motion, rather than the one in real time from his Mark 1 eyeball, it was only going to go one way.
Apart from Kane writhing around in agony, something that he's probably picked up at Bayern, I can't remember anyone else appearing to be appealing for it?
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« Reply #95 on: July 12, 2024, 16:14:51 pm »

It was a subjective call by the on field official, he could have awarded it either way.
The fact that he didn't was his decision and because it was 'subjective', as far as I'm concerned it wasn't a clear and obvious error either way, therefore the VAR should not have intervened.
Once VAR got involved, especially from the different angles and slow motion, rather than the one in real time from his Mark 1 eyeball, it was only going to go one way.
Apart from Kane writhing around in agony, something that he's probably picked up at Bayern, I can't remember anyone else appearing to be appealing for it?

At least 4 England players appealed for the penalty immediately.
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« Reply #96 on: July 12, 2024, 16:57:45 pm »

At least 4 England players appealed for the penalty immediately.

I stand corrected, I didn't see the game, only brief highlights.  Wink
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« Reply #97 on: July 12, 2024, 20:06:58 pm »

I didn't see the game,

🫨

Well it's not like we don't keep on getting to semi finals of major competitions and we were bound to get one more game.
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