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Average crowds relative to population

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Saint Cobbler
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« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2024, 22:44:36 pm »

Historically the population of the town that supported the team when we flirted with the big time was pretty much local and most of todays supporters were taken to their first games by their dads to the cobblers added to which there was pretty much fķck all else to do on a Saturday afternoon. However the modern population is a vast number of incomers who come from darn sarf or brummigem. The children of which continue to support the teams of their fathers. I have friends who would never think of going to a cobblers game(apart from my Birmingham supporting friends who will have no choice next season), they have been raised on a diet of Arsenal, Spurs, West Ham and for the poor unfortunates Chelsea. Added to this the plethora of games available on Sky etc. is it any wonder why the crowds are so low? A bigger ground is not the solution. Do we sell out the home seats every game? Do we fķck. It is not just about the product on the pitch it is about a feeling of belonging, something that was lost in the 70s and 80s as the "town" expanded.
I truly believe that there is a future for the club and room to grow, but it must be managed in such a way that it is sustainable. Yes we have seen the rapture of play off wins and the despondency of failure and the crowds it brings, but this is fleeting. A serious marketing effort is called for to bring the local youngsters to the ground, not just for main games, but all games. The women's team should be playing all their games at Sixfields and freebies thrown at any organisation that can promote this. Reserves games free to enter. Game day tours of the ground followed by nosh and bevvies for paying guests and sponsors. Yes lets extend the capacity, but make sure we can use it to cover the costs.
Agree with this. Good post. Plus, I think there is a feeling amongst our potential supporter base that we're never going to get the investment that we 'should' get for such a large catchment area.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2024, 14:50:00 pm »

The way a recent discussion was going I was anticipating Beds to pop up with something about catchment areas which got me wondering...

Taking The Championship and Leagues 1 & 2, but eliminating clubs located in cities with more than one team, I took the average crowds for the season and calculated them as a percentage of the city or towns population.

Championship average was 12.7%, League 1 was  7.1% and slightly higher thanks to the Wrexham effect for League 2 at 7.2%.

Bottom of the pile come Cheltenham, MK, Harrogate, Newport and Colchester at all under 4%, but at absolute rock bottom with a population of 229,815 and an average crowd of 6,842, the only club at marginally under 3% is Northampton Town!

We have the poorest crowds relative to the towns population in the whole of the football league. (FACT Grin)
Thomas claims that NTFC doesn't need a bigger ground because its not once achieved a 5 figure gate in all the time at Sixfields this despite playing the likes of Manchester United etc..
He also says having a bigger ground will attract 10,000 extra travelling fans which might be worth £500k but gives the ground extra atmosphere which could cause  our players to freeze...
And our support base believes this..
Smallest ground and lowest average gates for the size in the whole of Europe..
In Thomas and his non league standard stand we believe in 😀
« Last Edit: May 31, 2024, 14:51:48 pm by BedsCobb » Report Spam   Logged
tcobb
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« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2024, 16:35:23 pm »

Beds could you supply the link to KT saying all this, Thanks
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« Reply #23 on: May 31, 2024, 20:56:56 pm »

Beds could you supply the link to KT saying all this, Thanks

Of course he canít - because he didnít say that - what he actually said (paraphrasing) was at this point in time it wasnít the best use of HIS money.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2024, 22:18:17 pm »

Beds could you supply the link to KT saying all this, Thanks
He has on multiple occasions said we donít need a bigger stadium.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2024, 05:22:33 am »

It might be worse. I'm sure Northampton is bigger that that 😊 And MK is bigger than us I think. But in no way is it an accurate guide to anticipated attendances. Location, demographic and many more factors determine outcomes. You would have to firmly include us into the two teams towns. Unless you are bizarrely ruling out the Saints. Unfortunately. So does the size of the ground. A bigger ground would definitively attract more support. So whilst its not the preserve of Beds, we all know that. We're just not repeating it ad infinitum.
Maybe had we more demanding voices within our clubs support base we wouldn't be facing the awful mess unfolding before our eyes?
The council listen to the supporters first and if they see we're happy playing out of a tiny non league ground...Its what we get. The council see we obviously dont need land for developing the ground to a proper standsrd so give it all to speculators to waste building warehouse service roads and carparks for others wasting the Cobblers share on it.

Our problem isn't Cardoza or Thomas..Its us.
These owners must be pi55ing themselves at how daft our clubs fans must appear to them..

I don't blame Thomas for serving us up this one-sided and unfair horses arse parading as a £5.800.000 redevelopment ..Why would he do any different.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 05:33:37 am by BedsCobb » Report Spam   Logged
BedsCobb
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« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2024, 05:40:18 am »

Just quoting you TFAH but not directed at you necessarily.

Milton Keynes Capacity 2007 - 2014 - 22,0000
Milton Keynes Attendance  2007 - 2014 - 9,327

Milton Keynes Capacity 2015 - Current - 30,000
Milton Keynes Attendance 2015 - Current - 9,234

So more seats = less fans!

They also have scope / space to extend to 45,000.
So why doesn't ntfc rip a few 100 seats out if its a cost effective way of raising gates?
Also note during this time several rugby and international football games were played to full houses..
There can be no excuse for a 130 year old professional club with quarter of a million inhabitants playing out of a non league ground with less just 7800 capacity..
Despite what Thomas tells you.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2024, 05:46:27 am »

Northamptons population as of the last census is 243,511, and Milton Keynes is now 287,100. I don't know how that affects the figures. And cities do make it complicated (is Dagenham smaller or bigger than us? What affect does having Westham and Millwall up the road do to that).

The issue is though, it is physically beyond our limitation to not be the worst supported town in the league though. To be next to the second worst supported teams we'd need average attendances of 9,600... to be an average supported team we'd need attendances of 17,000. When your stadium holds 7,000, thats a little hard to do.

Do I think that increasing our capacity to 10k would give us 9.5k crowds? Doesnt look like it based on how late it takes us to get to sell out, on the games we have we might scrape another 500-1000 on buy on the day, maybe.

The obvious elephant in the room, is how many of those teams in League one have not been above the 3rd step in the pyramid in 60 years? You have to be 70 years old or older to be someone who remembers anything other than League 1 or League 2 football, how many under 60s in Northampton are going to be attracted to that?

I bet the average age of a cobbler supporter skews way older than the norm as well.


I was driving between Bedford and Northampton on the A428 when in the deepest countryside,  miles from any built up area I was greeted with a 'Welcome to the City of Milton Keynes' this several miles from Northampton Bedford and also Milton Keynes!
They have obviously cast a huge net and claimed all the inhabitants within to be Milton Keyners....
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2024, 05:53:43 am »

Northamptons population as of the last census is 243,511, and Milton Keynes is now 287,100. I don't know how that affects the figures. And cities do make it complicated (is Dagenham smaller or bigger than us? What affect does having Westham and Millwall up the road do to that).

The issue is though, it is physically beyond our limitation to not be the worst supported town in the league though. To be next to the second worst supported teams we'd need average attendances of 9,600... to be an average supported team we'd need attendances of 17,000. When your stadium holds 7,000, thats a little hard to do.

Do I think that increasing our capacity to 10k would give us 9.5k crowds? Doesnt look like it based on how late it takes us to get to sell out, on the games we have we might scrape another 500-1000 on buy on the day, maybe.

The obvious elephant in the room, is how many of those teams in League one have not been above the 3rd step in the pyramid in 60 years? You have to be 70 years old or older to be someone who remembers anything other than League 1 or League 2 football, how many under 60s in Northampton are going to be attracted to that?

I bet the average age of a cobbler supporter skews way older than the norm as well.


The major cause for any apathy or fans not willing to turn up regularly is the state of tiny Sixfields,  its just so unappealing with its bus shelter sized stands..Football is all about entertainment and the ground is the theatre and needs to be attractive..if either is missing then gates won't grow.
We have never had a 5 figure gate at Sixfields...
And thanks to Thomas and his warehouse, never will.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2024, 06:04:31 am by BedsCobb » Report Spam   Logged
BedsCobb
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« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2024, 06:00:25 am »

Of course he canít - because he didnít say that - what he actually said (paraphrasing) was at this point in time it wasnít the best use of HIS money.
We could use the running track money, that certainly belongs to the Cobblers not Thomas!
But Sadly I believe its being used to build access roads and carparking for warehousing...
Never mind the Cobblers...here's the warehouse..
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« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2024, 06:25:18 am »

You got up at 5am, to provide us with five consecutive posts on the same thread?
You really do need to step back from your crusade.
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Peter Frost
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« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2024, 06:39:41 am »

He has on multiple occasions said we donít need a bigger stadium.

.....but we still seem a little short on even a single referenced quote to that effect
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2024, 07:09:37 am »

Redev thread please.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #33 on: June 01, 2024, 13:47:54 pm »

Redev thread please.
Jesus, nobody can be bothered to read that bÚllocks in the first place, donít make him repeat it.
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« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2024, 16:02:36 pm »

I don't think we can rule out County Cricket and most certainly the Saints.

I've lost count of the amount of my mates that used to stand on the Hotel End with me, but now go down the road. Out of the group of 8 of us that used to go home and away, three of them are now season ticket holders at the Saints. That's without trying to count how many from the wider group that I knew around me in the old days. Cricket probably has less of an impact, due to it being a summer sport. But there is plenty who make the choice in favour of it. We are definitely a two team town. Plus an influence thrown in from Cricket. In addition to that, being equidistant from Birmingham and London doesn't help. Silverstone, Rockingham, Santa pod, and Brafield.. Aren.t we spoilt 😁

 

I wonder if it's the lack of progress with The Cobblers that has allowed The Saints, with essentially a minority sport, to dominate the town. Those that went to the semi-final at Franklins Gardens got a proper uplifting occasion with crowd numbers to match. They would have even heard cries of "Shoe Army!" between the monotonous "When the Saints go Marching In" chant
No matter what we achieve on the pitch we are stuck with a league 2 ground and will be shackled by that until someone has the "If you build it they will come" vision. It's the same throughout the leagues especially in the Prem. The clubs with Europe aspirations have all built or are planning 60,000+ stadiums .
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« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2024, 08:33:32 am »

Having said all that, we need to do more to get more of the population in to the stadium, and the answer to that (IMO) is going to be on the Transfer Rumours thread.

Well said as in my experience of supporting the Cobblers itís what you put out on the pitch which draws the crowds. That eventually should be the incentive for stadium capacity increase?
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2024, 12:54:09 pm »

Well said as in my experience of supporting the Cobblers itís what you put out on the pitch which draws the crowds. That eventually should be the incentive for stadium capacity increase?
Are you saying we've been 5hite for the past 20 years?
No, we've had some good teams and players, it's the poor ownership who are not interested in the club or its infrastructure after they've made their fortune from the land the club stands.
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tcobb
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« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2024, 13:44:48 pm »

How about the s***e supporters who don't turn up to games but constantly moan?  They show less interest in Supporting the Club than the owners who fund it.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2024, 14:08:16 pm »

How about the s***e supporters who don't turn up to games but constantly moan?  They show less interest in Supporting the Club than the owners who fund it.

he has a point... The two most vocal people about the owners. Although one just a puppet. Don't even SUPPORT the side.
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« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2024, 14:53:42 pm »

Are you saying we've been 5hite for the past 20 years?
No, we've had some good teams and players, it's the poor ownership who are not interested in the club or its infrastructure after they've made their fortune from the land the club stands.
Genuine question... which clubs / owners do you look at and think "if only we had them..."
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