Fan engagement policy

[TVOR]

At the next forum, can you please ask the club to commit to not changing the badge. Or if they do to have a proper fan involvement to chose options, including 'keep the current'.

[DavCobb]

The new directive reminds me of the 'consultation of employees regs' which came into force in 2005, something I was heavily involved in for many years. In essence a business (NTFC) consulting with its customers (fans) via a forum. If I was the club I would very quickly demonstrate a couple of easy wins that have come from a meeting/suggestions.

With these things you go in thinking you can change the world but quickly realise you are providing a barometer on the feelings of the masses and influence/challenge where you can.
I certainly don't see that it will be an echo chamber but if it grows organically in the right way I can see both the club and fans benefitting from some positive outcomes.

The Trust will hate it, criticise it but ultimately in 2024 this new forum is the 'Supporters Trust' and will be for many clubs across the country. It is exactly why this directive has been brought in to connect fanbases with their clubs.

[Terryfenwickatemyhamster]

The Trust will hate it, criticise it but ultimately in 2024 this new forum is the 'Supporters Trust' and will be for many clubs across the country. It is exactly why this directive has been brought in to connect fanbases with their clubs.

I can't see why. It is all part of a bigger movement that has been wanted by most supporters groups for years. Had they spent their time more constructively, in active dialogue with the support and the club, they might well have been viewed as an interested party. Instead they chose to take on the club in an embarrassing series of clandestine meetings with third parties that bared no fruit, and just served to distance themselves further from the club. In my opinion. If they really had the supporters interest at heart, they would step aside. In turn this would more than likely allow the new board to re-engage with the club, and hopefully exert some influence. Otherwise they will continue to limp along, whilst the whole fan and club relationship structure is established in their absence. A shame really. As there is, and should be, a place for what was historically a pioneering force for good.

[DavCobb]

I can't see why. It is all part of a bigger movement that has been wanted by most supporters groups for years. Had they spent their time more constructively, in active dialogue with the support and the club, they might well have been viewed as an interested party. Instead they chose to take on the club in an embarrassing series of clandestine meetings with third parties that bared no fruit, and just served to distance themselves further from the club. In my opinion. If they really had the supporters interest at heart, they would step aside. In turn this would more than likely allow the new board to re-engage with the club, and hopefully exert some influence. Otherwise they will continue to limp along, whilst the whole fan and club relationship structure is established in their absence. A shame really. As there is, and should be, a place for what was historically a pioneering force for good.

Sorry I meant 3 or 4 individuals and not all Trust members. Lazy to paint everyone with the same brush.
I’m sure the vast majority of fans will welcome this initiative with open arms and as a force for good.

[Manwork04]

I can't see why. It is all part of a bigger movement that has been wanted by most supporters groups for years. Had they spent their time more constructively, in active dialogue with the support and the club, they might well have been viewed as an interested party. Instead they chose to take on the club in an embarrassing series of clandestine meetings with third parties that bared no fruit, and just served to distance themselves further from the club. In my opinion. If they really had the supporters interest at heart, they would step aside. In turn this would more than likely allow the new board to re-engage with the club, and hopefully exert some influence. Otherwise they will continue to limp along, whilst the whole fan and club relationship structure is established in their absence. A shame really. As there is, and should be, a place for what was historically a pioneering force for good.

Good post Tel, the last sentence should not be forgotten.

[Merry Comrade]

 I agree that this is a very good post Tel. Personally I would hate to see the demise of the Trust and it saddens me to think of those fine supporters who donated countless man hours and also money to ensure the fans voices were heard and now find themselves shackled to something that is a shadow of its former self. I do sense that the FAB (or SAB if you prefer) is a game changer and that the Trust Board will need to radically overhaul itself inorder to redifine it's role and justify it's continued existence. As an aside at the next FAB meeting could someone ask a question about programmes. I noted there was not one produced for the Norwich friendly and I suspect that the club may be following others and intend to produce a digital only programme. For me that would be a shame but I'm not sure how many others share my view.

[Zen Master]

FAB

[singcobb]

FAB

Fings Are Bad

[Melbourne Cobbler]

The Football Trusts primarily came about to represent the supporters interests and protect the clubs from mismanagement and abuse. With the introduction of the new governance bill and the independent regulator that responsibility should be fulfilled by legislation. Assuming it works as intended and the legislation is robust enough, what is the role of football trusts in all of this? Some people would argue that in the wrong hands with people poorly qualified to take on the responsibilities, there is a risk that a Trust could be counter productive or actually damaging for a club. So given the capabilities and powers of the regulator, presumably that risk wouldn't be a consideration if the supporters interests were now solely protected by the legislation and regulator.
Genuine question, in light of all this is there still a place in football for the trusts, once the bill is implemented. In other industries consumers have sometimes been poorly represented by regulators and consumer groups still exist. So will there be the motivation for the Trusts to continue, and in any event is it still important that they do? Should the regulator get involved and ensure there are strict guidelines around transparency, decision making and rules regarding accountability and conduct for elected representatives of the Trusts. Or should they remain completely independent and autonomous? There is a proud history around the Trusts, particularly ours, but is that reason enough for them to continue in the event the new legislation proves itself adequate? Particularly if there is a risk that the Trusts themselves could be mismanaged and any powers or influence they have abused?

[A view from afar]

The Football Trusts primarily came about to represent the supporters interests and protect the clubs from mismanagement and abuse. With the introduction of the new governance bill and the independent regulator that responsibility should be fulfilled by legislation. Assuming it works as intended and the legislation is robust enough, what is the role of football trusts in all of this? Some people would argue that in the wrong hands with people poorly qualified to take on the responsibilities, there is a risk that a Trust could be counter productive or actually damaging for a club. So given the capabilities and powers of the regulator, presumably that risk wouldn't be a consideration if the supporters interests were now solely protected by the legislation and regulator.
Genuine question, in light of all this is there still a place in football for the trusts, once the bill is implemented. In other industries consumers have sometimes been poorly represented by regulators and consumer groups still exist. So will there be the motivation for the Trusts to continue, and in any event is it still important that they do? Should the regulator get involved and ensure there are strict guidelines around transparency, decision making and rules regarding accountability and conduct for elected representatives of the Trusts. Or should they remain completely independent and autonomous? There is a proud history around the Trusts, particularly ours, but is that reason enough for them to continue in the event the new legislation proves itself adequate? Particularly if there is a risk that the Trusts themselves could be mismanaged and any powers or influence they have abused?

Great post Mellie, I’d even go as far as to all the Trust to put a vote out to ALL SUPPORTERS, to decide if the funds they currently hold, contributed to by ALL SUPPORTERS…. should be handed over to the FAB to use in projects decided by the now fans representation body the FAB.
That money doesn’t belong to the acting bloke whatever his name is… it belongs to the fans.

[guest3474]

Great post Mellie, I’d even go as far as to all the Trust to put a vote out to ALL SUPPORTERS, to decide if the funds they currently hold, contributed to by ALL SUPPORTERS…. should be handed over to the FAB to use in projects decided by the now fans representation body the FAB.
That money doesn’t belong to the acting bloke whatever his name is… it belongs to the fans.

This one made me laugh - but not because I disagree with the principle - more that the likelihood of it happening under the current regime is pretty remote - however if FAB builds up support and the current Trust does not become more adaptable to the changing climate then there just could be justification to make a legal challenge on this subject.

[BackOfTheNet]

It's a fair point and worthy of discussion, but I think this was actually put to the vote and it was agreed that the donated funds should be kept as a "rainy day" fund, not for frittering away on minor aesthetic changes to the ground.

As much as the FAB have superceded the Trust, they aren't actually a distinct legal entity, just a group put together by the club, so if the money was transferred away from the Trust's accounts, where would it go? Presumably into the club's coffers, and even if it was ring fenced it would still be club funds, so if we were to find ourselves in the mire again it couldn't be used to help bail us out.

Personally, I think the Trust are effectively acting as an escrow service for those funds and I don't see any harm in letting that remain the case. The Trust are many things, but I don't think they are dishonest (well, not in the sense that they'd steal anything, anyway! )

[Manwork04]

It's a fair point and worthy of discussion, but I think this was actually put to the vote and it was agreed that the donated funds should be kept as a "rainy day" fund, not for frittering away on minor aesthetic changes to the ground.

As much as the FAB have superceded the Trust, they aren't actually a distinct legal entity, just a group put together by the club, so if the money was transferred away from the Trust's accounts, where would it go? Presumably into the club's coffers, and even if it was ring fenced it would still be club funds, so if we were to find ourselves in the mire again it couldn't be used to help bail us out.

Personally, I think the Trust are effectively acting as an escrow service for those funds and I don't see any harm in letting that remain the case. The Trust are many things, but I don't think they are dishonest (well, not in the sense that they'd steal anything, anyway! )

Couldn’t agree more, haven’t seen an escrow contract for a while 😉

[guest3474]

Agree with the above points and whilst the Trust are many things financial dishonesty or indeed financial personal gain are two characteristics I would never label them with. In the short medium term particularly as they are a legal entity it makes absolute sense they hold any fan produced monies - however in the fullness of time if that becomes their only function it will need revisiting

[tcobb]

I don't think anybody from this forum would / could accuse board members of the Trust of  taking a financial gain from their organisation.
Not sure if members of the Trust Board might accuse people from here from making a financial gain from this forum though. 

[A view from afar]

It's a fair point and worthy of discussion, but I think this was actually put to the vote and it was agreed that the donated funds should be kept as a "rainy day" fund, not for frittering away on minor aesthetic changes to the ground.

As much as the FAB have superceded the Trust, they aren't actually a distinct legal entity, just a group put together by the club, so if the money was transferred away from the Trust's accounts, where would it go? Presumably into the club's coffers, and even if it was ring fenced it would still be club funds, so if we were to find ourselves in the mire again it couldn't be used to help bail us out.

Personally, I think the Trust are effectively acting as an escrow service for those funds and I don't see any harm in letting that remain the case. The Trust are many things, but I don't think they are dishonest (well, not in the sense that they'd steal anything, anyway! )

Just for clarity in case you know who still thinks it’s ok to threaten with unwarranted legal action.
I’m not suggesting anything untoward, I’m stating that the money held should be used for the new fans representation group to use as it sees fit.

[BackOfTheNet]

Just for clarity in case you know who still thinks it’s ok to threaten with unwarranted legal action.
I’m not suggesting anything untoward, I’m stating that the money held should be used for the new fans representation group to use as it sees fit.

I hadn't read any accusation into your comment, I was just pointing out there are practical advantages from the current arrangement.

[A view from afar]

I hadn't read any accusation into your comment, I was just pointing out there are practical advantages from the current arrangement.

Understand that mate.
I just wanted to cover myself, after all, suggesting something that was true historically was enough for an individual to act like a complete helmet so offering up something which could be deemed as inflammatory lies would not be wise in my old age.
We know how some like to give it. Right?

[guest3687]

Least said soonest mended!

[Manwork04]

Least said soonest mended!

Indeed, spoils the forum a bit though.😉