Thoughts on the season.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

Yeah no

etcetera etcetera.....

[GrangeParkCobbler]

I don’t understand the term ‘establishing yourself as a league 1 club’ and what relevance it has to a clubs success in the future?. Shrewsbury had been in the division 10 years before being relegated, Luton have been flying up and down the leagues for years now. A club is only as good as their last few transfer windows, management and youth system.
With the size of our club unless we get a rich owner willing to spunk away a fortune we will be at the lower end of the food chain in league one. We’ve seen in the past with the Chinese money extra investment doesn’t necessarily push the needle and guarantees you nothing.
In terms of recruitment of course like every other club in the division we will be trying to bring in the best players that are the right fit for the club. This doesn’t necessarily have to be someone like Hylton who was almost universally regarded as a coup, it could be a player at a rival club deemed not good enough and derided by their fans like Ricky Holmes. At the start of the season if I was offered Fosu and Roberts or Shaw and Taylor, I would have chosen the former and been completely wrong.
On a side note the season curve this year ended better than the last when we went on an awful run which we can take as a positive going into the new season.

Agree with much of this.

I would like to see a complete overhaul of training, fitness and recruitment. I do not agree with the over-reliance on loan players (IMO) and that has already been mentioned as a reason why we might not have our squad finalised until a month into the new season.
Kelvin talks about having to "find a way we can make some of these permanent"..... well I hope so, rather that than have seven/eight/nine more loanees next season.

The youth setup needs looking at too, again its about finding a way to actually start bringing some of our own into the fold, otherwise what's the point in having all these players we send out to Wellingborough, St Neots, AFC Rushden and Diamonds  or whoever?

An interesting summer ahead.... a team/squad chosen by KN, playing in a way dictated by KN, and staying fit more often than not will work wonders next season!

[Manwork04]

Agree with much of this.

I would like to see a complete overhaul of training, fitness and recruitment. I do not agree with the over-reliance on loan players (IMO) and that has already been mentioned as a reason why we might not have our squad finalised until a month into the new season.
Kelvin talks about having to "find a way we can make some of these permanent"..... well I hope so, rather that than have seven/eight/nine more loanees next season.

The youth setup needs looking at too, again its about finding a way to actually start bringing some of our own into the fold, otherwise what's the point in having all these players we send out to Wellingborough, St Neots, AFC Rushden and Diamonds  or whoever?

An interesting summer ahead.... a team/squad chosen by KN, playing in a way dictated by KN, and staying fit more often than not will work wonders next season!

Spot on GPC, I couldn’t agree more about our youth set up, it’s simply not working, the current crop are miles off the first team.
One or two quality loans are fine, but when it’s half the team it’s destructive.

[Melbourne Cobbler]

Agree with much of this.

I would like to see a complete overhaul of training, fitness and recruitment. I do not agree with the over-reliance on loan players (IMO) and that has already been mentioned as a reason why we might not have our squad finalised until a month into the new season.
Kelvin talks about having to "find a way we can make some of these permanent"..... well I hope so, rather that than have seven/eight/nine more loanees next season.

The youth setup needs looking at too, again its about finding a way to actually start bringing some of our own into the fold, otherwise what's the point in having all these players we send out to Wellingborough, St Neots, AFC Rushden and Diamonds  or whoever?

An interesting summer ahead.... a team/squad chosen by KN, playing in a way dictated by KN, and staying fit more often than not will work wonders next season!

All of which requires an increase in budget. Given that to bring in a player of the caliber of a Terry Taylor or a Costelloe would probably require financial commitments levels above anything previously, it’s a policy that may ultimately see a reduction in quality across the playing squad. Listening to Peterborough supporters, some see bringing players with potential as a waste of money. They complain that for every player that they sell on for a fee there are 6 or 7 that don’t work out and drain the club of finances. Thats even when taking the successful transfer deals into consideration. The level of debt they have accrued suggests that is the case, so there is obviously some merit in their opinion. Would people be adverse to doing away with the youth team and focusing the resource on the first team? Would they have put the East Stand budget into the playing budget instead. The bottom line is that there is a limit to what the current owners (or perhaps future) are likely put in and any change regarding the nature of what is being proposed will undoubtedly be a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Without knowing the ins and outs of the financial position it’s hard to make a judgement, but it seems to me that utilising the loans market means we can bring in players that are probably beyond us. At the end of the day this is one of the most successful periods we have enjoyed in modern times, so it’s a policy that can’t really be described as a failure.

[Omega]

I’m not sure why this same discussion does the rounds - sure we would all like a solid first team that we own but the absolute reality is 5 or 6 players on loan have been pivotal in keeping us in this division and there is no way they would ever be permanent signings- at our current financial position loans will remain a significant part of our squad next season.

[Shoemaker]

I’m not sure why this same discussion does the rounds - sure we would all like a solid first team that we own but the absolute reality is 5 or 6 players on loan have been pivotal in keeping us in this division and there is no way they would ever be permanent signings- at our current financial position loans will remain a significant part of our squad next season.

But will we go forwards doing this or backwards as we have this season?
Have we one sellable asset in our squad as it stands?
In fact in the time we’ve been in league one have we had one sellable asset that would bring in a level of income to enable us to buy better players?
I’m sorry but to me it’s another season of the same old mantra and you won’t get away with it for long until you get an inevitable relegation.

[U.T.C]

Nice and sunny today 🌞

[Melbourne Cobbler]

But will we go forwards doing this or backwards as we have this season?
Have we one sellable asset in our squad as it stands?
In fact in the time we’ve been in league one have we had one sellable asset that would bring in a level of income to enable us to buy better players?
I’m sorry but to me it’s another season of the same old mantra and you won’t get away with it for long until you get an inevitable relegation.

Genuine question, how would you increase the possibility of us obtaining a saleable asset and keep within the current budgetary constraints. I’m also sorry but from the other perspective it’s another preseason of advice regarding what we could/should/must do, without the first indication of how to achieve it, unless you know otherwise?

[Michael Walker]

But will we go forwards doing this or backwards as we have this season?
Have we one sellable asset in our squad as it stands?
In fact in the time we’ve been in league one have we had one sellable asset that would bring in a level of income to enable us to buy better players?
I’m sorry but to me it’s another season of the same old mantra and you won’t get away with it for long until you get an inevitable relegation.

It's an interesting debate that highlights the constraints on meaningful discussion without more accurate data.

None of us know how close the club is to the Salary Cost Mangement Protocol cap of 60% so we don't know what are the possibilities on spending more money on wages in any case.

Factor in the growth in income for 25/26 from the East Stand and the rise in attendances over the last 1/4 of this season and nobody outside the club knows our playing budget or what it's spent on.

There is an argument,  and one I support,  that clubs could be required to publish the budgets that they send to the EFL several times a year that answers these questions.

And it's not to be nosey (well alright it is partly), but I think the vast majority of supporters of all clubs have no idea how insolvent most clubs are at the moment.

If hypothetically,  we saw a playing budget for 25/26 of £4.75m and a forecast loss of £2m then supporters should/would be much less likely to demand more expensive players.

 I don't think all clubs have got anything to lose by standardised information being made available at the same time. They have to send it to the EFL anyway.

And of course the clubs spending priorities are a matter of choice - for example, KT has made clear that in an ideal world he would like to replace the seats in the West Stand. Now if that was to cost c£175,000 this is the wages of a mid range player.

Would supporters want better seats at the cost of that final player?

We have a good debate in here about finances etc, but to most of the 7,000 supporters who come every week the Cobblers are only about the game and the result..

[Shoemaker]

Genuine question, how would you increase the possibility of us obtaining a saleable asset and keep within the current budgetary constraints. I’m also sorry but from the other perspective it’s another preseason of advice regarding what we could/should/must do, without the first indication of how to achieve it, unless you know otherwise?

If I owned the club I would be prepared to sell 25% to a new investor in order to raise more funding with an option to buy the club within a certain timeframe.
The elephant in the room is the land deal and any new investor would rightly demand a share of profits.
We are on the right track with the signing of players like shaw but we desperately fail year after year by not investing money on proven strikers who will command transfer fees.
More investment would be the difference between buying the players we discover in the loan market rather than being a development club for others in the division to benefit from.
KN more than any recent manager would have my backing in the transfer market if I was the owner.
I feel we have a once in a generation chance of building the club under KN and he can identify players we should buy that WILL be able to be sold on for big profits , sustaining us as a proper league one club being able to identify, buy and sell on rather than let our rivals benefit from the situation.
Ultimately it’s a wilderedque situation with KN as I’m sure he will soon be Bolton next manager and it’s my belief we should be using his abilities to build the club rather than continue to stagnate at this level.

I really believe we have a chance if KN is backed and the owners bring in more investment.
The reality in what is coming out of the club is it’s more of the same ,KN knows the situation and we will be looking at what’s left over in the loan market at the end of the window.

In a nutshell I believe the club is very sellable at the minute and has a lot going for it as a club to take to the next level , the problem is it appears unsellable due to the tie in with the land deal.
That’s the way I see it.

[Michael Walker]

If I owned the club I would be prepared to sell 25% to a new investor in order to raise more funding with an option to buy the club within a certain timeframe.
The elephant in the room is the land deal and any new investor would rightly demand a share of profits.
We are on the right track with the signing of players like shaw but we desperately fail year after year by not investing money on proven strikers who will command transfer fees.
More investment would be the difference between buying the players we discover in the loan market rather than being a development club for others in the division to benefit from.
KN more than any recent manager would have my backing in the transfer market if I was the owner.
I feel we have a once in a generation chance of building the club under KN and he can identify players we should buy that WILL be able to be sold on for big profits , sustaining us as a proper league one club being able to identify, buy and sell on rather than let our rivals benefit from the situation.
Ultimately it’s a wilderedque situation with KN as I’m sure he will soon be Bolton next manager and it’s my belief we should be using his abilities to build the club rather than continue to stagnate at this level.

I really believe we have a chance if KN is backed and the owners bring in more investment.
The reality in what is coming out of the club is it’s more of the same ,KN knows the situation and we will be looking at what’s left over in the loan market at the end of the window.

In a nutshell I believe the club is very sellable at the minute and has a lot going for it as a club to take to the next level , the problem is it appears unsellable due to the tie in with the land deal.
That’s the way I see it.

Bear in mind that they have already sold 25% of the club to Nigel Le Quesne.

The issue with the owners selling some of their existing shareholding to a new part owner is that that money goes to the shareholders rather than the club. (Unless the owners then lend that money back to the club, which is effectively what partly happened last season)

If the shareholders collectively agreed to increase the number of shares then the money could stay in the club.

But the amount raised would be relatively small and it's a one off - let's say we increase the shares by 25% and sell that share for £2.5m.

At the moment we lose £2m a year - so most of this new money is 'lost' in year 1 on our deficit.

I think increasing share capital should only be used to pay for capital expenditure such as expanding the North or South stands.

I agree about KN entirely.

[GrangeParkCobbler]

It's an interesting debate that highlights the constraints on meaningful discussion without more accurate data.

None of us know how close the club is to the Salary Cost Mangement Protocol cap of 60% so we don't know what are the possibilities on spending more money on wages in any case.

Factor in the growth in income for 25/26 from the East Stand and the rise in attendances over the last 1/4 of this season and nobody outside the club knows our playing budget or what it's spent on.

There is an argument,  and one I support,  that clubs could be required to publish the budgets that they send to the EFL several times a year that answers these questions.

And it's not to be nosey (well alright it is partly), but I think the vast majority of supporters of all clubs have no idea how insolvent most clubs are at the moment.

If hypothetically,  we saw a playing budget for 25/26 of £4.75m and a forecast loss of £2m then supporters should/would be much less likely to demand more expensive players.

 I don't think all clubs have got anything to lose by standardised information being made available at the same time. They have to send it to the EFL anyway.

And of course the clubs spending priorities are a matter of choice - for example, KT has made clear that in an ideal world he would like to replace the seats in the West Stand. Now if that was to cost c£175,000 this is the wages of a mid range player.

Would supporters want better seats at the cost of that final player?

We have a good debate in here about finances etc, but to most of the 7,000 supporters who come every week the Cobblers are only about the game and the result..

In plain and simple terms, our turnover as per the last set of accounts was around £6.7m, this would allow a playing budget of just over £4m with SCMP.

The same accounts point to a 43% increase in the playing budget for the same year, crude figures might suggest an increase from say £2m to say £2.9m, so with that we would be well within the requirements.

Of course without any additional income all that increasing the wage bill would do would be to increase the losses!

[Omega]

Purely conjecture but I think KN will want a full season with his budget and his players - probably aiming for a top 10 position- if he achieves that I think he will be on the market for a higher paid, bigger budget club. As already mentioned Bolton fans love him and if they fail again next season I’m sure they will be looking at him. Whatever happens I only think we have KN for a season and I agree we are in a good position re further investment in the club - we need a good season, the land deal cut so any benefit to the club is confirmed - the bonus would be increasing our assets* on the field.

*Just slightly off topic but IMO Charlie Goode was never worth anywhere near £1m so anything is possible re player value.

[TVOR]

Pro's (sure there are more)
Stayed up in a division offset by big money
Beat P*sh home and away.
Didnt lose to Birmingham
Got a great manager
East Stand finished.

Cons (again likely more)
Lost a great guy in Brady
No decent cup run
Kettering
Too many injuries (again).

Overall a good season and finished up pretty much as expected.
Will be interesting to see what business KN and CC can do in the summer but looking forward to it, expect it to be slightly more comfortable than this year but not ready for the playoffs just yet 

[Michael Walker]

In plain and simple terms, our turnover as per the last set of accounts was around £6.7m, this would allow a playing budget of just over £4m with SCMP.

The same accounts point to a 43% increase in the playing budget for the same year, crude figures might suggest an increase from say £2m to say £2.9m, so with that we would be well within the requirements.

Of course without any additional income all that increasing the wage bill would do would be to increase the losses!

I think you are in the right ball park because of the information that we can benchmark ourselves against with Exeter for 23/24. (Although there's quite a high variation possible around that figure.)

Their SCMP was 49% on a very similar turnover. Cobblers spent £514k more on wages & salaries (£5.65m to £5.13m) in total.

Therefore, unless we were spending vastly more on non playing wages we would probably be above but closish  to Exeters SCMP in 23/24.

Salarysport.com have our wages higher than the implied figures but these are only orders of magnitude.

What is interesting is what the change in salary Sport wages between 23/24 and 24/25 imply about our wage bill last year and the SCMP depending on our turnover.

As I said, I can't see any reason why EFL League One clubs cannot publish the future financial information that they are obliged to send to the Club Financial Reporting Unit (CFRU) of the English Football League to assess the financial health of the club and its compliance with the SCMP.

 This includes annual accounts, interim accounts (for Championship clubs), and future financial information forecasts (FFI).

[Melbourne Cobbler]

If I owned the club I would be prepared to sell 25% to a new investor in order to raise more funding with an option to buy the club within a certain timeframe.
The elephant in the room is the land deal and any new investor would rightly demand a share of profits.
We are on the right track with the signing of players like shaw but we desperately fail year after year by not investing money on proven strikers who will command transfer fees.
More investment would be the difference between buying the players we discover in the loan market rather than being a development club for others in the division to benefit from.
KN more than any recent manager would have my backing in the transfer market if I was the owner.
I feel we have a once in a generation chance of building the club under KN and he can identify players we should buy that WILL be able to be sold on for big profits , sustaining us as a proper league one club being able to identify, buy and sell on rather than let our rivals benefit from the situation.
Ultimately it’s a wilderedque situation with KN as I’m sure he will soon be Bolton next manager and it’s my belief we should be using his abilities to build the club rather than continue to stagnate at this level.

I really believe we have a chance if KN is backed and the owners bring in more investment.
The reality in what is coming out of the club is it’s more of the same ,KN knows the situation and we will be looking at what’s left over in the loan market at the end of the window.

In a nutshell I believe the club is very sellable at the minute and has a lot going for it as a club to take to the next level , the problem is it appears unsellable due to the tie in with the land deal.
That’s the way I see it.

There’s nothing to stop them selling the club, or a percentage of it, and excluding the land from the deal. That would be a relatively simple process.

[DavCobb]

There’s nothing to stop them selling the club, or a percentage of it, and excluding the land from the deal. That would be a relatively simple process.

I'm sure they would if another Hollywood type came along. Finished ground with a stable L1 team, large catchment area (just for Beds) and potential to grow.
Any potential owner wouldn't have to worry about the land, unless they wanted a few more yards behind the East.
Not sure how you'd value it but shouldn't cost too much to purchase a L1 team making a loss.

It was a solid season but never going to be very exciting after getting dumped out of the cups and no real chance of promotion or relegation.
The highlight definitely the P*sh double.

The gut feel is that Nolan (with his backing) isn't likely to take us to the next level and compete in the top half but stranger things have happened. I agree that if he does move us up the table he will be onto his next challenge.