TVOR
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« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2025, 08:42:48 am » |
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Trying to limit how much I post about the Trust but...
I honestly believe the Trust Board want what is right for the club, they are passionate and put a great deal of their personal time to that affect. They are in no way anti club, quite the opposite, I think they are some of the truest supporters of the club that exist.
However...
I do believe they are anti owners and this severly clouds their judgement in both communications and actions. I believe them when they say they bid for the land for the future of the club. I also think it was a bat s*** crazy idea, short sighted and didnt look at the bigger picture.
Trying to keep it at a role not individual level as not meant to be persona. The chairman has stated that he failed in his task of re building relationships. Surely if this was one of the biggest aims and he failed its time to step aside (in a democratic group, if he offered his resignation and it wasnt accepted by the membership then that is fine).
Similar goes to the rest of the board. I get their fear that the Trust could become a 'fan group' but as they have stated that is happening at Swindon... who has raised that issue? I would guess the fans / members. If so then it shows that the members can be trusted to raise their concerns, and its up to the board to address those concerns. If a new board get too friendly with the owners then they should be challenged as much as a board who have been alienated from the club. Neither serves the purpose they are there to do.
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WekaWeka Cobbler
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« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2025, 08:59:00 am » |
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These are good points: fundamentally I think the skill of an effective Trust board lies in the management of their relationship with the clubs owners (which ever owners) recognising the relative strengths and weaknesses of each others position. There should almost never be an absolutist breakdown in relationships because where do you go from there? The relationship should be one of support for the good things and a questioning of things that cause concern? The door should always be open for the Trust Chair to ring the club to query something before issuing a press release etc. The confirmation statement is an example of this - it might have been an administrative oversight or something else, but somebody should have contacted the club and asked why it hadn't apparently been filed in time.. The Trust should be the protector of the 'club' in the last resort; and the owners should always recognise this. If any organisation shouts 'fire' too often, then when the building is on fire, most people will ignore 'em. Trying to limit how much I post about the Trust but...
I honestly believe the Trust Board want what is right for the club, they are passionate and put a great deal of their personal time to that affect. They are in no way anti club, quite the opposite, I think they are some of the truest supporters of the club that exist.
However...
I do believe they are anti owners and this severly clouds their judgement in both communications and actions. I believe them when they say they bid for the land for the future of the club. I also think it was a bat s*** crazy idea, short sighted and didnt look at the bigger picture.
Trying to keep it at a role not individual level as not meant to be persona. The chairman has stated that he failed in his task of re building relationships. Surely if this was one of the biggest aims and he failed its time to step aside (in a democratic group, if he offered his resignation and it wasnt accepted by the membership then that is fine).
Similar goes to the rest of the board. I get their fear that the Trust could become a 'fan group' but as they have stated that is happening at Swindon... who has raised that issue? I would guess the fans / members. If so then it shows that the members can be trusted to raise their concerns, and its up to the board to address those concerns. If a new board get too friendly with the owners then they should be challenged as much as a board who have been alienated from the club. Neither serves the purpose they are there to do.
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TVOR
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« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2025, 09:11:40 am » |
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These are good points: fundamentally I think the skill of an effective Trust board lies in the management of their relationship with the clubs owners (which ever owners) recognising the relative strengths and weaknesses of each others position.
There should almost never be an absolutist breakdown in relationships because where do you go from there?
The relationship should be one of support for the good things and a questioning of things that cause concern?
The door should always be open for the Trust Chair to ring the club to query something before issuing a press release etc.
The confirmation statement is an example of this - it might have been an administrative oversight or something else, but somebody should have contacted the club and asked why it hadn't apparently been filed in time..
The Trust should be the protector of the 'club' in the last resort; and the owners should always recognise this. If any organisation shouts 'fire' too often, then when the building is on fire, most people will ignore 'em.
Agree, I think the confirmation statement 'thing' is a good example of where the relationship is. I posted about this at the time but for me it should have been a call to James (or whoever owns the relationship), get the reply, challenge the reply, hold them to account if the reply doesnt come to fruition. Along those lines. Not straight to social media and insinuating there was something un toward. Again agree with your first paragraph, its possible, albeit not easy, to hold a professional respectful relationship with someone you fundamentally don't like or agree with. Unfortunately this now isnt the case from either the Trust not the Club.
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Macc Cobbler
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« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2025, 09:21:35 am » |
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Some good common sense comments being made. It makes a nice change.
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Tabasco Kid
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« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2025, 09:38:05 am » |
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Close, I think it was The Self Righteous Brothers.
We know which one was Frank Doberman.
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Pronoun "bloke".
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BackOfTheNet
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« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2025, 09:47:17 am » |
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I honestly believe the Trust Board want what is right for the club, they are passionate and put a great deal of their personal time to that affect. They are in no way anti club, quite the opposite, I think they are some of the truest supporters of the club that exist.
However...
I do believe they are anti owners and this severly clouds their judgement in both communications and actions. I believe them when they say they bid for the land for the future of the club. I also think it was a bat s*** crazy idea, short sighted and didnt look at the bigger picture.
Completely agree. I don't for one second think the Trust board were acting out of self interest and were genuinely doing what they thought best for the club. As you say though, it was an awful idea and an even worse approach to the attempted execution. It's the judgement that's at fault, not the intent. It's a bit like saying "Yes, i did swerve into that row of parked cars while 3 times over the limit but if I hadn't swerved I'd have hit that group of school kids crossing the road." You picked what was right in your impaired state, but none of it would have happened if you hadn't got behind the wheel in the first place! To really drag out the analogy, their attempts to reconnect with the club are now akin to our imaginary drunk driver asking the owner of one of those parked cars he hit if he can then borrow their car to drive home in!
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2025, 09:57:25 am » |
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Completely agree. I don't for one second think the Trust board were acting out of self interest and were genuinely doing what they thought best for the club.
See, I'm not so sure in all of their cases. But that is an opinion that I have arrived at on my own. However, I am totally on board with the idea that they are not anti club. It does seem that there is a bit of a shifting of sands from the current Trust board, where they are starting to realise that they cannot function in isolation. I hope if this is the case, that the owners are receptive to that change. But we cannot ignore that a lot of bad blood exists on both sides.
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2025, 10:15:38 am by Terryfenwickatemyhamster »
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When it comes to advice. I’m the only one to Trust
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DavCobb
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« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2025, 10:10:55 am » |
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The biggest issue is the Trust accepting what their remit is and influence on the overall club, if they ever do get involved again. At the moment (if they had any voice) if they suggested that the walls were painted white and they were actually painted blue then they would be up in arms.
From the club's perspective I believe that they do want feedback and will act upon it if it makes sense. Any business appreciates the views of its employees and customers. We know that they are not in the game of investing big sums of money without a tangible pay back, not many successful businesses do/will, especially small ones. I do however get the impression that the Trust (in it's current guise) expect the club to jump to every tune and also fail to recognise ANY positive without a "but". Every communication is loaded to some extent. If you drill down to the true root cause it will be an underlying desire for fan ownership somewhere.
In terms of the immediate future of the Trust, I can't see anything other than a 'rinse and repeat' of the attempts last year but credit to any individuals having a go.
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WekaWeka Cobbler
Jr. Member

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« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2025, 11:04:52 am » |
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I think one of the most often missed aspects of this ownership is how much money they have invested into the club since 2015. To avoid quibbling, let's say it's about £15m once the East Stand is completed. Now I know some will argue that the profit from the rest of the land will repay this investment and it might/or will. But I don't think any one can seriously argue that either sold or long-term leased, that land will produce a capital receipt that is in multiples of the owners investment. So, as I think Peter Frost (it might have been someone else) pointed out some time ago, if they had put that £15m into secure funds their return would be higher than their money they've put into the Cobblers net of the land. It's one of the oldest maxims in the book - 'how do you make a small fortune out of owning a football club'. Answer, start with a bigger one. I'm not suggesting that we should organise a whip round for the owners, but I'm grateful that they have invested so much of their own money into NTFC since 2015. All of us might have run the club differently - but who's to say we'd have been any better at it than the owners and James Whiting? Now I know that some people would argue that the vision of many councillors in the 80s & 90s was that the entire area should benefit the club, and this is true. But that ship has longed sailed, and from where we were in 2015 until today, I think the owners deserve our thanks. Michael Walker The biggest issue is the Trust accepting what their remit is and influence on the overall club, if they ever do get involved again. At the moment (if they had any voice) if they suggested that the walls were painted white and they were actually painted blue then they would be up in arms.
From the club's perspective I believe that they do want feedback and will act upon it if it makes sense. Any business appreciates the views of its employees and customers. We know that they are not in the game of investing big sums of money without a tangible pay back, not many successful businesses do/will, especially small ones. I do however get the impression that the Trust (in it's current guise) expect the club to jump to every tune and also fail to recognise ANY positive without a "but". Every communication is loaded to some extent. If you drill down to the true root cause it will be an underlying desire for fan ownership somewhere.
In terms of the immediate future of the Trust, I can't see anything other than a 'rinse and repeat' of the attempts last year but credit to any individuals having a go.
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F30
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« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2025, 11:12:36 am » |
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It's only fair that they receive equal airing on here. After all, we have promoted membership and activities for them for years.
+1 👍
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Dancing to my own song
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Merry Comrade
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« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2025, 12:13:02 pm » |
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Good luck with your intentions of joining the Trust Board Michael. I hope you are successful and they welcome you with open arms. I agree with many of the points raised in your latest post but I think you will find that the majority of the current board do not. However, they pride themselves on being a 'broad church' and well thought out debate is always well received. I hope you last a little longer than I did.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2025, 12:34:43 pm » |
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I think one of the most often missed aspects of this ownership is how much money they have invested into the club since 2015.
To avoid quibbling, let's say it's about £15m once the East Stand is completed.
Now I know some will argue that the profit from the rest of the land will repay this investment and it might/or will.
But I don't think any one can seriously argue that either sold or long-term leased, that land will produce a capital receipt that is in multiples of the owners investment.
So, as I think Peter Frost (it might have been someone else) pointed out some time ago, if they had put that £15m into secure funds their return would be higher than their money they've put into the Cobblers net of the land.
It's one of the oldest maxims in the book - 'how do you make a small fortune out of owning a football club'. Answer, start with a bigger one.
I'm not suggesting that we should organise a whip round for the owners, but I'm grateful that they have invested so much of their own money into NTFC since 2015.
All of us might have run the club differently - but who's to say we'd have been any better at it than the owners and James Whiting?
Now I know that some people would argue that the vision of many councillors in the 80s & 90s was that the entire area should benefit the club, and this is true.
But that ship has longed sailed, and from where we were in 2015 until today, I think the owners deserve our thanks.
Michael Walker
Good luck if you do join the Board Michael. I hope your balanced and reasoned view of things is accomodated and adopted.
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When it comes to advice. I’m the only one to Trust
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TVOR
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« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2025, 13:00:47 pm » |
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Good luck if you do join the Board Michael. I hope your balanced and reasoned view of things is accomodated and adopted.
+1
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BackOfTheNet
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« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2025, 13:23:34 pm » |
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Good luck if you do join the Board Michael. I hope your balanced and reasoned view of things is accomodated and adopted.
And me.
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The Hotelend Grand National* Sweepstake Champion 2020
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guest3474
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« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2025, 13:37:11 pm » |
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I think some good points raised now in this discussion and hopefully the Trust Board who clearly, either do read, or get reports on what is posted have sufficient maturity and humility to understand this is not simply an echo chamber of accord or a more cynical antitrust collective - rather it is the opinion of fans who equally want the best possible options for the club whilst understanding some of the realities of football club ownership.
It is my belief smaller football clubs need a functioning trust organisation and that organisation should be able to ask difficult questions of the club and alert fans of concerns they are privy to - however the manner in which this is conducted is critical and again I raise the words humility and maturity.
Sometimes in life when playing the long game, even if you believe you are 100% right good leaders and negotiators know when to hold their counsel and even concede some ground - even in the face of provocation. Of course this is fine balance but working well in this way is not as some people may think, a sign of weakness or naivety. The other important characteristic is the ability to leave one's ego outside the door and genuinely listen to different opinions.
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Shoemaker
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« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2025, 14:14:07 pm » |
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I think some good points raised now in this discussion and hopefully the Trust Board who clearly, either do read, or get reports on what is posted have sufficient maturity and humility to understand this is not simply an echo chamber of accord or a more cynical antitrust collective - rather it is the opinion of fans who equally want the best possible options for the club whilst understanding some of the realities of football club ownership.
It is my belief smaller football clubs need a functioning trust organisation and that organisation should be able to ask difficult questions of the club and alert fans of concerns they are privy to - however the manner in which this is conducted is critical and again I raise the words humility and maturity.
Sometimes in life when playing the long game, even if you believe you are 100% right good leaders and negotiators know when to hold their counsel and even concede some ground - even in the face of provocation. Of course this is fine balance but working well in this way is not as some people may think, a sign of weakness or naivety. The other important characteristic is the ability to leave one's ego outside the door and genuinely listen to different opinions.
I’m sure you’ll be welcomed with open arms
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guest3474
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« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2025, 15:31:42 pm » |
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I’m sure you’ll be welcomed with open arms
.....I somehow don't think so!
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singcobb
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« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2025, 16:22:57 pm » |
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How deluded are the current board and their advisor if they think they have any chance of a working relationship with the current owners and any incoming owners for that matter?
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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2025, 17:26:25 pm » |
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How deluded are the current board and their advisor if they think they have any chance of a working relationship with the current owners and any incoming owners for that matter?
+1
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old: Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning We will remember them.” Laurence Binyon
The Hotelend Grand National Sweepstake Champion 2009
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Carton Lid
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2025, 18:30:52 pm » |
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How deluded are the current board and their advisor if they think they have any chance of a working relationship with the current owners and any incoming owners for that matter?
Don't be too sure on that
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