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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1822418 times)
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #20280 on: November 01, 2017, 19:44:48 pm »

That is one of your most sensible posts and most supporters will associate with the sentiments.

The problem is,however, you keep insisting that KT should just move over and let this consortium ol local businessmen move in and take the club to the next level. You claim they are waiting in the wings and merely frustrated as KT drags his heels. The suspicion is that this group either do not exist or are the same individuals involved with the club pre Cardoza. Whilst we all appreciate they are honest individuals and genuine fans,At that time they could not satisfy the revenue. They had not the required resources and the club faced an uncertain future. They could not wait to bail out to the savour at that time. We all know how that worked out.

What is so different this time?
 
We have never been forsale on an open market at a time when were not in complete financial  melt down and our league status under threat so its not hard to imagine that if we were to be sold as a sound and viable club thats just in need proper infrastructure in order to grow the club to cater for our large catchment, I very much believe we would be snapped up sharpish.
Best case senario would be the council give KT and associates nothing forcing them to sell us as a  sound investment .
They must be as fed up wasting our time as much as their own.
No idea where the chinese fits into this if they actually own 60% of the club?

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« Reply #20281 on: November 01, 2017, 20:12:41 pm »

But to sell to whom?
You have often referred to this local consortium who has the clubs best interests at heart. Do they exist or are they a figment of you imagination? Alternatively do you just expect someone go come forward?
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #20282 on: November 01, 2017, 20:49:52 pm »

But to sell to whom?
You have often referred to this local consortium who has the clubs best interests at heart. Do they exist or are they a figment of you imagination? Alternatively do you just expect someone go come forward?
People always just 'come forward' when purchasing anything so yes, if we were to be put up forsale they woukd come.
 Other than the group who were going to take over when we were going to hell in a hand cart there are no local groups that I know of.
If we were to be sold to proper owners who had our clubs interests at the forefront and not just as a means to frigging land and  leases we would find many 1000s of extra locals getting involved in supporting our club.
Northampton folk have grown bored with these apprentice empire builders using Sixfields for their first projects.
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Another Pedj
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« Reply #20283 on: November 01, 2017, 20:57:03 pm »

So without being patronising nobody that you know of. You are hoping for 'a field of dreams." I think therefore that itis surely better that we deal with what we have rather than any fanciful equivalent to John Fashanu or Di Stefano.
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« Reply #20284 on: November 01, 2017, 21:29:09 pm »


Hi Cobblerwatch, the money from Ricky Holmes and sale of shares to those from China. Also if he is taking a wage like DC did (£250k per year) then not bad on £200k investment.

 

......so pure guesswork to suit your argument then
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #20285 on: November 01, 2017, 22:52:47 pm »

So without being patronising nobody that you know of. You are hoping for 'a field of dreams." I think therefore that itis surely better that we deal with what we have rather than any fanciful equivalent to John Fashanu or Di Stefano.
100'S of clubs have been taken over by forward thinking owners who go on to better those clubs, so what I'm saying is why not give us the chance .
KT has proved time and again he's not what we need at this time.
You say better to deal with what we have? But no one knows what we have as they can't present a viable plan!
Mass exaggerations as to what might happen if DC/KT hadn't saved us from Di Stefano
And Fashion is not helping our plight, we will always have a club to support but in what condition will depend on our support base demanding action from those subjecting us to mediocrity for their own gains.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #20286 on: November 01, 2017, 22:59:02 pm »

......so pure guesswork to suit your argument then
Well we can all agree they're not here to do charity work and getting as much money for as little outlay may be the order of the day.
How that helps our ailing club God only knows, but anyway, you obviously work for the club, do you have a point of veiw on all this or just bat away any close guess work?
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« Reply #20287 on: November 02, 2017, 07:24:09 am »

I agree to an extent with Beds' ownership comments about the need to have owners willing and able to take the club to where many consider it should be on the football ladder given the size of the town and its catchment area.  But our history is frankly against us in that we have spent most of the time in the bottom division struggling to survive.  Most of us who were around in the meteoric rise followed by the dramatic fall are now drawing a pension. Too many of our supporters appear happy to accept our lowly station as permanent. This has resulted in a negative or indifferent attitude about ambitions and a quiet acceptance of the status quo.

Beds point is that it needn't be like this. Our ground and infrastructure, whether the dismal County Ground or the inadequate Sixfields is the underlying cause of our long term situation.  After being hailed as our saviour KT has tinkered at the edges only but whatever are his financial limitations he is a vast improvement of the wretched Cardozas.  What the Chinese bring to the Sixfields table financially remains unknown after several months and that is a poor way in which to treat your customer base.  The interviews I have heard this week with KT have been superficial and uninspiring.  JFT works hard and arrives early. Terrific. I take the view that KT is being circumspect on the bigger issues.

Beds again makes a valid point that the club has only ever been openly on the market when we have been in a desperate financial position.  However, that does not mean that a "Mr Loads of Money" is out there waiting to inject millions of pounds into the club, a return on which would be a very stiff challenge.  Any investor would also have to deal with the perpetually under-performing Council and that would be enough to make many walk away. 

I think it is probably right to assume that KT and his invisible lawyer partner have made a return on their investment from the Chinese but it appears that their immediate money has gone into NTFC Ventures and not NTFC Football Club. Some has been filtered to the club to sign the players who joined after the investment but nothing significant.  So, the issue seems to me to be if KT is here for some time to come it is perfectly reasonable for us to expect him to up his game and come clear to us about his plans and the Chinese participation. And please I don't want to hear about education but about the football club.
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« Reply #20288 on: November 02, 2017, 08:18:09 am »

I’m certainly no expert on ltd companies and offshoots etc but it would worry me that the Chinese money has been put into ntfc ventures and not the company Northampton Town football club.
Surely if you are buying x% of the football club you buy into ntfc ltd.

Why the need for setting up northampton ventures ltd ??
What ventures exactly?
Could it be the Chinese have put money into the ventures side of things as those ventures revolve around turning a profit from future land acquisitions?
Why is the extra income not being registered in the actual football club company?
To me it seems no money has dared be put into the actual football club instead it seems to be the start of setting up new companies to make sure the opposite occurs!!

Forgive me for my scepticism but I like many other fans have a vague idea of where the setting up of satellite companies rather than investing straight into Northampton Town football club ltd leads....
My optimism is in no way increased when the boards proclaimed money man David bower resigns from ntfc ventures(I think I’m right,apologies if wrong) soon after extra funding via the Chinese has surfaced...

It won’t take a lot of movements like this to worry fans,certainly when the silence from KT has been deafening since this has all happened which is over a month ago...
To me it seems like an exit strategy having pocketed a profit.

If there is one club where fans have the right to worry and expect direct answers from a board(not a meeting in a few weeks when it suits) then it is ntfc.
You know,the club who have somehow lost in excess of £10M
The club who were made lots of promises regards stadium redevelopment.
The club whose fans felt all was not well and despite being told in a series of interviews that all was on course had the foresight to do some investigations of their own....

I feel that if satisfactory answers aren’t fortciming(and let’s face it they could have easily answered any time in the last month or so) then it won’t be long until those more competent than me on these issues start investigating again...
I do hope history isn’t about to repeat itself,obviously not in the way of missing funds but in the saviour appearing,realising it’s harder than first thought to turn hit the jackpot and then disappearing leaving the club no better off in its quest to expand and progress.

Oh for someone who wants the best for our club and not the money to be made from it.
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« Reply #20289 on: November 02, 2017, 08:22:29 am »

One of the issues is that KT is always going to have the ghost of Cardoza in the background. Building the overwhelming trust of the fan base is never going to happen, or certainly be very difficult.
He is clearly a businessman first and foremost (nothing wrong with that) and is not a rich local fan of the club, everyone knew that from the off. He isn't here to run a charity. I still don't know why these guys choose football clubs but he was well documented as talking about the profile you get running a football club. The Chinese 'education' line is still a strange one and the council still seem to be carrying the can for somehow stopping us from finishing the East Stand mess. We even seem to do overseas investment on a shoestring.

However embarrassing the council are as a poorly run body, I'd be embarrassed to be knocking on their door for any help after the past couple of years. I get the appeal of Sixfields. With the right investment and business placement, that site is an absolute goldmine. On the ring road, next to the M1 etc. Just look at Cineworld compared to Vue in town, or the endless queues to get into McDonalds. So without being too cynical I would guess that there is still more at stake than a stand with a few boxes in.
  
We do seem to be operating in some kind of twilight zone and the chances of us ending up non-league in the next 5-10 years must be as likely as having a well developed (and finished) football ground.

Anyway...the season unfolding on the pitch is far more interesting. It would be great to buck the trend and maintain our L1 status for a while.
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« Reply #20290 on: November 02, 2017, 08:34:36 am »

'LOCAL' consortium? If it was the group who said they would step in if KT was not successful, they stated the did not have the large sums of money to expand the club BUT would keep it afloat!
So please name any new local people willing to give us the chance of a 14,000 seater stadium, hotel, conference centre and Championship playing budget we all pray for! I've been waiting 50+ years for such a local person(s).
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« Reply #20291 on: November 02, 2017, 10:56:46 am »

The 'local consortium' (Barry Stonhill, David Jackson etc) are all associate directors of the club.

https://www.ntfc.co.uk/club/whos-who/
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« Reply #20292 on: November 02, 2017, 12:05:47 pm »


I do hope history isn’t about to repeat itself,obviously not in the way of missing funds but in the saviour appearing,realising it’s harder than first thought to turn hit the jackpot and then disappearing leaving the club no better off in its quest to expand and progress.


In the absence of any real information available, that's where the smart money has to be.

The one thing that couldn't/can't be levelled at either DC or KT is that they have both supported a competitive playing budget on the pitch.
I disagree with a couple of points saying KT would be walking away with a tidy profit, it'd probably be more of a case of damage limitation rather than the golden egg.
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« Reply #20293 on: November 02, 2017, 12:29:31 pm »

Which is basically what KT has done, kept us afloat BUT any investment inwards has gone in his pocket, at least locals you would have hoped, would have kept a long term say in the running and direction of the club.

The Trust now have zero influence on the board under KT (unless he wants them to lobby NBC on HIS behalf)



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« Reply #20294 on: November 02, 2017, 13:36:07 pm »

Which is basically what KT has done, kept us afloat BUT any investment inwards has gone in his pocket,


That's at best supposition as at worst libellous, isn't it?
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« Reply #20295 on: November 02, 2017, 13:41:16 pm »

That's at best supposition as at worst libellous, isn't it?

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« Reply #20296 on: November 02, 2017, 13:47:09 pm »

Well we can all agree they're not here to do charity work and getting as much money for as little outlay may be the order of the day.
How that helps our ailing club God only knows, but anyway, you obviously work for the club, do you have a point of veiw on all this or just bat away any close guess work?

It’s not a question of batting away close guesswork (although I use the word close loosely) and yes I have 3 points of view but unfortunately both you and random will not address them specifically, rather fashion answers based on your own prejudices - but I will give it a go

(1) Few disagree with the view the current situation is shambles and successive owners of the club have not taken the club significantly forward to even close to what a town of this size could expect
(2) KT is a businessman and there is little doubt he sees this venture as an opportunity to make money and most reasonable observers think if the club benefits that’s a win win situation. Outside the money I wouldn’t totally discount the ego appeal of owning a football club - people reach a certain point in wealth creation and then it becomes meaningless and their motivation becomes somewhat different. Everyone has been affected by the actions of Cardoza but it is singularly wrong to imply KT has acted in the same way both from intent and action - completely different time scale and completely different financial situation  - the latter, why financial guesswork irritates the hell out of me. You seem very keen to guess and inflate possible personal  income but conveniently avoid the somewhat more significant aspect of expenditure on actually running a football club - I certainly don’t have access to the club’s ongoing P&L and I rather expect you don’t either. Do I believe KT is the clubs messiah? - probably not. Do I think he has handled communication well? - absolutely not but l’m also very aware communication on intention when you don’t have overall control of a situation is very difficult & to please all of the people all of the time when you may have to backtrack is impossible.
(3) What’s the alternative? - yes I know Beds mutters on about local folk with a genuine interest but again they didn’t actually seal the deal when the opportunity arose did they - and superficial research would suggest they are richer than most of us but not to a level to take the club to the next level. It’s so easy to suggest an alternative is much better - you will never be proved wrong if it never happens.
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« Reply #20297 on: November 02, 2017, 13:53:25 pm »

Stop referring to “ local businessmen “ that are in a position to take over the club .
They don’t exist and only can’t to the fore originally as an absolute desperation measure to save us from oblivion .
Times have changed , circumstances have also changed with individuals and things have moved on .
They no longer exist . Stop spouting cr**.
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« Reply #20298 on: November 02, 2017, 13:59:04 pm »

Stop referring to “ local businessmen “ that are in a position to take over the club .
They don’t exist and only can’t to the fore originally as an absolute desperation measure to save us from oblivion .
Times have changed , circumstances have also changed with individuals and things have moved on .
They no longer exist . Stop spouting cr**.


My point entirely - with best will in the world local estate agents and retired MP’s with failed businesses and dubious expense claims are unlikely to be the necessary captains of industry to take us forward
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« Reply #20299 on: November 02, 2017, 14:17:00 pm »

That's at best supposition as at worst libellous, isn't it?

don't think so.

Why are so many of you so quick to jump on any fan who questions the motives of our owner?

KT has clearly said we are not a club worth investing in and STILL gets the majority to support him

Every player sale and inward investment into NTFC or should it be NTFC Ventures is a secret.
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