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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 804484 times)
Dr Feelgood
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« Reply #20860 on: January 24, 2018, 22:35:27 pm »

I saw the BBC article about the 1.1M cash injection but won't believe anything until I see it.
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« Reply #20861 on: January 24, 2018, 22:44:15 pm »

Do you mean Coventry, Luton, Stevenage and MK all below us one way or the other. At least 2 of those Clubs are in precarious position.
League positions can never be taken for granted, therefore all teams must expect fluctuating  fortunes, its what makes the game great.
But having the opportunity to give our club the chance to compete with the likes of Cov luton mk and also posh and oxford both on the pitch and in match day ticket sales/ corperate income and other revenues raised during the week.
Other than little stevenage, I can safely say we lag along  way behind the others which should be rectified as a matter of urgency.
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« Reply #20862 on: January 24, 2018, 23:11:27 pm »

League positions can never be taken for granted, therefore all teams must expect fluctuating  fortunes, its what makes the game great.
But having the opportunity to give our club the chance to compete with the likes of Cov luton mk and also posh and oxford both on the pitch and in match day ticket sales/ corperate income and other revenues raised during the week.
Other than little stevenage, I can safely say we lag along  way behind the others which should be rectified as a matter of urgency.
As supporters we know weíre not going to the Prem or sustain a high league level with the ground as it is, as you say. So the standard of our ground stirs up a fair bit of emotion for us. The trouble is Beds is we ainít owned by supporters. We canít sell the ground out at the moment, so as an investor, chucking millions on raising the capacity is somewhat unattractive. If you have any sort of business accumen you need some sort of plan for a return on investment? In all the arguments youíve made for redevelopment I donít see anything as an investor that would make me part with my money. All I see is lots of clubs with white elephant stadiums. God knows what the motivations were for some of them. I suspect an impending court case will shed some light on some of the perks that may be available to those of a certain disposition? We would need to be regularly selling the ground out before I would even consider investing to the levels you suggest. Donít get me wrong, as a supporter there is nothing I would like more than a stadium to be proud of that offers potential. As an investor not a chance would I do anything until the capacity impacts on revenue, which it currently doesnít.
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« Reply #20863 on: January 24, 2018, 23:16:22 pm »

Apprently there are many reasons why people pay for tickets. Many of the loyal fan base purchase on emotional attachment. Therefore to some extent product quality is irrelevant. If football fans were just people buying a product AFC Wimbledon would not have come back from the dead. At the end of the day someone is thinkng about spending millions on the stand. They are not going to do it on a whim. If it’s done right every option would need to be considered, evaluated and costed whilst keeping in mind what you actually want the development to achieve. If it was your money what would you do? What you wouldn’t do is chuck it up on impulse, I reckon KTs 3 to 4 year anniversary before something starts, if it does at all?

Selective quoting? Thought that you were better than that.  Including the next sentence would have removed your need to write most of that: "If we don't like it enough times then we stop buying it or like the majority of us we keep buying it anyway".
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« Reply #20864 on: January 24, 2018, 23:56:43 pm »

Selective quoting? Thought that you were better than that.  Including the next sentence would have removed your need to write most of that: "If we don't like it enough times then we stop buying it or like the majority of us we keep buying it anyway".
fair point, I wasnít trying to be selective, just trying to keep it short, apologies. To some extent I was sort of trying to re-enforce and elaborate on your view rather than offering an alternative. Apparently not very well either by all accounts?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 00:45:48 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

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« Reply #20865 on: January 25, 2018, 07:51:41 am »

As supporters we know weíre not going to the Prem or sustain a high league level with the ground as it is, as you say. So the standard of our ground stirs up a fair bit of emotion for us. The trouble is Beds is we ainít owned by supporters. We canít sell the ground out at the moment, so as an investor, chucking millions on raising the capacity is somewhat unattractive. If you have any sort of business accumen you need some sort of plan for a return on investment? In all the arguments youíve made for redevelopment I donít see anything as an investor that would make me part with my money. All I see is lots of clubs with white elephant stadiums. God knows what the motivations were for some of them. I suspect an impending court case will shed some light on some of the perks that may be available to those of a certain disposition? We would need to be regularly selling the ground out before I would even consider investing to the levels you suggest. Donít get me wrong, as a supporter there is nothing I would like more than a stadium to be proud of that offers potential. As an investor not a chance would I do anything until the capacity impacts on revenue, which it currently doesnít.
Sixfields as is will only ever average between 80 and 90% capacaity in all league 1 games, buts thats a decent effort in such an tiny archaic ground with 1980s facilities, ie none.
So you cant bash the Northampton public for  filling it to such high capacity.
So expecting the magical 100% sell out game after game, 10 to 20% more to turn up every game to watch a lower league 1 side, sat in the poorest front row seats in rain and wind is just fanciful but conveniently in the past over looked to avoid investment in the infrastructure.
You also used the phrases 'wite elephant stadium' and "premiership football" of which not one person expect or want, so change those  to a modest 12000 capacity stadium   with corperate facilities large supporters bar/ 7 day function room to give a more  sustainable club that can grow its product to one that can challenge in league 1 with some championship dreams and ambitions to give long standing and many newly attracted supporters to a more professional setting, raising expectations  of more than just survival out of league 2.
You do realise any redevelopment can be done in stages and financed by serveral means without the need of the present consortium spending a penny of their own money?  so waiting for our fans to sit in the rain filling the poorest seats in the stadium is not the bench mark for progression.

« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 07:59:36 am by BedsCobb » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #20866 on: January 25, 2018, 08:34:52 am »

League positions can never be taken for granted, therefore all teams must expect fluctuating  fortunes, its what makes the game great.
But having the opportunity to give our club the chance to compete with the likes of Cov luton mk and also posh and oxford both on the pitch and in match day ticket sales/ corperate income and other revenues raised during the week.
Other than little stevenage, I can safely say we lag along  way behind the others which should be rectified as a matter of urgency.

You think we are well behind Coventry?

They are in the league below us.
They have an investment firm as their owner, the fans hate them
They been plummeting down the leagues
The rent on their stadium was so high that they chose to play in our 'conference standard' stadium for a season.
The population of Coventry is approximately 50% bigger than Northampton. Their average league attendance is not.

How exactly are they ahead of us?

you are deluded...
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« Reply #20867 on: January 25, 2018, 09:31:35 am »

League positions can never be taken for granted, therefore all teams must expect fluctuating  fortunes, its what makes the game great.
But having the opportunity to give our club the chance to compete with the likes of Cov luton mk and also posh and oxford both on the pitch and in match day ticket sales/ corperate income and other revenues raised during the week.
Other than little stevenage, I can safely say we lag along  way behind the others which should be rectified as a matter of urgency.

Article from September stating that Cov will be kicked out of the Ricoh ground at the end of this season. Of course the Ricoh is now actually owned by Wasps Rugby.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-city-18-ricoh-games-13674115

Oxford Utd are tenants in their own ground, which is owned by their estranged former chairman. They get very little or none of the matchday revenue associated with the fixtures held there. Negotations to purchase the ground have been going on for years.
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15024914.Oxford_United__could_look_for_a_new_stadium__unless_sale_agreed_soon/

Milton Keynes are effectively a highly successful Doubletree hotel with a football team attached. They are nowhere near well funded enough to sustain Championship to PL football, and the chairman continues to delude himself that the PL is possible. At some point reality will bite.

Luton's new ground at Power Court is stuck in local council rigmarole, and they still don't have planning permission (to my knowledge).
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/sport/football/luton-town/sweet-hopeful-that-frustrating-power-court-delay-will-be-over-soon-1-8230256

Are you seriously telling me that those clubs are better off than NTFC, who have a chairman with a consortium willing to fund the completion of a stand that would otherwise have been left derelict, and all that is holding things up is final lease paperwork from NBC?

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« Reply #20868 on: January 25, 2018, 09:43:26 am »



Are you seriously telling me that those clubs are better off than NTFC, who have a chairman with a consortium willing to fund the completion of a stand that would otherwise have been left derelict, and all that is holding things up is final lease paperwork from NBC?



If recent rumours are to be believed the consortium arenít stumping up the money so KT and his Oxford money man are funding the completion of the East Stand.
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« Reply #20869 on: January 25, 2018, 09:45:32 am »

If recent rumours are to be believed the consortium arenít stumping up the money so KT and his Oxford money man are funding the completion of the East Stand.


Which is fine - but the point is that had they not rocked up and funded it then the stand would be sat there empty with no seats in it, let alone potentially finished.
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« Reply #20870 on: January 25, 2018, 10:46:42 am »

Sixfields as is will only ever average between 80 and 90% capacaity in all league 1 games, buts thats a decent effort in such an tiny archaic ground with 1980s facilities, ie none.
So you cant bash the Northampton public for  filling it to such high capacity.
So expecting the magical 100% sell out game after game, 10 to 20% more to turn up every game to watch a lower league 1 side, sat in the poorest front row seats in rain and wind is just fanciful but conveniently in the past over looked to avoid investment in the infrastructure.
You also used the phrases 'wite elephant stadium' and "premiership football" of which not one person expect or want, so change those  to a modest 12000 capacity stadium   with corperate facilities large supporters bar/ 7 day function room to give a more  sustainable club that can grow its product to one that can challenge in league 1 with some championship dreams and ambitions to give long standing and many newly attracted supporters to a more professional setting, raising expectations  of more than just survival out of league 2.
You do realise any redevelopment can be done in stages and financed by serveral means without the need of the present consortium spending a penny of their own money?  so waiting for our fans to sit in the rain filling the poorest seats in the stadium is not the bench mark for progression.


Firstly I donít think anyone would expect it to sell out game in and game out. However, fairly regularly would be a reasonable motivation to invest, but it doesnít. Secondly where do you get this 80-90% from? The figures Iíve seen for 2016-2017 have our average gate at 6218 and our capacity at 7798 thatís about just less than 80 so forget bringing 90% into it. It only sold out once against Man U (no surprise there) with about 3 others being a few hundred short. Finally where do you get bashing the Northampton public from. I am just looking at it from an investment point of view? You appear to do all your thinking with your heart which whilst admirable doesnít align with most investors who will think with their head. Therefore I think the dream ground we would all like to see will in all probability remain a dream. I hope Iím wrong Beds I really do, as long as the club doesnít pin its future on a big stadium and then fail on the back of it?
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« Reply #20871 on: January 25, 2018, 11:22:10 am »

Sixfields as is will only ever average between 80 and 90% capacaity in all league 1 games, buts thats a decent effort in such an tiny archaic ground with 1980s facilities, ie none.
So you cant bash the Northampton public for  filling it to such high capacity.
So expecting the magical 100% sell out game after game, 10 to 20% more to turn up every game to watch a lower league 1 side, sat in the poorest front row seats in rain and wind is just fanciful but conveniently in the past over looked to avoid investment in the infrastructure.
You also used the phrases 'wite elephant stadium' and "premiership football" of which not one person expect or want, so change those  to a modest 12000 capacity stadium   with corperate facilities large supporters bar/ 7 day function room to give a more  sustainable club that can grow its product to one that can challenge in league 1 with some championship dreams and ambitions to give long standing and many newly attracted supporters to a more professional setting, raising expectations  of more than just survival out of league 2.
You do realise any redevelopment can be done in stages and financed by several means without the need of the present consortium spending a penny of their own money?  so waiting for our fans to sit in the rain filling the poorest seats in the stadium is not the bench mark for progression.



I suggest that you should have a rest from this thread and also from mentioning about the Redevelopment on any other thread.
You just keep repeating yourself; achieving the square root of nothing in the process, aside from boring the pants off everyone else.  
Must be boring for you as well or is this your only gateway to the outside world?
You have been invited to email KT, some have emailed and received a response immediately whilst you continue to refuse.  Is that because in your banal world of Redevelopment that you like to spout off about doesn't like dealing in facts?

Come back when the Redevelopment actually starts, then you can give us a running commentary on how well the club are doing (or not as the case may be) using your vast experience of these things.
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Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
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« Reply #20872 on: January 25, 2018, 12:56:19 pm »

You think we are well behind Coventry?

They are in the league below us.
They have an investment firm as their owner, the fans hate them
They been plummeting down the leagues
The rent on their stadium was so high that they chose to play in our 'conference standard' stadium for a season.
The population of Coventry is approximately 50% bigger than Northampton. Their average league attendance is not.

How exactly are they ahead of us?

you are deluded...
4
I deliberately left Cov city in the mix to see how quick it would be jumped on by those who see others failures as a reason for us to continue or stagnation.
 As we've established league positions and fortunes change and in covs case suffering crap owners but still find themselves in the fa cup 4th rd,  holders of the checkatrade trophy and in the promotion hunt out of league 2, whilst we have a relegation fight to look forward to.
Deluded? No more realistic.
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« Reply #20873 on: January 25, 2018, 12:58:45 pm »

I deliberately left Cov city in the mix to see how quick it would be jumped on by those who see others failures as a reason for us to continue or stagnation.
 As we've established league positions and fortunes change and in covs case suffering crap owners but still find themselves in the fa cup 4th rd,  holders of the checkatrade trophy and in the promotion hunt out of league 2, whilst we have a relegation fight to look forward to.Deluded? No more realistic.
I still wouldn't swap our last 5 years with theirs
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« Reply #20874 on: January 25, 2018, 13:26:53 pm »

Article from September stating that Cov will be kicked out of the Ricoh ground at the end of this season. Of course the Ricoh is now actually owned by Wasps Rugby.
https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-city-18-ricoh-games-13674115

Oxford Utd are tenants in their own ground, which is owned by their estranged former chairman. They get very little or none of the matchday revenue associated with the fixtures held there. Negotations to purchase the ground have been going on for years.
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15024914.Oxford_United__could_look_for_a_new_stadium__unless_sale_agreed_soon/

Milton Keynes are effectively a highly successful Doubletree hotel with a football team attached. They are nowhere near well funded enough to sustain Championship to PL football, and the chairman continues to delude himself that the PL is possible. At some point reality will bite.

Luton's new ground at Power Court is stuck in local council rigmarole, and they still don't have planning permission (to my knowledge).
https://www.lutontoday.co.uk/sport/football/luton-town/sweet-hopeful-that-frustrating-power-court-delay-will-be-over-soon-1-8230256

Are you seriously telling me that those clubs are better off than NTFC, who have a chairman with a consortium willing to fund the completion of a stand that would otherwise have been left derelict, and all that is holding things up is final lease paperwork from NBC?


If the best we can hope for is 10 boxes fitted into the east stand and nothing else, then  yes we are way worse off.
If these clubs mentioned were to kept in a tiny ground for the next  20 years, I would agree but they're not so highlighting some previous/ current  problems that will get sorted  is not a reason we should give thanks and continue  rotting in a tiny unfit ground as you're suggesting we should do.

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« Reply #20875 on: January 25, 2018, 13:31:54 pm »

Which is fine - but the point is that had they not rocked up and funded it then the stand would be sat there empty with no seats in it, let alone potentially finished.
those seats paid for themselves after just 2 games and it still took 3 months of the football season to put them back in.
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« Reply #20876 on: January 25, 2018, 13:43:40 pm »

Firstly I donít think anyone would expect it to sell out game in and game out. However, fairly regularly would be a reasonable motivation to invest, but it doesnít. Secondly where do you get this 80-90% from? The figures Iíve seen for 2016-2017 have our average gate at 6218 and our capacity at 7798 thatís about just less than 80 so forget bringing 90% into it. It only sold out once against Man U (no surprise there) with about 3 others being a few hundred short. Finally where do you get bashing the Northampton public from. I am just looking at it from an investment point of view? You appear to do all your thinking with your heart which whilst admirable doesnít align with most investors who will think with their head. Therefore I think the dream ground we would all like to see will in all probability remain a dream. I hope Iím wrong Beds I really do, as long as the club doesnít pin its future on a big stadium and then fail on the back of it?
nit picking eh😂 not taking into account our awful recent run of poor home results?
Are you suggesting 12000 capacity to be a big ground?
Why do you think less people would visit a more professional atmospheric stadium with better supporters facilities? Surely a good reason for many more to visit.
All figures relating to the current Sixfields have to be taken into context..its an embarrassment to our town.
Even for a selfish perspective, who would prefer a decent stadium to spend their Saturday/tuesday evenings at.
If thats nearly everyone, then something needs to be done.
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« Reply #20877 on: January 25, 2018, 13:44:41 pm »

those seats paid for themselves after just 2 games and it still took 3 months of the football season to put them back in.


It's highly unlikely they paid for themselves after 2 games. There are a huge number of factors aside from the direct cost of a physical seat to take into account, which you've evidentially chosen to ignore. Planning, Installation, extra staffing of the seats, any permits or approvals that are needed.

Thats before the extremely simple fact that not everyone going into the new seats is a new customer or a customer that would otherwise not have attended, they very possibly could have been attending in other stands.

Another number just pulled out your backside, and you wonder why people don't take you seriously.
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« Reply #20878 on: January 25, 2018, 13:48:01 pm »

I suggest that you should have a rest from this thread and also from mentioning about the Redevelopment on any other thread.
You just keep repeating yourself; achieving the square root of nothing in the process, aside from boring the pants off everyone else.  
Must be boring for you as well or is this your only gateway to the outside world?
You have been invited to email KT, some have emailed and received a response immediately whilst you continue to refuse.  Is that because in your banal world of Redevelopment that you like to spout off about doesn't like dealing in facts?

Come back when the Redevelopment actually starts, then you can give us a running commentary on how well the club are doing (or not as the case may be) using your vast experience of these things.
You do know all posts are replies to perfectly valid questions😉
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« Reply #20879 on: January 25, 2018, 13:52:12 pm »

If the best we can hope for is 10 boxes fitted into the east stand and nothing else, then  yes we are way worse off.
If these clubs mentioned were to kept in a tiny ground for the next  20 years, I would agree but they're not so highlighting some previous/ current  problems that will get sorted  is not a reason we should give thanks and continue  rotting in a tiny unfit ground as you're suggesting we should do.

Wait, so all those clubs will definitely overcome "some previous/ current  problems" but we will make zero progress with development? You present this like it is an indisputable fact.
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