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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 882931 times)
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« Reply #21040 on: March 02, 2018, 21:08:04 pm »

incorrect, 7700 capacity  tops so lets agree on only 600 more able to attend higher profile games hence why we're unable to do sales and promotions other than a little token gesturing.
You’ll like this Beds, an article written in 2017 in the Telegraph detailing what has happened to every club who has moved ground since 1988. There are over 30 examples including us. People can make up their own minds regarding how likely redevelopment is to bring success and/or move the club forward as you claim. Bare in mind it is this kind of information you would need to address to secure any finance and attract investors. Given that you are so critical and vocal regarding the current owners on this subject with statements like “killing the club” I think it reasonable that you at least make a decent case for identifying how they would raise the capital? So far virtually all your posts are based on opinion, which is fine but doesn’t solve the major flaw with your proposals. I have tried to get you to engage in this by asking you to address 1 specific (and in fairness most extreme) example, which up till now you have declined to fully do. May I suggest you have a try at using facts and see how you get on? Also in fairness to you it’s not cut and dried and there are varying results in here, some disastrous, others not so, but this exercise is about the theory behind my argument regarding the difficulty in convincing financial institutions that redevelopment is a sound and attractive opportunity post financial crisis? In conclusion can I also ask how likely you would be to remortgage your house and buy shares in the club based on your findings should the opportunity present itself, because that is what you are probably asking others to do? (And incidentally what the council should have asked the Cardozas to do in terms of security)?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/0/happens-next-team-moves-stadium-every-new-ground-since-1988/new-york-stadium/
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« Reply #21041 on: March 03, 2018, 00:21:25 am »

You’ll like this Beds, an article written in 2017 in the Telegraph detailing what has happened to every club who has moved ground since 1988. There are over 30 examples including us. People can make up their own minds regarding how likely redevelopment is to bring success and/or move the club forward as you claim. Bare in mind it is this kind of information you would need to address to secure any finance and attract investors. Given that you are so critical and vocal regarding the current owners on this subject with statements like “killing the club” I think it reasonable that you at least make a decent case for identifying how they would raise the capital? So far virtually all your posts are based on opinion, which is fine but doesn’t solve the major flaw with your proposals. I have tried to get you to engage in this by asking you to address 1 specific (and in fairness most extreme) example, which up till now you have declined to fully do. May I suggest you have a try at using facts and see how you get on? Also in fairness to you it’s not cut and dried and there are varying results in here, some disastrous, others not so, but this exercise is about the theory behind my argument regarding the difficulty in convincing financial institutions that redevelopment is a sound and attractive opportunity post financial crisis? In conclusion can I also ask how likely you would be to remortgage your house and buy shares in the club based on your findings should the opportunity present itself, because that is what you are probably asking others to do? (And incidentally what the council should have asked the Cardozas to do in terms of security)?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/0/happens-next-team-moves-stadium-every-new-ground-since-1988/new-york-stadium/
Firstly we dont need another new ground but greatly improve what we have as its unfit for purpose.
I have long come to the opinion Thomas and co wont be putting in a single penny but hope to make lots of money from selling the land they so badly need the council to give them in order to drop a few crumbs in the clubs coffers as the run to the hills...Yes worst case scenario but until he makes it clear as to why they are actully  here I reserve the right to assume the worse.
Again to have a modicum of sustainable investment in building up the ground to an acceptable state to increase the clubs revenues  can be acheivable in a number of ways which can be by using future incomes, naming rights, many different forms of sponsorship and the old getting investors on board that will actually invest, be they british chinese or any other place but willing investment parties.
All clubs need to build its infrastructure  to allow them to maximise gate and match day food and beverage takings as well as corperate boxes and general match day sponsorship revenues.
Even you have to agree Northampton town in its current state is a long way from what you would realistically call its maximum potential,  I would say we are currently only running at a third of what we could be due to being held back over the past 14 years and its this reason our club is struggling  to compete and stay in league 1 as we just aren't equipped to survive.

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« Reply #21042 on: March 03, 2018, 02:15:45 am »

Firstly we dont need another new ground but greatly improve what we have as its unfit for purpose.
I have long come to the opinion Thomas and co wont be putting in a single penny but hope to make lots of money from selling the land they so badly need the council to give them in order to drop a few crumbs in the clubs coffers as the run to the hills...Yes worst case scenario but until he makes it clear as to why they are actully  here I reserve the right to assume the worse.
Again to have a modicum of sustainable investment in building up the ground to an acceptable state to increase the clubs revenues  can be acheivable in a number of ways which can be by using future incomes, naming rights, many different forms of sponsorship and the old getting investors on board that will actually invest, be they british chinese or any other place but willing investment parties.
All clubs need to build its infrastructure  to allow them to maximise gate and match day food and beverage takings as well as corperate boxes and general match day sponsorship revenues.
Even you have to agree Northampton town in its current state is a long way from what you would realistically call its maximum potential,  I would say we are currently only running at a third of what we could be due to being held back over the past 14 years and its this reason our club is struggling  to compete and stay in league 1 as we just aren't equipped to survive.


Sorry Beds, this debate is proving to be a waste of time. Whilst rhetoric and opinion might fulfill its purpose for you on here, and nothing wrong with that by the way, it is just nonsense. Whether you build a stand or build a stadium it all requires finance and you haven’t come up with a single justification for it other than your opinion that it’s the right thing to do? The risk, as the list shows is that like Chester and Darlington you go out of business if you get it wrong? Despite this you continue on and on like a child in a toy shop with no thought, appreciation or care with regards to affordability. The issue I have with all this is that whatever you think of his motives, KT rescued the club from oblivion. Despite this you continually criticise the guy and use phrases like “killing the club”. Again as a supporter nothing really wrong with that, except every time you are given an honest question you haven’t even got the decency to justify your accusations against KT, continually evading giving a straight answer and continue on and on with the same delusional rehtoric like some sort of demented buffoon. The only thing you have proven is that your opinion on this subject is, in my opinion, baseless, irrelevant and childlike, sorry.
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« Reply #21043 on: March 03, 2018, 08:50:00 am »

Sorry Beds, this debate is proving to be a waste of time. Whilst rhetoric and opinion might fulfill its purpose for you on here, and nothing wrong with that by the way, it is just nonsense. Whether you build a stand or build a stadium it all requires finance and you haven’t come up with a single justification for it other than your opinion that it’s the right thing to do? The risk, as the list shows is that like Chester and Darlington you go out of business if you get it wrong? Despite this you continue on and on like a child in a toy shop with no thought, appreciation or care with regards to affordability. The issue I have with all this is that whatever you think of his motives, KT rescued the club from oblivion. Despite this you continually criticise the guy and use phrases like “killing the club”. Again as a supporter nothing really wrong with that, except every time you are given an honest question you haven’t even got the decency to justify your accusations against KT, continually evading giving a straight answer and continue on and on with the same delusional rehtoric like some sort of demented buffoon. The only thing you have proven is that your opinion on this subject is, in my opinion, baseless, irrelevant and childlike, sorry.

And it's taken you 1053 pages to come to that conclusion  Grin
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« Reply #21044 on: March 03, 2018, 08:50:16 am »

Sorry Beds, this debate is proving to be a waste of time. Whilst rhetoric and opinion might fulfill its purpose for you on here, and nothing wrong with that by the way, it is just nonsense. Whether you build a stand or build a stadium it all requires finance and you haven’t come up with a single justification for it other than your opinion that it’s the right thing to do? The risk, as the list shows is that like Chester and Darlington you go out of business if you get it wrong? Despite this you continue on and on like a child in a toy shop with no thought, appreciation or care with regards to affordability. The issue I have with all this is that whatever you think of his motives, KT rescued the club from oblivion. Despite this you continually criticise the guy and use phrases like “killing the club”. Again as a supporter nothing really wrong with that, except every time you are given an honest question you haven’t even got the decency to justify your accusations against KT, continually evading giving a straight answer and continue on and on with the same delusional rehtoric like some sort of demented buffoon. The only thing you have proven is that your opinion on this subject is, in my opinion, baseless, irrelevant and childlike, sorry.
Apology accepted, Ive been called far worse on this emotive subject by both those who had vast unconditional loyalty  for David/ Tony Cardoza who also saved us from this awful  'oblivion' fate by paying a little bit of tax and a few weeks back pay to take control,  and now by those like you who show great affection and loyalty to the latest incombents to the point you could actully be one of them or a family member which if the case is honourable imo.
And heres the but.. I am a Northamptonian who wants the very best for my club NTFC but all I see is people making a case for our ambition to be that of a struggling 4th division  club that spends the odd season being out classed in league 1.
For me thats just not enough I want us to be a challenging league 1 club with the odd season in the championship which is why we need better infrastructure to attract better players,  more supporters and sponsors etc to achieve it.
Anyone who makes the claim to build a winning team with excellent individual players at Sixfields in its current poor state must also realise we  will 100% lose those players after several months for a fraction of their worth to teams we should be competing against, and the merry go round, goes around again.
Melbourne, I stand by my previous  post as being the only viable  way forward for this club based on the level of investment we can expect from this latest lot which after 2.5 years of waiting NBC to again hand over unconditional  riches to a passing consortium, I hope they are kept waiting until we have as a club have  some assurance that what we get is more than a few crumbs.
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« Reply #21045 on: March 03, 2018, 09:38:38 am »

Am I the only one that has heard its not going to happen , too much legal crap to sift through to make it viable
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« Reply #21046 on: March 03, 2018, 09:40:38 am »

Didn't someone borrow some money from somebody else in mid January, to be paid back by the end of that month.
Anyone know what happened?
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« Reply #21047 on: March 03, 2018, 09:45:26 am »

Chinese? What Chinese?

Charge still registered by KT & DB over, in effect, their own shares. Make sense of that if you can.
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« Reply #21048 on: March 03, 2018, 10:49:50 am »

Apology accepted, Ive been called far worse on this emotive subject by both those who had vast unconditional loyalty  for David/ Tony Cardoza who also saved us from this awful  'oblivion' fate by paying a little bit of tax and a few weeks back pay to take control,  and now by those like you who show great affection and loyalty to the latest incombents to the point you could actully be one of them or a family member which if the case is honourable imo.
And heres the but.. I am a Northamptonian who wants the very best for my club NTFC but all I see is people making a case for our ambition to be that of a struggling 4th division  club that spends the odd season being out classed in league 1.
For me thats just not enough I want us to be a challenging league 1 club with the odd season in the championship which is why we need better infrastructure to attract better players,  more supporters and sponsors etc to achieve it.
Anyone who makes the claim to build a winning team with excellent individual players at Sixfields in its current poor state must also realise we  will 100% lose those players after several months for a fraction of their worth to teams we should be competing against, and the merry go round, goes around again.
Melbourne, I stand by my previous  post as being the only viable  way forward for this club based on the level of investment we can expect from this latest lot which after 2.5 years of waiting NBC to again hand over unconditional  riches to a passing consortium, I hope they are kept waiting until we have as a club have  some assurance that what we get is more than a few crumbs.

Again what’s the pitch to attract millions in investment?
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« Reply #21049 on: March 03, 2018, 11:03:02 am »

Apology accepted, Ive been called far worse on this emotive subject by both those who had vast unconditional loyalty  for David/ Tony Cardoza who also saved us from this awful  'oblivion' fate by paying a little bit of tax and a few weeks back pay to take control,  and now by those like you who show great affection and loyalty to the latest incombents to the point you could actully be one of them or a family member which if the case is honourable imo.
And heres the but.. I am a Northamptonian who wants the very best for my club NTFC but all I see is people making a case for our ambition to be that of a struggling 4th division  club that spends the odd season being out classed in league 1.
For me thats just not enough I want us to be a challenging league 1 club with the odd season in the championship which is why we need better infrastructure to attract better players,  more supporters and sponsors etc to achieve it.
Anyone who makes the claim to build a winning team with excellent individual players at Sixfields in its current poor state must also realise we  will 100% lose those players after several months for a fraction of their worth to teams we should be competing against, and the merry go round, goes around again.
Melbourne, I stand by my previous  post as being the only viable  way forward for this club based on the level of investment we can expect from this latest lot which after 2.5 years of waiting NBC to again hand over unconditional  riches to a passing consortium, I hope they are kept waiting until we have as a club have  some assurance that what we get is more than a few crumbs.


But would YOU remortgage YOUR home to finance it?
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« Reply #21050 on: March 03, 2018, 11:55:02 am »

Am I the only one that has heard its not going to happen , too much legal crap to sift through to make it viable

I thought all the legal stuff was close to being sorted out, just waiting for the Council's cabinet meeting. They have told the trust recently that all will be sorted by the end of March, at the latest.
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« Reply #21051 on: March 03, 2018, 12:30:32 pm »

But would YOU remortgage YOUR home to finance it?
No one needs to remortgage anything or even dig in their own pockets should they not wish too.
Sell future seasons ticket in a debentures style where if you buy 3 or more years you get those tickets at good rate, free of inflation so giving great value to holders if this was taken up by just 1200 fans taking advantage and you have your 12 boxes, resturant and large supporters bar.
The future shortfalls will be lost by a major sales campaign attracting fans to  what will be a proper must visit stadium.

Then you have 12 corperate boxes to sell and again you sell 3 season packages giving again holders a great deal so theres your first £300,000 towards building up the grounds pathetic capacity.

Naming rights is the way too go, ie, Sixfields Bettingco.net staduim, 10 years high profile exposure on every tv channel   and press everywhere has got to be worth £500,000.
Maybe a long shot but the premier league do football stadia funding up to £750k so if they can be tapped up for another 500k you now have your 1st bank of 3000 conventional safe standing atmospheric terracing for our more vocal fans.
Theres literally another dozen ways to gain the finances needed for some steady sustainable growth without putting our heads in a noose.
From whats just been posted about free nbc land  now not happening and the Chinese are here to work with our main sponsors NU and not going to be putting in vast sums into football, thats fine not a problem but it just means we now need to protect everyone's interests and getting a trust member on the board to allow the clubs supporters to work closely with all parties to not allow the club to further stagnate and return crashing back to the bottom tier.
At this time divisions must be avoided.
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« Reply #21052 on: March 03, 2018, 12:44:28 pm »

Steer me in the right direction Beds but where has anyone said the Chinese (invisible I know) are here for the university?  How much have they invested in the Uni? When replying please bear in mind that the official record of Northampton Town Ventures Ltd, the holding company fr NTFC, does not show any Chinese ownership or control.  Very strange given the public announcements by KT and very questionable.
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« Reply #21053 on: March 03, 2018, 12:49:36 pm »

Chinese? What Chinese?

Charge still registered by KT & DB over, in effect, their own shares. Make sense of that if you can.
This is like the elephant in the room, what is that all about, all very odd and unconventional.
The trust were given an insight into what is planned, if there is no news by the end of March they should reveal what's been said.
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« Reply #21054 on: March 03, 2018, 13:23:51 pm »

No one needs to remortgage anything or even dig in their own pockets should they not wish too.
Sell future seasons ticket in a debentures style where if you buy 3 or more years you get those tickets at good rate, free of inflation so giving great value to holders if this was taken up by just 1200 fans taking advantage and you have your 12 boxes, resturant and large supporters bar.
The future shortfalls will be lost by a major sales campaign attracting fans to  what will be a proper must visit stadium.

Then you have 12 corperate boxes to sell and again you sell 3 season packages giving again holders a great deal so theres your first £300,000 towards building up the grounds pathetic capacity.

Naming rights is the way too go, ie, Sixfields Bettingco.net staduim, 10 years high profile exposure on every tv channel   and press everywhere has got to be worth £500,000.
Maybe a long shot but the premier league do football stadia funding up to £750k so if they can be tapped up for another 500k you now have your 1st bank of 3000 conventional safe standing atmospheric terracing for our more vocal fans.
Theres literally another dozen ways to gain the finances needed for some steady sustainable growth without putting our heads in a noose.
From whats just been posted about free nbc land  now not happening and the Chinese are here to work with our main sponsors NU and not going to be putting in vast sums into football, thats fine not a problem but it just means we now need to protect everyone's interests and getting a trust member on the board to allow the clubs supporters to work closely with all parties to not allow the club to further stagnate and return crashing back to the bottom tier.
At this time divisions must be avoided.

You are on a different planet.
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« Reply #21055 on: March 03, 2018, 13:54:42 pm »

No one needs to remortgage anything or even dig in their own pockets should they not wish too.
Sell future seasons ticket in a debentures style where if you buy 3 or more years you get those tickets at good rate, free of inflation so giving great value to holders if this was taken up by just 1200 fans taking advantage and you have your 12 boxes, resturant and large supporters bar.
The future shortfalls will be lost by a major sales campaign attracting fans to  what will be a proper must visit stadium.

Then you have 12 corperate boxes to sell and again you sell 3 season packages giving again holders a great deal so theres your first £300,000 towards building up the grounds pathetic capacity.

Naming rights is the way too go, ie, Sixfields Bettingco.net staduim, 10 years high profile exposure on every tv channel   and press everywhere has got to be worth £500,000.
Maybe a long shot but the premier league do football stadia funding up to £750k so if they can be tapped up for another 500k you now have your 1st bank of 3000 conventional safe standing atmospheric terracing for our more vocal fans.
Theres literally another dozen ways to gain the finances needed for some steady sustainable growth without putting our heads in a noose.
From whats just been posted about free nbc land  now not happening and the Chinese are here to work with our main sponsors NU and not going to be putting in vast sums into football, thats fine not a problem but it just means we now need to protect everyone's interests and getting a trust member on the board to allow the clubs supporters to work closely with all parties to not allow the club to further stagnate and return crashing back to the bottom tier.
At this time divisions must be avoided.
Well, it’s been nice chatting with you but I must be on my way, mind how you go.
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« Reply #21056 on: March 03, 2018, 14:24:39 pm »

You are on a different planet.

Yep. He's had why this won't work explained to him numerous times over the course of this thread but it seems to go on one ear and out the other with very little resistance along the way.

They say it's the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome, so being relatively sane I'm not going to bother trying to explain it again.
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« Reply #21057 on: March 03, 2018, 14:33:31 pm »

Yep. He's had why this won't work explained to him numerous times over the course of this thread but it seems to go on one ear and out the other with very little resistance along the way.

They say it's the definition of insanity to keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome, so being relatively sane I'm not going to bother trying to explain it again.
How about doing something pro active and helping Beds with his business plan? You could set up a weekly pre match shove ha’penny competition behind the east stand at a pound entrance fee. That should bring in about £15 less prize money. Or how about building a dry ski run down the middle of the west stand. We could have Frank in his lederhosen yodeling as the punters slalom past the directors box at £2 a time. Who knows if things go our way this time next year we will be able to buy the builder his high vis vest?
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« Reply #21058 on: March 03, 2018, 15:45:02 pm »

How about doing something pro active and helping Beds with his business plan? You could set up a weekly pre match shove ha’penny competition behind the east stand at a pound entrance fee. That should bring in about £15 less prize money. Or how about building a dry ski run down the middle of the west stand. We could have Frank in his lederhosen yodeling as the punters slalom past the directors box at £2 a time. Who knows if things go our way this time next year we will be able to buy the builder his high vis vest?
Desperate to show you've  not been rattled you start throwing in what you constitute as humour? Ski slope in west stand and lederhosen..stop it now my sides hurt...
I thought you were bowing out of this tread?
Send my regards to Thomas when you face time him next😗 😂😂
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« Reply #21059 on: March 03, 2018, 15:51:37 pm »

Am I the only one that has heard its not going to happen , too much legal crap to sift through to make it viable

No...you're not the only one!!
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