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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1820417 times)
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meccanostand
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« Reply #21400 on: April 18, 2018, 06:36:29 am »

Barren land bit of an exaggeration but would it be impossible to do a new build closer to the Town Centre? I don't believe so.

That's a bit of a side point however.

The key points are Thomas/Bowers plans. What are they? Do they involve a wider development? Is that development best for the club and the town if it exists? Is it possible to improve club infrastructure outside of the board's business plan?
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #21401 on: April 18, 2018, 06:37:56 am »

Drilling, I have tried in vain to get some to grasp this concept for a while. When everyone talks of investment what they have to realise is that when you suggest this you are immediately in competition with every other investment opportunity including those outside football. The biggest investment groups outside of the banks in the UK are the pension and investment funds. All of these invest in a spread of investments to negate the risk so have multiple investments across their portfolios. I challenge anyone on here to find an investment fund with a financial interest in any club outside of the PLCs. The reason is the ROI is too small, too long and crucially too risky.
Investors in the true sense are in it for the money end of story and no investors other than those off their fcking trolley are going to invest in NTFC. The only hope is individual ownership such as KT but with the cash to bankroll it as a hobby. Others have used councils etc for the vague justification of community benefit, but we can safely assume that’s out. The club doesn’t have any assets, so unless the mystery benefactor is found we are fcked.
The time for this to happen was when Sixfields was built in the first place (let’s be honest, what a disappointment it was from day one), or when the Cardozas managed to convince the council to part with cash. Both opportunities have been and gone and that’s pretty much it. The absolute b0llocks I read about sustainable growth and hard sell are just plain nonsense. Those writing this bullsh1t obviously have no concept of the figures involved because they are eye watering. Assume you need 10 million? The average very successful company has a profit of around 15 - 20%. To generate 10 million to invest in a year you would need to turnover around 60 million once corporation tax is taken into account and then blow the whole lot on the club? FFS get a grip, it ain’t ever going to happen. Unless we get a mystery benefactor willing to blow his wad we are screwed.
Like everyone else I would love a great ground, but we can do all the crying out we like, it ain’t happening so get over it. For those in doubt write a business plan, send it to every fund manager listed in the FT and see how far you get? If it’s as attractive as some would have you believe then they will be falling over themselves on the way to KTs door? It would be more pro active than living in fantasy land writing endless b0llocks on here? Don’t fcking hold your breath though. The only slight chance we have is success on the pitch. I’m sorry in some peoples eyes that makes me and those like minded only “so called supporters that are killing the club” but don’t shoot the messenger.
As a side note I will help some out with the calculation. Suppose we had 6,000 season ticket holders at £380 a pop. That’s 2.3 million. Assume you could double that by adding a bigger crowd plus renting parts of the ground for other use etc? If you were able to generate 20% profit which would be good going that’s £750,000 profit a year after tax. That’s 13 years before you get your money back on £10 million. At 40% which is frankly for a football club in the realms of mentally delusional it’s 7 and a half years. Remember that’s if you double the income on 6000 season ticket holders, get the picture? Attract investors my arse, some on here must be on drugs?
You do tend to look at things in a very black and white way with only one eye open.
You do need to look at a football club as a completly different entity to any other business especially one that is central to a town and county of 750,000 inhabitants.
One that hasn't seen proper investment for decades and therefore ripe for the picking.
It does need initial  investment but has enough going for it to repay and maintain a level sustainability.

If we were to sell 12 corperate  boxes in advance for 5 year periods at discount, that would pay for the fit out, it would immediately get all the big hitters on board to further sponsorship.
Exclusive ground naming rights by one of the big betting, insurance or comparison websites companies etc for 10 years is 500k then sell advance season tickets at frozen prices another 750k thats an instant 3000 capacity increase.. It really is that easy when you have a vast catchment in a great location and theres dozens of other ways to raise funds.
Thomas and co are only interested in a short term projected to get the land leases, the football club isnt being invested in but just sold on for profit, so yes football investment for a small group isnt really viable but when driven by the whole community of supporters and businesses of a town and county our size, it becomes very viable.



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« Reply #21402 on: April 18, 2018, 06:39:14 am »

But why on earth would you want to build a new ground closer to the town centre? I simply don't follow the rationale.
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« Reply #21403 on: April 18, 2018, 07:58:17 am »

You do tend to look at things in a very black and white way with only one eye open.
You do need to look at a football club as a completly different entity to any other business especially one that is central to a town and county of 750,000 inhabitants.
One that hasn't seen proper investment for decades and therefore ripe for the picking.
It does need initial  investment but has enough going for it to repay and maintain a level sustainability.

If we were to sell 12 corperate  boxes in advance for 5 year periods at discount, that would pay for the fit out, it would immediately get all the big hitters on board to further sponsorship.
Exclusive ground naming rights by one of the big betting, insurance or comparison websites companies etc for 10 years is 500k then sell advance season tickets at frozen prices another 750k thats an instant 3000 capacity increase.. It really is that easy when you have a vast catchment in a great location and theres dozens of other ways to raise funds.
Thomas and co are only interested in a short term projected to get the land leases, the football club isnt being invested in but just sold on for profit, so yes football investment for a small group isnt really viable but when driven by the whole community of supporters and businesses of a town and county our size, it becomes very viable.

That’s the point Beds, securing investment is black and white with absolutely no grey areas. How do imagine the Cardozas were able to make a convincing argument for using the council for the money last time around? Whether it’s KT or anyone else the scenario will be the same unless they have cash on the hip? I’ve given you the figures, exactly how much do you think it will be necessary to raise to achieve the aims you suggest, and based on 20% profit what’s the ROI? No more generalisation, what are you suggesting is realistic and achievable to make this a viable option as you claim?
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« Reply #21404 on: April 18, 2018, 09:51:47 am »

That’s the point Beds, securing investment is black and white with absolutely no grey areas. How do imagine the Cardozas were able to make a convincing argument for using the council for the money last time around? Whether it’s KT or anyone else the scenario will be the same unless they have cash on the hip? I’ve given you the figures, exactly how much do you think it will be necessary to raise to achieve the aims you suggest, and based on 20% profit what’s the ROI? No more generalisation, what are you suggesting is realistic and achievable to make this a viable option as you claim?
By the way, a corporate box at Peterborough is 11k a season. X 12 boxes x 5 years is £660k assume a 10% discount £600k? Being generous assume 25% operating profit that’s £150k for all 12 boxes. What sort of quality of fit out are you actually proposing this £12,500k per box will pay for to get someone to stump up £50k + Vat  in advance for?
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« Reply #21405 on: April 18, 2018, 09:53:31 am »

That’s the point Beds, securing investment is black and white with absolutely no grey areas. How do imagine the Cardozas were able to make a convincing argument for using the council for the money last time around? Whether it’s KT or anyone else the scenario will be the same unless they have cash on the hip? I’ve given you the figures, exactly how much do you think it will be necessary to raise to achieve the aims you suggest, and based on 20% profit what’s the ROI? No more generalisation, what are you suggesting is realistic and achievable to make this a viable option as you claim?
Firstly these are not my suggestions but very much tried and tested ways of funding redevelopments in a sustainable way by giving those who buy into it great value and not having to rely on those we wrongly put our trust in to help the club grow.
I doubt very much Thomas would oversee such a project as this but hopefully he sells up to a more open minded chairman who gets this moving in the right way without needing to wholey rely on the nbc or the land it owns.

We really dont need any big time investors just one to oversee the building of our club gradually with our vast catchment getting involved from day 1.
A real community club at the heart of the town and county.
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« Reply #21406 on: April 18, 2018, 09:55:48 am »


If we were to sell 12 corperate  boxes in advance for 5 year periods at discount, that would pay for the fit out, it would immediately get all the big hitters on board to further sponsorship.
Exclusive ground naming rights by one of the big betting, insurance or comparison websites companies etc for 10 years is 500k then sell advance season tickets at frozen prices another 750k thats an instant 3000 capacity increase.. It really is that easy when you have a vast catchment in a great location and theres dozens of other ways to raise funds.


Yep, let's raise loads of capital upfront, spunk the lot on infrastructure and then spend the next few years watching players we've picked up off the park who'll play for free, just for the opportunity to play in such a lovely ground.
Maybe we could keep some off the builders buckets when they are done with them for the weekly collections we'll need to cover running costs...
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« Reply #21407 on: April 18, 2018, 09:58:49 am »

Firstly these are not my suggestions but very much tried and tested ways of funding redevelopments in a sustainable way by giving those who buy into it great value and not having to rely on those we wrongly put our trust in to help the club grow.
I doubt very much Thomas would oversee such a project as this but hopefully he sells up to a more open minded chairman who gets this moving in the right way without needing to wholey rely on the nbc or the land it owns.

We really dont need any big time investors just one to oversee the building of our club gradually with our vast catchment getting involved from day 1.
A real community club at the heart of the town and county.
It’s a simple question, how much over how long? You quote the figures I’ll do the sums?
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« Reply #21408 on: April 18, 2018, 10:11:27 am »

It’s a simple question, how much over how long? You quote the figures I’ll do the sums?
enough to get things moving and over as long as it takes to give our club what it requires which will be many times quicker than waiting for land speculators to fill their boots.
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« Reply #21409 on: April 18, 2018, 10:13:45 am »

Yep, let's raise loads of capital upfront, spunk the lot on infrastructure and then spend the next few years watching players we've picked up off the park who'll play for free, just for the opportunity to play in such a lovely ground.
Maybe we could keep some off the builders buckets when they are done with them for the weekly collections we'll need to cover running costs...

Premier League solidarity payments, gate receipts and improved income streams would take care of a playing budget in League 2 without too much problem. Even Cardoza was making breaking even at points with minimum effort.
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« Reply #21410 on: April 18, 2018, 10:15:49 am »

enough to get things moving and over as long as it takes to give our club what it requires which will be many times quicker than waiting for land speculators to fill their boots.

Figure :

The symbol for a number or an amount expressed in numbers......
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« Reply #21411 on: April 18, 2018, 10:33:32 am »

Yep, let's raise loads of capital upfront, spunk the lot on infrastructure and then spend the next few years watching players we've picked up off the park who'll play for free, just for the opportunity to play in such a lovely ground.
Maybe we could keep some off the builders buckets when they are done with them for the weekly collections we'll need to cover running costs...
The Sixfields of cardozas and Thomas will soon be long erased from the memory and we will see a new era of companies, investors, supporters and the general good wishes of the town and county folk towards a new chairman and co operate at every level to help our club shake off the shackles of the land grabbers and if we by chance retain the boundaries around our ground, it could be put to very good use..
This way we have a better than fighting chance to improve our club beyond all recognition.
The alternative is... there isnt one😉
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« Reply #21412 on: April 18, 2018, 10:51:53 am »

enough to get things moving and over as long as it takes to give our club what it requires which will be many times quicker than waiting for land speculators to fill their boots.
So how much is that over how long?
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« Reply #21413 on: April 18, 2018, 10:56:31 am »

The Sixfields of cardozas and Thomas will soon be long erased from the memory and we will see a new era of companies, investors, supporters and the general good wishes of the town and county folk towards a new chairman and co operate at every level to help our club shake off the shackles of the land grabbers and if we by chance retain the boundaries around our ground, it could be put to very good use..
This way we have a better than fighting chance to improve our club beyond all recognition.
The alternative is... there isnt one😉
Ok, you talk about hard sell and attracting investment. So sell it and make it attractive. Based on Peterborough/MK and all the other examples you have quoted as desirable how much would you like to see spent on the ground in total and how long a reasonable timeframe to pay for it?
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« Reply #21414 on: April 18, 2018, 11:27:40 am »

Beds, you are very passionate on here. You talk a lot about the same issues.

My question is, what have YOU actually done about the issue?
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« Reply #21415 on: April 18, 2018, 11:29:02 am »

On another note, just finish the f*cking stand. What is stopping us? Oh it is the property gains....
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« Reply #21416 on: April 18, 2018, 14:18:15 pm »

Ok, you talk about hard sell and attracting investment. So sell it and make it attractive. Based on Peterborough/MK and all the other examples you have quoted as desirable how much would you like to see spent on the ground in total and how long a reasonable timeframe to pay for it?
Quite simply our well known 120 year old product is our selling point with its central location and excellently located ground with a ready to tap 750,000 catchment, is worth a lot more than you obviously believe.
The fact we have had owners for near on 20 years devaluing our worth and belittling and under selling us left right and centre at a time football, our national game is having a renaissance,  has just been bloody bad luck on our part.
Things need to change, the way we think about our club and what needs changing.
Our supporters trust is now getting tough on constant inactivity and lack of vision and will force change.
Our pending relegation could spell the start of a brand new exciting era for our club where the supporters town and business community together finally push the club in the right direction.
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« Reply #21417 on: April 18, 2018, 14:22:15 pm »

Beds, you are very passionate on here. You talk a lot about the same issues.

My question is, what have YOU actually done about the issue?
Its the only issues need talking about, styles of play will change, managers change, players come and go but we are for 50 years now  always found wanting and in need for some direction.
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« Reply #21418 on: April 18, 2018, 14:25:48 pm »

Quite simply our well known 120 year old product is our selling point with its central location and excellently located ground with a ready to tap 750,000 catchment, is worth a lot more than you obviously believe.
The fact we have had owners for near on 20 years devaluing our worth and belittling and under selling us left right and centre at a time football, our national game is having a renaissance,  has just been bloody bad luck on our part.
Things need to change, the way we think about our club and what needs changing.
Our supporters trust is now getting tough on constant inactivity and lack of vision and will force change.
Our pending relegation could spell the start of a brand new exciting era for our club where the supporters town and business community together finally push the club in the right direction.

again, generalisations, put a figure on how much you believe needs to be invested based on the grounds you have cited as examples for us to attain to, and a timeframe you believe will be required to either generate it or pay it back? You are quite keen to criticise others for not being upfront and covert, yet you appear incapable of answering a straight question, so what makes you any different? Again how much over how long?
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« Reply #21419 on: April 18, 2018, 14:26:05 pm »

Quite simply our well known 120 year old product is our selling point with its central location and excellently located ground with a ready to tap 750,000 catchment, is worth a lot more than you obviously believe.
The fact we have had owners for near on 20 years devaluing our worth and belittling and under selling us left right and centre at a time football, our national game is having a renaissance,  has just been bloody bad luck on our part.
Things need to change, the way we think about our club and what needs changing.
Our supporters trust is now getting tough on constant inactivity and lack of vision and will force change.
Our pending relegation could spell the start of a brand new exciting era for our club where the supporters town and business community together finally push the club in the right direction.


I think there's a realisation from some that we can't keep going on the way we have been.

Max Griggs was probably the last person with the money and wherewithal to build a club that the town can be proud of but that ship sailed. Unless his family can step back up to the plate?

There has to be some vision to underpin everything and that goes miles beyond getting a tinpot stand finished. I look at what Andy Holt is achieving at Accrington with envy really.

There is also so much passion, drive, energy, expertise and dare I say it money amongst the fan base. What the owners say goes but that is at odds with the essence of a club, the sum total of its members.

Is the club the epitome of football in the County? No I don't think it is on many levels and that is something we have to strive towards. Agree with Beds and other posters, so much potential but it feels sometimes just a little business operating out of a shell at Sixfields.

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