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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 869628 times)
Melbourne Cobbler
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« Reply #21720 on: May 17, 2018, 23:19:05 pm »

How about infrastructure bonds? Or long term leasing of the internal space within the stand, not to mention potential grants from the EFL, FA or enabling development on the land around the ground, do you know what the PWLB is?
If everybody in football was borrowing equity from private investors or greedy banks looking for an ROI in 5 years all but the Premier league teams would be playing in 50 year old run down stadiums with terracing, well they aren't so perhaps you can explain?
exactly right, and that’s exactly my point, investors are just out as an option. Therefore please come up with another solution that has some credibility along the lines you suggest? I have never suggested at any point that it is impossible, just leave banks and investors out of the equation. On a separate note I suggest you look at the figures for the Prem? The contrast and sums involved are staggering in comparison to the Championship. It becomes a completely different proposition for those involved in this area. Outside of the Prem practically all of the ground development has taken place as the result of a gift or nonprofit loan over an indefinite period from the likes of local government or a private individual. In my opinion this remains our only realistic hope, happy to be corrected though? Please note though that in my defence at least I often provide some factual evidence to support my argument rather than continually solely relying on commentary, opinion and argument, much of it absolutel b0llocks. Again no problem with that until other supporters are rounded on when they offer an alternative view?
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Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
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« Reply #21721 on: May 18, 2018, 00:02:37 am »

I posted PNEs business plan of how they funded their new stand on here twice, now that's Fact.
No sugar daddy or expensive equity.
From memory it's by PwC or Delloite can't remember which.
I think we both agree how it could go forward  Cool
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #21722 on: May 18, 2018, 00:08:29 am »

I posted PNEs business plan of how they funded their new stand on here twice, now that's Fact.
No sugar daddy or expensive equity.
From memory it's by PwC or Delloite can't remember which.
I think we both agree how it could go forward  Cool
in fairness 04 I wasn’t actually talking about you. From memory I reckon it was you who mentioned the German model but I can’t be arsed to look? In any event that is a way forward worth investigating?
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« Reply #21723 on: May 18, 2018, 00:13:55 am »

Found it
http://democracy.york.gov.uk/documents/s19763/Annex%205%20Community%20Stadium.pdf

I'm off to bed, have a good day mate.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #21724 on: May 18, 2018, 01:17:40 am »

Proper interesting read this 04 and underlines the practicalities of the challenges involved. There are a couple of holes in the reports. For example other factors to consider are business rental uptake comparably in the area and comparable rental costs of alternatives? Preston as an example might have low availability of quality office space guaranteeing both 100% (ish) uptake and costs per square foot as a premium. 25 year payback in the case of PNE falls within the remit of a mortgage term for example but I am still not entirely clear on where the initial funding is to come from? The model shows the payback stream but it still needs an initial investment? As I said it’s not impossible but what these reports show are that there are significant hurdles and risks involved in undertaking projects of this kind. Often it may be the case that there may be a will but not a way? Hopefully reasonable people reading this would see that supporters questioning the viability of these schemes have a point and any current or future owners might not be displaying apathy through a fault of their own, and are not necessarily killing the club. They just perhaps can’t raise the required capital. What I would question however is why these individuals get involved in the first place? Any road I better get on with some work, these streets won’t sweep themselves?
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« Reply #21725 on: May 18, 2018, 09:56:50 am »

The Championship seems to be the target that we aspire to as a minimum? Here are the figures for 2015/2016 which are the latest available. Of the 24 clubs listed only one showed a profit with another (Bolton) not submitting figures at the time of the report. How on any level is a football club supposed to be an attractive investment? Just to give you some idea of what some are claiming. Let’s just suppose the club was to show a 10% profit? That would be a staggering achievement based on the figures here? In the event there was 10million spent on the ground it would require a turnover of over 120 million after corporation tax to get your money back. The club currently turnsover 4 million with no profit on gates of 6000. If you doubled the gate to 12,000 as a rough figure the turnover would be 8 million. Assume another 2 million for tv etc and in the event that the club could perform a miracle in comparison to this report and show a pretax profit of 10% for 12 years straight after corporation tax an “investor” would get their money back. That’s right, not have anything to show for it, just get their money back and that’s if the club performs a miracle. This is also based on the fact that the ground was completely sold out every week (using the 12,000 capacity target) and not taking into account the fact that you have got to build the development in the first place which could add a year or two? Alternatively the investor, and I use the term loosely because they would have to be an idiot, could stick it in the Nationwide and get 3% guaranteed? Hopefully this will give a bit of clarity to the discussion, but I’m not holding my breath?

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/football-finance-championship-club-by-club-2015-16
What a load of b*llocks, I mean what Nationwide account pays 3%?    Smiley
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« Reply #21726 on: May 18, 2018, 10:18:52 am »

What a load of b*llocks, I mean what Nationwide account pays 3%?    Smiley

They probably did when he emigrated?
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Laurance Binyon

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« Reply #21727 on: May 18, 2018, 11:10:18 am »

They probably did when he emigrated?
No, actually I was talking bollocks, a throw away remark that was ill researched and had no factual basis whatsoever, but I came out with it to emphasise a cheap debating point. At last I feel like I really belong?
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Chairman, Paul Stratford Fanclub & proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society (Though refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of the Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
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« Reply #21728 on: May 18, 2018, 11:33:14 am »

What a load of b*llocks, I mean what Nationwide account pays 3%?    Smiley
Barton, you run your own business. Can you have a go at explaining to some on here the level of irony involved in the fact that the word bank is almost identical to the word w@nk? Although I must admit, Barclays, w@nkers that they are, shine like beacons of success compared to the NAB.
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« Reply #21729 on: May 18, 2018, 12:29:18 pm »

Barton, you run your own business. Can you have a go at explaining to some on here the level of irony involved in the fact that the word bank is almost identical to the word w@nk? Although I must admit, Barclays, w@nkers that they are, shine like beacons of success compared to the NAB.

You can write wank on here. Pretty useful sometimes.
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« Reply #21730 on: May 18, 2018, 12:49:54 pm »

You can write wank on here. Pretty useful sometimes.

The Yanks don't consider it a bad word, they use jerk...?
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“They shall grow not old as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
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Laurance Binyon

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« Reply #21731 on: May 18, 2018, 13:08:25 pm »

You can write wank on here. Pretty useful sometimes.
Perhaps moving forward we could use the term “gentleman’s relaxation”? I am finding the current vernacular uncomfortable.
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« Reply #21732 on: May 18, 2018, 13:43:13 pm »

You can write wank on here. Pretty useful sometimes.

 Grin

I just know you've tried a whole list of words to see what you can and can’t get away with.
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« Reply #21733 on: May 19, 2018, 08:38:49 am »

We could get the North and South expanded in line with the original plans via mini Bonds from Tifosy.

However, is it worth building on land the club doesn't own?

Again, I think there needs to be a "bigger picture" look  at the land around Sixfields. A Cardozaesque land deal of the area around Sixfields with the payoff being that crummy East Stand being finished will doubtful ever be a good enough deal for the club or the town.

We should have at least gone to the Saints with a plan to let them develop the Sixfields site (and let's face it they'd probably do a good job of it) with us having a better version of Sixfields in the deal or taking over Franklins Gardens.

As I've said elsewhere we should also be looking at other sites too. Sixfields always had a temporary feel and is its shelf life done with in terms of kicking the club on?



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« Reply #21734 on: May 19, 2018, 09:29:08 am »

Grin

I just know you've tried a whole list of words to see what you can and can’t get away with.

My arse, that's bastard bollocks
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« Reply #21735 on: May 19, 2018, 09:47:46 am »

We could get the North and South expanded in line with the original plans via mini Bonds from Tifosy.

However, is it worth building on land the club doesn't own?

Again, I think there needs to be a "bigger picture" look  at the land around Sixfields. A Cardozaesque land deal of the area around Sixfields with the payoff being that crummy East Stand being finished will doubtful ever be a good enough deal for the club or the town.

We should have at least gone to the Saints with a plan to let them develop the Sixfields site (and let's face it they'd probably do a good job of it) with us having a better version of Sixfields in the deal or taking over Franklins Gardens.

As I've said elsewhere we should also be looking at other sites too. Sixfields always had a temporary feel and is its shelf life done with in terms of kicking the club on?



4
The outstanding questions need answering first, which are ,
Have the council given these land/leases over to outside investors on the agreement that they give our football  club a £4m injection from the  subsequent windfall.
I can believe they would just hand it over unconditiomally free gratis?

If so, who decides what  when and where, as if its not handed over to a group that only has our clubs interest at heart, we cant honestly expect anything more than a token gesture dressed up as £4m.

If these questions are answered in the football clubs favour, you have a very decent 12000 capacity staduim with 12 corperate boxes and large supporters bar / functiin room right there.
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« Reply #21736 on: May 19, 2018, 10:13:05 am »

There is no need and no prospect of NTFC vacating Sixfields for pastures new.  Let's not waste time and effort in dreamland.  The club has a long lease at Sixfields and I am sure that with the right owners the freehold could be acquired or a 999 years lease negotiated.  But there has to be the will on the part of our owners and there is no sign that I can see of any intent on their part to redevelop Sixfields to something like it could and should be.  The problem is that KT is winning the PR war by fudging the bigger picture and blaming it on the Council for delays in sorting out the demarcation lines between the land on the east side leased to NTFC and that land held by CDNL, both of which are under the control of Bower and Thomas, so really not a big issue but one that is allowing Thomas to get away with spin. 
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« Reply #21737 on: May 19, 2018, 12:18:02 pm »

Excuse my ignorance on this. If KT and Bower control the club and adjoining land through Ntfc Ventures and CDNL then despite any concern over boundaries how are they affected at this point? The council say there is nothing stopping them.
The issue would be if they then then tried to separate the club from the adjoining land and sell on?
 Can’t they just merge the separate entities and get on with it?

God only knows but do something with the East.

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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet
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« Reply #21738 on: May 19, 2018, 12:24:24 pm »

You got it in one, Zen.  Time for Thomas to stop the BS.
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« Reply #21739 on: May 19, 2018, 12:47:37 pm »

Let's merge with MK Dons.
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