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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1816765 times)
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #21740 on: June 08, 2018, 12:11:13 pm »

From a business perspective the wording about involvement is perfect for KT. As long as any contact was made about the club then they have fore filled their obligation. Things such as the open sessions, consultations on fans village etc mean that have ticked that box.
Not saying they have gone against the intent but as far as any "non-compliance" issues GPC mentioned, they have fully complied with it as it is written (IMO)

True enough......the statement/requirement was pretty much open to interpretation and in the above it isn't like the Trust haven't been completely shunned, there has been involvement.
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« Reply #21741 on: June 08, 2018, 12:40:36 pm »

Good point Grange, to my way of thinking thats the way it should. The Trust in my view works alot better when it is detatched from the Club. Fans in the past  felt the Trust were too close to the Club, now i think they have re-engaged with the fans more.
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« Reply #21742 on: June 08, 2018, 13:33:05 pm »

Agree that the Trust should be separate.
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« Reply #21743 on: June 08, 2018, 19:18:53 pm »

Progress!!!

http://www.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/documents/s56434/Sixfields%20cabinet%20V7%207June%20final.pdf
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« Reply #21744 on: June 08, 2018, 19:37:30 pm »

So agree the boundary. Complete the East Stand, the council can make cash from the other land (to pay back the loan) and everyone is happy? Cardoza smashed the golden egg.
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« Reply #21745 on: June 08, 2018, 20:48:45 pm »


Here is the map

http://www.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/councillors/documents/s56435/Plan.pdf

So in essence the red part is surrendered to the council from CDNL but it then forms part of the original lease to NTFC so in control of the club allowing for unhindered development of East Stand.

I think!

The rest is still held by CDNL I believe.
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« Reply #21746 on: June 08, 2018, 21:47:23 pm »

Here is the map

http://www.northamptonboroughcouncil.com/councillors/documents/s56435/Plan.pdf

So in essence the red part is surrendered to the council from CDNL but it then forms part of the original lease to NTFC so in control of the club allowing for unhindered development of East Stand.

I think!

The rest is still held by CDNL I believe.

Doesn't seem to be a lot of the "rest " left!! Just a telephone shaped piece!!
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« Reply #21747 on: June 08, 2018, 23:26:43 pm »

so reading that report, and looking at the map...

Kt does not seem to have been full of it, and on a land grab mission?

What do the detractors think about that?
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« Reply #21748 on: June 09, 2018, 00:15:58 am »

Basically, panic over, KT isn't the devil and everything is okay.
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« Reply #21749 on: June 09, 2018, 06:10:54 am »

Yeah, sounds like it. I'm relieved that we (i.e. the club) don't seem to be the bad guys in this as it was starting to look. Indeed, it appears there aren't any bad guys at all, just council ineptitude over the management of the leases.

It would still be interesting to know what minor amendments the club requested and if they are reflected in these documents though!
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« Reply #21750 on: June 09, 2018, 07:18:28 am »

Yeah, sounds like it. I'm relieved that we (i.e. the club) don't seem to be the bad guys in this as it was starting to look. Indeed, it appears there aren't any bad guys at all, just council ineptitude over the management of the leases.


That’s my take but I think it would be really good for the club to make a statement on next steps and perhaps a consolidatory note about the council so we can move forward with no bad blood.
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« Reply #21751 on: June 09, 2018, 07:28:41 am »

Doesn't seem to be a lot of the "rest " left!! Just a telephone shaped piece!!

I’m not so sure about that. This is only about the original leases that covered the athletics track and stadium then was subdivided as shown. The additional full redevelopment land granted for the majority of the houses etc was for the parcel after the edge of the blue line. The lease for that was never duplicated or in question so doesn’t form part of this upcoming meeting.
 As it appeared on other documents, as CDNL was never liquidated and a CVA was agreed, did the new owners KT and DB surrender or lose it to the council? I didn’t think so but who knows?
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« Reply #21752 on: June 09, 2018, 07:53:00 am »

Can anyone explain the land under CDNL control after the lease surrender as the blue zone does not appear to match up with the huge swathe of land that Cardoza was planning on?

This appears to open a new can of worms.

Are Bower and Thomas going to spend £4million of their own money to finish the East Stand?

What is the status of their masterplan for wider land use which may or may not include what Clarkeysntfc described as

"KT and his group have proposed multiple options for developing the land around the stadium from retail to offices, distribution sheds etc etc. They have also provided proven funding of £ millions."

How does any masterplan tie in with NBC's declaration that

"Neither the 2004 Lease or the lease granted to CDNL in 2013 enable either party to carry out a commercial development of the relevant land due to restrictions in the terms of the leases. If this is to happen there will need to be a separate negotiation between the respective tenants and the Council, who will need to ensure that in agreeing any changes, that the requirements of S.123 of the Local Government Act (1972) to achieve best value are met."

What are Bower and Thomas' short-medium term intentions to fund the football club?
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 07:56:14 am by meccanostand » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #21753 on: June 09, 2018, 08:45:37 am »

The athletics track as one original lease makes perfect sense. The red outline leaves plenty of access space to the rear of the East Stand and, together with the other 20m that extends the central part towards the far edge of the running track, there is space for another building, probably a hotel, which can bridge link to the back of the East Stand and the conference/event rooms on the first floor. That is why there would be a condition about football club use only on match days.

Cardoza/Grossmans ill-conceived plans had housing development right up to the back of the East Stand - very little access space...stupid! You may remenber that they wanted to put a hotel at the front of the West Stand...in an effort to maximise the development to the east of the football ground. They made such a pigs ear of everything amd probably lost interest when they realised that  housing was not the best idea on landfill, and out of town retail was not really supported at that time!

I really do think that KT and his partners do have the best interests of the club in mind and all the other conspiracy theories are exaggerated.
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« Reply #21754 on: June 09, 2018, 09:08:15 am »

Can anyone explain the land under CDNL control after the lease surrender as the blue zone does not appear to match up with the huge swathe of land that Cardoza was planning on?

This appears to open a new can of worms.

Are Bower and Thomas going to spend £4million of their own money to finish the East Stand?

What is the status of their masterplan for wider land use which may or may not include what Clarkeysntfc described as

"KT and his group have proposed multiple options for developing the land around the stadium from retail to offices, distribution sheds etc etc. They have also provided proven funding of £ millions."

How does any masterplan tie in with NBC's declaration that

"Neither the 2004 Lease or the lease granted to CDNL in 2013 enable either party to carry out a commercial development of the relevant land due to restrictions in the terms of the leases. If this is to happen there will need to be a separate negotiation between the respective tenants and the Council, who will need to ensure that in agreeing any changes, that the requirements of S.123 of the Local Government Act (1972) to achieve best value are met."

What are Bower and Thomas' short-medium term intentions to fund the football club?

Im glad someone has stated all of this.

Lets see the colour of their money first and a nice new brand spanking East Stand before any 'constructive questioning' is waived. Although I suspect the 85% is back on board for the time being!!!

What we can confidently assume is that the Land fruit machine isn't going to pay out until a further 3-4 million quid is chucked into it (stand and covering losses for the next year). If KT gets the builders in like he always said he would, no questions asked, then I will be the first person to jump back on board with his 'short term vision' for the Football Club. If he doesn't then it will confirm what Im currently thinking.
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« Reply #21755 on: June 09, 2018, 09:43:17 am »

Im glad someone has stated all of this.

Lets see the colour of their money first and a nice new brand spanking East Stand before any 'constructive questioning' is waived. Although I suspect the 85% is back on board for the time being!!!

What we can confidently assume is that the Land fruit machine isn't going to pay out until a further 3-4 million quid is chucked into it (stand and covering losses for the next year). If KT gets the builders in like he always said he would, no questions asked, then I will be the first person to jump back on board with his 'short term vision' for the Football Club. If he doesn't then it will confirm what Im currently thinking.
My thinking is now that the land ownership/leases issues have been sorted, we could more easily be sold , which may be best for all parties.
Other than promises for a few boxes which were probably subjected to enabling lands that now appear to extend little further than the 8 lanes of running track, its unlikely we will see anything any time soon.
We need owners willing to talk things up and work with the whole Town  and the supporters of the football club to get things moving, unfortunately KT has been very stand alone and quick to play down the very things that constantly hold back our club, lack of capacity leading to subsequent growth.
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« Reply #21756 on: June 09, 2018, 10:50:05 am »

In my simplistic terms as a council tax payer and a season ticket holder, kelvin Thomas has done very well for HIMSELF AND DAVID BOWER so far, lets see what he does for US
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« Reply #21757 on: June 09, 2018, 12:08:16 pm »

My thinking is now that the land ownership/leases issues have been sorted, we could more easily be sold , which may be best for all parties.
Other than promises for a few boxes which were probably subjected to enabling lands that now appear to extend little further than the 8 lanes of running track, its unlikely we will see anything any time soon.
We need owners willing to talk things up and work with the whole Town  and the supporters of the football club to get things moving, unfortunately KT has been very stand alone and quick to play down the very things that constantly hold back our club, lack of capacity leading to subsequent growth.
Any time soon is not really the issue though, Beds. I don't think anyone can really argue with your idea that to sustain high-end L1 football we should be looking at averaging 9k+ crowds, and to do that requires a 12k+ stadium. I'm happy with baby steps - a more functional ground with boxes/conference facilities but still sub 8k capacity may well be fine for this season - we don't necessarily need new owners for that. Should we (hopefully) get to L1 in the near future then we can see where KT et al go from there.
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« Reply #21758 on: June 09, 2018, 13:07:13 pm »

so reading that report, and looking at the map...

Kt does not seem to have been full of it, and on a land grab mission?

What do the detractors think about that?

Well, fair does I can understand why KT & co wanted this area returned to NTFC, and fair play for having achieved this. I can even sort of accept their version of events that they "acquired the CDNL land leases to protect the football club". However, it doesn't alter the fact they agreed a MoU with NBC, in which NBC planned on recovering all the land issued to CDNL, and they then leapfrogged the Council to get control of those leases.

So, as it stands, any issue affecting NTFC's build on that plot is now resolved. However, KT & Bower now hold leases for land on which several twenty-million plus offers have already been received - and this was just for the land, so imagine the potential profit margin.

KT will have to work with the Council to forward any development of the much larger plot, so hopefully a deal can still be struck wherein the Council are quids in (including recovering an additional 10 million). If a full land development goes ahead I would like to see the East pulled down and rebuilt to decent specs, though I suspect it'll be a cold day in Hell.
Personally, I wouldn't rule out CDNL (current owners) just offloading the land for a hefty profit and vacating all things Northampton.

The way I see it the jury is still out. If NBC and KT/DB all make good money, and the club end up with a better stadium with realistically improved capacity, then Kelvin Thomas becomes a hero and will go down as a bit of a legend. If we end up back in the basement division with a ****-pit East Stand, and KT/DB bail with a hefty profit achieved by gazumping NBC to those leases, well, that'd tell us all we needed to know.

Over to you, Kelvin.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 13:44:15 pm by JollyCobbler » Report Spam   Logged
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« Reply #21759 on: June 10, 2018, 15:47:07 pm »

I hope all of those people who were accusing KT and his group of being on a land grab or trying to fleece the council are submitting apologies to him directly.
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