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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 970169 times)
cobblerwatch
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« Reply #22140 on: June 24, 2018, 22:20:39 pm »

Brighton didnt always sell out the 6600 withdean but sell 30,000 at the amex..

Initially I thought good point but there is the little difference of the league they are playing in - now you would argue their premiership status was helped by a 30k ground - most would say it was the filthy rich owner - itís a bit of a chicken and egg scenario isnít it?
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Tom
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« Reply #22141 on: June 24, 2018, 23:30:01 pm »

That average gate you refer to is one from the Sixfields in it current  substandard non league state that has serious  limitations that directly effects the the amount of visitors attracted to it and limited capacity forcing restrictions on admission that doesn't allow the promotion of the most attractive games to new supporters  to avoid regulars being lock out.
Despite what kelvin thinks, regularly having 8 or 9000 in a 12000 professional looking staduim is better than 6500 plus in a shoe box looking restricted one.

That average gate stat they refer to is based on fact, which is very different to most of what you come out with which is opinion.

People are giving you facts, and you respond with an opinion, treating it as fact - Sixfields is no where near a non league stadium, which reduces your entire comment down to.....that'd be nada.

End result is you look as ridiculous as we would sat in a 12,000 seat stadium with 1000's of empty seats that we've got just incase we get a big cup draw or the less than a handful of other occasions that away fans want to fill the ground.

We would not regularly get 8000 or 9000 people attending Sixfields just because there was better facilities, Look at what happened to Darlington (and others) who got more than they needed.
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« Reply #22142 on: June 25, 2018, 01:23:00 am »

Wrong again. Surprise surprise.

No loyalty to anyone bar the club itself. Nobody, well nobody sane, is saying they dont want a bigger ground. Nobody. 99% are just pretty well grounded and not on crack.

Well, it looks like that is exactly what Tom is saying! Wink
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« Reply #22143 on: June 25, 2018, 02:07:07 am »

Well, it looks like that is exactly what Tom is saying! Wink

 Grin

Sane!
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guest3114
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« Reply #22144 on: June 25, 2018, 02:18:07 am »

That average gate stat they refer to is based on fact, which is very different to most of what you come out with which is opinion.

People are giving you facts, and you respond with an opinion, treating it as fact - Sixfields is no where near a non league stadium, which reduces your entire comment down to.....that'd be nada.

End result is you look as ridiculous as we would sat in a 12,000 seat stadium with 1000's of empty seats that we've got just incase we get a big cup draw or the less than a handful of other occasions that away fans want to fill the ground.

We would not regularly get 8000 or 9000 people attending Sixfields just because there was better facilities, Look at what happened to Darlington (and others) who got more than they needed.
The thing is Tom all of this is completely irrelevant. We could argue about what type of ground we need and the justification for it for the next 100 years. The only thing thatís relevant is an ability to raise the finance to fulfil any ambition. Kelvin Thomas could share exactly the same vision as Beds, unlikely but possible? However, I believe he would find it impossible to do anything about it. I work in a world where I regularly have to deal with the scenario under discussion, and it is difficult for me to convey the enormity of what some on here are demanding from a financial perspective. It is a fact that unless the owner of the club has a personal fortune considerably greater than the investment required, that they are prepared to secure against the debt, then what is being demanded by some is impossible and it doesnít matter how hard they stamp their feet. This security also has to be reasonably attainable by the lender if required. That is an irrefutable fact and itís not up for debate. I can also tell you as fact that if the majority of KTs assets are in the USA, they would be excluded from consideration. This is not something I am making up, this comes from personally being involved in dealing with similar situations on a professional level. Trust me on this, the futility of what is being proposed by some on here is so unrealistic itís ridiculously comical. As I said many posts ago, there is nothing wrong with dreaming, and if people want to fantasise on here its none of my business. However, when they want to start slagging off the chairman and other supporters for not falling into line with their unattainable ridiculous nonsense, thatís akin to beating up a blind man for being unable to see, then they derserve all the ridicule they get. Please listen to me, it canít be done and thatís a fact, until we get an owner with eye watering wealth or someone like NBC just handover the cash on almost gift like terms. I suspect however that this crap will go on indefinitely, mainly because the main protagonists naivety and stubbornness exceeds their intelligence by a considerable margin.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22145 on: June 25, 2018, 07:23:28 am »

Initially I thought good point but there is the little difference of the league they are playing in - now you would argue their premiership status was helped by a 30k ground - most would say it was the filthy rich owner - itís a bit of a chicken and egg scenario isnít it?
They didnt play premiership football at the withdean thats for sure or Rotherham championship football at the don valley or Doncaster didn't  play championship football at Belleview and so on.
 We can never challenge out side the 4th tier until we have forward thinking people at the helm who understand how things work and have an idea as to what can be achieved and where we should be at, all things considered.
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« Reply #22146 on: June 25, 2018, 07:25:54 am »

The constant argument is that if we have an attractive stadium that we will attract more fans, with the biggest argument it seems being on away fans. It wont be easy to ask away fans but we can flip it on to us...

Who has attended an away league game primarily because of the stadium?
Who has not attended an away league game because the stadium is poor?
Where does the stadium quality rank in your decision making process about attending an away game?


For me...
No,
yes Bristol Rovers but I've been a few times now and hate the place,
location and opponent are the two main factors along with have I been there before
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22147 on: June 25, 2018, 07:44:44 am »

That average gate stat they refer to is based on fact, which is very different to most of what you come out with which is opinion.

People are giving you facts, and you respond with an opinion, treating it as fact - Sixfields is no where near a non league stadium, which reduces your entire comment down to.....that'd be nada.

End result is you look as ridiculous as we would sat in a 12,000 seat stadium with 1000's of empty seats that we've got just incase we get a big cup draw or the less than a handful of other occasions that away fans want to fill the ground.

We would not regularly get 8000 or 9000 people attending Sixfields just because there was better facilities, Look at what happened to Darlington (and others) who got more than they needed.
Oh dear, hes mentioned little Darlington as a reason Northampton with 300,000 inhabitants living within 10 miles, should not progress its infrastructure to a measly 12000 in order to have spare capacity (thats a good thing as you cant sell what you dont have, unless your viagogo 😂) to grow your product. Theres no similarities between the 2.
I think weve established that Sixfields is in fact sub non league standard as most non league clubs can cater for their catchment and in a position to gain promotion, we cand do neither.
Most non league clubs now have large matchday supporters bars and corperate boxes and other non match day revenue streams, we dont have most of these things, and that is a brutal fact.
Woukd you honestly turn down the opportunity to allow our club to opperate in a more professional setting with a 12000 capacity staduim? No you wouldn't, so question your own ambitions for our club and dont worry about going against the Chairman zero growth policy to date, this is your club as well.
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Manwork04
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« Reply #22148 on: June 25, 2018, 08:07:14 am »

Sixfields is hopelessly inadequate for us to progress, I think this has now been proved as fact three or four times.
Its a best a lower league two ground.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #22149 on: June 25, 2018, 08:26:12 am »

Hereís an idea, if all those that share this vision were to put 10 grand on their mortgage and then get 2,000 other supporters to do the same they would raise 20 million, more than enough. All they need to do is get out there and sell the club hard. Theyíve the complete sales pitch lined up, people will be gagging to sign up? Iím guessing their mouths are writing cheques their resolve canít cash though?
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St Edmundsbury Cobbler
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« Reply #22150 on: June 25, 2018, 09:02:13 am »

The constant argument is that if we have an attractive stadium that we will attract more fans, with the biggest argument it seems being on away fans. It wont be easy to ask away fans but we can flip it on to us...

Who has attended an away league game primarily because of the stadium?
Who has not attended an away league game because the stadium is poor?
Where does the stadium quality rank in your decision making process about attending an away game?


For me...
No,
yes Bristol Rovers but I've been a few times now and hate the place,
location and opponent are the two main factors along with have I been there before

My criteria for attending an away game are

Am I busy
Can I afford it
Have I been before

The standard of stadium isn't an issue, otherwise my first and last trip to Underhill would have been in 1993
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Jeema 3:16
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« Reply #22151 on: June 25, 2018, 09:32:50 am »

My criteria for attending an away game are

Am I busy
Can I afford it
Have I been before

The standard of stadium isn't an issue, otherwise my first and last trip to Underhill would have been in 1993

I am mostly same as you. I will avoid an uncovered stand if rain is forecast though...
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barton cobbler
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« Reply #22152 on: June 25, 2018, 09:36:26 am »


I think weve established that Sixfields is in fact sub non league standard as most non league clubs can cater for their catchment and in a position to gain promotion, we cand do neither.
Most non league clubs now have large matchday supporters bars and corperate boxes and other non match day revenue streams, we dont have most of these things, and that is a brutal fact.
 
  I think you in your own mind "have established that Sixfields is sub non league". What on earth is "Sub non league"Huh? I've been to loads of non league grounds and there are very few that are even at the same standard as Sixfields, only maybe Chesterfield and Orient. Also, apart from those could you post on here a list of "Most non league clubs now have corporate boxes" because I'm struggling to remember them.
      You really do yourself no favours when you post crap like that, and finish with "that is a brutal fact" when it's quite obviously not.
      
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22153 on: June 25, 2018, 13:49:06 pm »

Hereís an idea, if all those that share this vision were to put 10 grand on their mortgage and then get 2,000 other supporters to do the same they would raise 20 million, more than enough. All they need to do is get out there and sell the club hard. Theyíve the complete sales pitch lined up, people will be gagging to sign up? Iím guessing their mouths are writing cheques their resolve canít cash though?
we have already established several workable plans where no one has to dig deep, even the Chairman and co can continue without spending a penny of their own money.
Losing the ground naming rights was a major loss to any redev plans but theres still other ways as previously stated.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22154 on: June 25, 2018, 14:02:40 pm »

  I think you in your own mind "have established that Sixfields is sub non league". What on earth is "Sub non league"Huh? I've been to loads of non league grounds and there are very few that are even at the same standard as Sixfields, only maybe Chesterfield and Orient. Also, apart from those could you post on here a list of "Most non league clubs now have corporate boxes" because I'm struggling to remember them.
      You really do yourself no favours when you post crap like that, and finish with "that is a brutal fact" when it's quite obviously not.
      
Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
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guest170
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« Reply #22155 on: June 25, 2018, 15:27:45 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
Alanyaspor...
Alanya 291643 + 15,000 within 10 miles
Ground capacity 10,130
= 3.3%

What do I win?
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WasRambo
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« Reply #22156 on: June 25, 2018, 15:50:50 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.

You're kind of missing the point that "being able to cater for 3.3%" is currently, actually more than enough.

If we were turning people away every week your argument may have some credibility.

As it is though, you stand alone thinking we need a capacity any more than we have (or had at 7,457 or whatever it is).

Besides, you can manipulate the numbers anyway you want depending on how you want to size the conurbation or catchment area and it has little or no relevance. Just because people live in or around Northampton, it doesn't give the club the God given right to their support. I bet plenty travel into London, Birmingham and even Manchester and Liverpool every other week to support their teams.

When we serve up something worth watching - when the ticket office can't cope with demand - then you can start baying for more capacity.

The only tiny piece of your argument that holds any water is around facilities but again, I wouldn't (personally) choose the club I follow based on how many corporate boxes they have or what beer they serve. You are perfectly entitled to of course - just don't expect too many others to be of a similar view
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guest3114
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« Reply #22157 on: June 25, 2018, 15:52:18 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
Cheltenham given that Gloucester is 9.1 miles away. Northampton population 2,011 was 215,713 with Sixfields capacity 7,750.  Cheltenham and Gloucester 231,924 population for same period with a smaller ground capacity of 7,066, hope this helps?
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22158 on: June 25, 2018, 15:54:43 pm »

The thing is Tom all of this is completely irrelevant. We could argue about what type of ground we need and the justification for it for the next 100 years. The only thing thatís relevant is an ability to raise the finance to fulfil any ambition. Kelvin Thomas could share exactly the same vision as Beds, unlikely but possible? However, I believe he would find it impossible to do anything about it. I work in a world where I regularly have to deal with the scenario under discussion, and it is difficult for me to convey the enormity of what some on here are demanding from a financial perspective. It is a fact that unless the owner of the club has a personal fortune considerably greater than the investment required, that they are prepared to secure against the debt, then what is being demanded by some is impossible and it doesnít matter how hard they stamp their feet. This security also has to be reasonably attainable by the lender if required. That is an irrefutable fact and itís not up for debate. I can also tell you as fact that if the majority of KTs assets are in the USA, they would be excluded from consideration. This is not something I am making up, this comes from personally being involved in dealing with similar situations on a professional level. Trust me on this, the futility of what is being proposed by some on here is so unrealistic itís ridiculously comical. As I said many posts ago, there is nothing wrong with dreaming, and if people want to fantasise on here its none of my business. However, when they want to start slagging off the chairman and other supporters for not falling into line with their unattainable ridiculous nonsense, thatís akin to beating up a blind man for being unable to see, then they derserve all the ridicule they get. Please listen to me, it canít be done and thatís a fact, until we get an owner with eye watering wealth or someone like NBC just handover the cash on almost gift like terms. I suspect however that this crap will go on indefinitely, mainly because the main protagonists naivety and stubbornness exceeds their intelligence by a considerable margin.


What an absolute load of twaddle. You seem to be ignoring the fact that one of the prime reasons NBC wiped out the 10.25 million - plus interest - debt was because KT & partners intended 'the completion of the East Stand'.
Since this MoU was reached, KT has hinted at a 'master plan' for the stadium. He has also acted to secure the leases which NBC intended using to reclaim some of the lost millions. As things stand, our chairman is going to be quids in, so using a few million to supply a decent product is the least he should do. Take note: I am not asking (or expecting) him to turn the Post Traumatic Stress Stadium into Camp Nou.

And let's not forget item 2.e, 'The Football Club will establish arrangements with the Supporters Trust for their
involvement in the Football Club as soon as possible and at the latest by 31st March 2016.' That worked out well, didn't it?

Instead of repeatedly sniping at Beds, people ought to take a look at the bigger picture. Because the jury is definitely still out on our current owners.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22159 on: June 25, 2018, 15:56:57 pm »

Hereís an idea, if all those that share this vision were to put 10 grand on their mortgage and then get 2,000 other supporters to do the same they would raise 20 million, more than enough. All they need to do is get out there and sell the club hard. Theyíve the complete sales pitch lined up, people will be gagging to sign up? Iím guessing their mouths are writing cheques their resolve canít cash though?

Is that a figure plucked from thin air? Most are talking about a 2/3000 capacity increase. Nowhere near your figure.
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