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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 995578 times)
barton cobbler
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« Reply #22140 on: June 25, 2018, 09:36:26 am »


I think weve established that Sixfields is in fact sub non league standard as most non league clubs can cater for their catchment and in a position to gain promotion, we cand do neither.
Most non league clubs now have large matchday supporters bars and corperate boxes and other non match day revenue streams, we dont have most of these things, and that is a brutal fact.
 
  I think you in your own mind "have established that Sixfields is sub non league". What on earth is "Sub non league"Huh? I've been to loads of non league grounds and there are very few that are even at the same standard as Sixfields, only maybe Chesterfield and Orient. Also, apart from those could you post on here a list of "Most non league clubs now have corporate boxes" because I'm struggling to remember them.
      You really do yourself no favours when you post crap like that, and finish with "that is a brutal fact" when it's quite obviously not.
      
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22141 on: June 25, 2018, 13:49:06 pm »

Hereís an idea, if all those that share this vision were to put 10 grand on their mortgage and then get 2,000 other supporters to do the same they would raise 20 million, more than enough. All they need to do is get out there and sell the club hard. Theyíve the complete sales pitch lined up, people will be gagging to sign up? Iím guessing their mouths are writing cheques their resolve canít cash though?
we have already established several workable plans where no one has to dig deep, even the Chairman and co can continue without spending a penny of their own money.
Losing the ground naming rights was a major loss to any redev plans but theres still other ways as previously stated.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22142 on: June 25, 2018, 14:02:40 pm »

  I think you in your own mind "have established that Sixfields is sub non league". What on earth is "Sub non league"Huh? I've been to loads of non league grounds and there are very few that are even at the same standard as Sixfields, only maybe Chesterfield and Orient. Also, apart from those could you post on here a list of "Most non league clubs now have corporate boxes" because I'm struggling to remember them.
      You really do yourself no favours when you post crap like that, and finish with "that is a brutal fact" when it's quite obviously not.
      
Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
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« Reply #22143 on: June 25, 2018, 15:27:45 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
Alanyaspor...
Alanya 291643 + 15,000 within 10 miles
Ground capacity 10,130
= 3.3%

What do I win?
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WasRambo
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« Reply #22144 on: June 25, 2018, 15:50:50 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.

You're kind of missing the point that "being able to cater for 3.3%" is currently, actually more than enough.

If we were turning people away every week your argument may have some credibility.

As it is though, you stand alone thinking we need a capacity any more than we have (or had at 7,457 or whatever it is).

Besides, you can manipulate the numbers anyway you want depending on how you want to size the conurbation or catchment area and it has little or no relevance. Just because people live in or around Northampton, it doesn't give the club the God given right to their support. I bet plenty travel into London, Birmingham and even Manchester and Liverpool every other week to support their teams.

When we serve up something worth watching - when the ticket office can't cope with demand - then you can start baying for more capacity.

The only tiny piece of your argument that holds any water is around facilities but again, I wouldn't (personally) choose the club I follow based on how many corporate boxes they have or what beer they serve. You are perfectly entitled to of course - just don't expect too many others to be of a similar view
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« Reply #22145 on: June 25, 2018, 15:52:18 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
Cheltenham given that Gloucester is 9.1 miles away. Northampton population 2,011 was 215,713 with Sixfields capacity 7,750.  Cheltenham and Gloucester 231,924 population for same period with a smaller ground capacity of 7,066, hope this helps?
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22146 on: June 25, 2018, 15:54:43 pm »

The thing is Tom all of this is completely irrelevant. We could argue about what type of ground we need and the justification for it for the next 100 years. The only thing thatís relevant is an ability to raise the finance to fulfil any ambition. Kelvin Thomas could share exactly the same vision as Beds, unlikely but possible? However, I believe he would find it impossible to do anything about it. I work in a world where I regularly have to deal with the scenario under discussion, and it is difficult for me to convey the enormity of what some on here are demanding from a financial perspective. It is a fact that unless the owner of the club has a personal fortune considerably greater than the investment required, that they are prepared to secure against the debt, then what is being demanded by some is impossible and it doesnít matter how hard they stamp their feet. This security also has to be reasonably attainable by the lender if required. That is an irrefutable fact and itís not up for debate. I can also tell you as fact that if the majority of KTs assets are in the USA, they would be excluded from consideration. This is not something I am making up, this comes from personally being involved in dealing with similar situations on a professional level. Trust me on this, the futility of what is being proposed by some on here is so unrealistic itís ridiculously comical. As I said many posts ago, there is nothing wrong with dreaming, and if people want to fantasise on here its none of my business. However, when they want to start slagging off the chairman and other supporters for not falling into line with their unattainable ridiculous nonsense, thatís akin to beating up a blind man for being unable to see, then they derserve all the ridicule they get. Please listen to me, it canít be done and thatís a fact, until we get an owner with eye watering wealth or someone like NBC just handover the cash on almost gift like terms. I suspect however that this crap will go on indefinitely, mainly because the main protagonists naivety and stubbornness exceeds their intelligence by a considerable margin.


What an absolute load of twaddle. You seem to be ignoring the fact that one of the prime reasons NBC wiped out the 10.25 million - plus interest - debt was because KT & partners intended 'the completion of the East Stand'.
Since this MoU was reached, KT has hinted at a 'master plan' for the stadium. He has also acted to secure the leases which NBC intended using to reclaim some of the lost millions. As things stand, our chairman is going to be quids in, so using a few million to supply a decent product is the least he should do. Take note: I am not asking (or expecting) him to turn the Post Traumatic Stress Stadium into Camp Nou.

And let's not forget item 2.e, 'The Football Club will establish arrangements with the Supporters Trust for their
involvement in the Football Club as soon as possible and at the latest by 31st March 2016.' That worked out well, didn't it?

Instead of repeatedly sniping at Beds, people ought to take a look at the bigger picture. Because the jury is definitely still out on our current owners.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22147 on: June 25, 2018, 15:56:57 pm »

Hereís an idea, if all those that share this vision were to put 10 grand on their mortgage and then get 2,000 other supporters to do the same they would raise 20 million, more than enough. All they need to do is get out there and sell the club hard. Theyíve the complete sales pitch lined up, people will be gagging to sign up? Iím guessing their mouths are writing cheques their resolve canít cash though?

Is that a figure plucked from thin air? Most are talking about a 2/3000 capacity increase. Nowhere near your figure.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22148 on: June 25, 2018, 16:00:25 pm »

  I think you in your own mind "have established that Sixfields is sub non league". What on earth is "Sub non league"Huh? I've been to loads of non league grounds and there are very few that are even at the same standard as Sixfields, only maybe Chesterfield and Orient. Also, apart from those could you post on here a list of "Most non league clubs now have corporate boxes" because I'm struggling to remember them.
      You really do yourself no favours when you post crap like that, and finish with "that is a brutal fact" when it's quite obviously not.
      

This is the problem, Barton. There's a certain amount of what he says relating to what's going/gone on at our club which makes sense. But he doesn't help his own cause with all the other nonsense.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22149 on: June 25, 2018, 16:07:57 pm »

You're kind of missing the point that "being able to cater for 3.3%" is currently, actually more than enough.

If we were turning people away every week your argument may have some credibility.

As it is though, you stand alone thinking we need a capacity any more than we have (or had at 7,457 or whatever it is).

Besides, you can manipulate the numbers anyway you want depending on how you want to size the conurbation or catchment area and it has little or no relevance. Just because people live in or around Northampton, it doesn't give the club the God given right to their support. I bet plenty travel into London, Birmingham and even Manchester and Liverpool every other week to support their teams.

When we serve up something worth watching - when the ticket office can't cope with demand - then you can start baying for more capacity.

The only tiny piece of your argument that holds any water is around facilities but again, I wouldn't (personally) choose the club I follow based on how many corporate boxes they have or what beer they serve. You are perfectly entitled to of course - just don't expect too many others to be of a similar view

I don't agree with all of that. I could name a few dozen people who attended in the promotion season, but it was a one off experience as they were stuck in the corners, away from mates and feeling detached from the event. Simple fact is, in those same circumstances we would/could pull bigger crowds with increased capacity. I honestly believe we would've pulled a few 10,000 crowds During the Wilder promotion run-in, if we could have accommodated. It's a shame Sixfields wasn't built to the original specs: 11,400 capacity. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Wink
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cobblergaz59
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« Reply #22150 on: June 25, 2018, 16:35:45 pm »

I don't agree with all of that. I could name a few dozen people who attended in the promotion season, but it was a one off experience as they were stuck in the corners, away from mates and feeling detached from the event. Simple fact is, in those same circumstances we would/could pull bigger crowds with increased capacity. I honestly believe we would've pulled a few 10,000 crowds During the Wilder promotion run-in, if we could have accommodated. It's a shame Sixfields wasn't built to the original specs: 11,400 capacity. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Wink

Yes we would because certain people would be saying we needed an 18,000 capacity so we could grow.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22151 on: June 25, 2018, 17:09:36 pm »

Yes we would because certain people would be saying we needed an 18,000 capacity so we could grow.

I have no idea to whom you are referring. Grin
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cobblerwatch
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« Reply #22152 on: June 25, 2018, 17:54:37 pm »

It's a shame Sixfields wasn't built to the original specs: 11,400 capacity. Then we wouldn't be having this conversation. Wink

Hindsight being marvelous - and how much cheaper it would have been - however in reality the original plan was modeled on Chesterís ground and had a planned 4,300 capacity (with ďeasyĒ options to expand as necessary)

I fear for Bedís blood pressure had that plan actually been executed.
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JollyCobbler
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« Reply #22153 on: June 25, 2018, 17:59:12 pm »

Hindsight being marvelous - and how much cheaper it would have been - however in reality the original plan was modeled on Chesterís ground and had a planned 4,300 capacity (with ďeasyĒ options to expand as necessary)

I fear for Bedís blood pressure had that plan actually been executed.

I don't know about 4,300 because if true it would seem ridiculous. However, I was privy to the original building specs through work contacts, and it was definitely supposed to be 11,300/11,400. I think the gas management ate into the budget, and hence the reduction.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22154 on: June 25, 2018, 18:06:32 pm »

Hindsight being marvelous - and how much cheaper it would have been - however in reality the original plan was modeled on Chesterís ground and had a planned 4,300 capacity (with ďeasyĒ options to expand as necessary)

I fear for Bedís blood pressure had that plan actually been executed.
My blood pressure is just fine, there are those though whose blood pressure is rising at the thought of having to reveal of some plans as they now have nowhere to hide.
Im hoping something happens and those in charge with our clubs future actully produce some detailed ideas of what they propose.
I doubt very much they amount to much but you never know.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #22155 on: June 25, 2018, 18:13:56 pm »

You're kind of missing the point that "being able to cater for 3.3%" is currently, actually more than enough.

If we were turning people away every week your argument may have some credibility.
Sixfields as is is a total turn off but still acheived 80% capacity these last 3 seasons, so its not beyond the realms of possibility to expect another 30% plus increase had we a ground that is a whole lot less 5hite.
The current gates are subjected to heavy restrictions so its you who has missed the point badly.
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barton cobbler
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« Reply #22156 on: June 25, 2018, 22:14:52 pm »

Name another professional football club any where in Europe that can only cater for 3.3% of its conurbation and that of its immediate catchment, say a 10 mile radius without competing with other professional football clubs?
There isnt any and if there was it would soon be rectified.
Sixfields is not fit for purpose in its present state, all these non league clubs you refer to, dont have the same issues that hold us back.
You seem to have forgot to tell me the names of the "most non league clubs now have corporate boxes". You defeat your own argument every time by stating something as a fact when everyone can see is incorrect.
   I'll wait for the list of those non league clubs  Wink
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« Reply #22157 on: June 25, 2018, 22:21:17 pm »

Is that a figure plucked from thin air? Most are talking about a 2/3000 capacity increase. Nowhere near your figure.
Just alter the sums to the relevant amount Jolly. If you need 10 million ask for 5K a share itís not complicated . Beds will be delighted, looks like your signing up?
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« Reply #22158 on: June 25, 2018, 22:30:18 pm »

What an absolute load of twaddle. You seem to be ignoring the fact that one of the prime reasons NBC wiped out the 10.25 million - plus interest - debt was because KT & partners intended 'the completion of the East Stand'.
Since this MoU was reached, KT has hinted at a 'master plan' for the stadium. He has also acted to secure the leases which NBC intended using to reclaim some of the lost millions. As things stand, our chairman is going to be quids in, so using a few million to supply a decent product is the least he should do. Take note: I am not asking (or expecting) him to turn the Post Traumatic Stress Stadium into Camp Nou.

And let's not forget item 2.e, 'The Football Club will establish arrangements with the Supporters Trust for their
involvement in the Football Club as soon as possible and at the latest by 31st March 2016.' That worked out well, didn't it?

Instead of repeatedly sniping at Beds, people ought to take a look at the bigger picture. Because the jury is definitely still out on our current owners.
Have no idea what you are on about. Finishing the East Stand honouring the original commitment is a completely different proposition to most of what is being demanded on here. The criteria is to turn Sixfields into one of the must visit stadiums in the football league. Try and keep up will you?
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cobblerwatch
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« Reply #22159 on: June 25, 2018, 22:39:12 pm »

I don't know about 4,300 because if true it would seem ridiculous. However, I was privy to the original building specs through work contacts, and it was definitely supposed to be 11,300/11,400. I think the gas management ate into the budget, and hence the reduction.

Absolutely correct and my term original plan was incorrect - originally specified at just short of 12k but soaring costs, the methane ventilation issues and some definite council detractors saw a plan that had the west stand identical to the east one - fortunately a compromise was reached and a reasonably respectable west stand was the outcome.
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