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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1822539 times)
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #23240 on: November 24, 2018, 08:07:19 am »

And right there Beds is the real difference between people on this thread, when you finally cut through the crap and squabbling. Half are talking about what we want, the other half are talking about what we are likely to get.
You haven't said what you want yet?
Would it be Thomas at the helm for the next 10 years, using the goodwill of the clubs supporters to keep the club ticking along in the basement division without any improvement to our decrepit  infrastructure?
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« Reply #23241 on: November 24, 2018, 08:19:56 am »

You haven't said what you want yet?
Would it be Thomas at the helm for the next 10 years, using the goodwill of the clubs supporters to keep the club ticking along in the basement division without any improvement to our decrepit  infrastructure?
Believe it or not Beds exactly the same as you.
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« Reply #23242 on: November 24, 2018, 08:49:06 am »

Calling for the head of the board is a pastime of many a football fan. Driving out the Chairman is frankly the easy bit. Driving in an individual with the attributes and moral fortitude to fulfill the aspirations and ambitions of the supporters is an entirely different challenge.

I am hardly in a position to drive out the Chairman.  In any event, he wants to leave and has been trying to sell the club since April.  I think the reality is that it is DB who wants out and, as I commented in yesterday’s posting, DB owns 90% of Ventures.

I am not a pipe-dreamer but believe our club should be higher up the football ladder.  Beds, who has become the target of some derision on this site, is right in many respects about ambitions, catchment area, untapped support even if his construction economics are suspect.  You can argue, as some have, the football comes first and that with a successful team major investment will follow.  This has not happened or, whatever the truth may be about 5USport, when the opportunity came our owners appear to have either have been duped or messed up badly as far as NTFC is concerned regarding an inflow of long-term funding.  Our owners have never disclosed the truth and no serious questions have been raised. I find this baffling and worrying. 

There are others, like Everbrite, who are simply grateful that KT came to the club’s rescue in its darkest hour since McRitchie.  An understandable sentiment but it is now 3 years later and under the current ownership we have gone backwards rather than forwards. 

Clearly, KT is struggling to find a buyer who will meet his asking price.  That is why a former director +1 terminated discussions.  In addition to the usual overheads any buyer will inherit a wage bill that is probably unsustainable at this level plus the compensation remaining payable to a number of sacked managers and the small matter of the East Stand.  Whether or not the CDNL land is part of the sale package is unknown but this is land that until the Cardoza scandal was within the leasehold boundaries of NTFC.  KT & DB appear to have acquired this land cheaply and I doubt very much that NBC are happy with this opportunism but have been out-manoeuvred by our owners.  KT & DB acquired the club cheaply (quite rightly given its insolvency at the time) but with an implied promise to the Council and the wider public that there was about £4 million available, mostly to complete the East Stand.  The financial commitment of KT/DB was never entirely clear and the Council dismally failed to get a legally binding commitment when approving the take-over. The Council also failed to secure an undertaking for the Trust to be represented on the board of NTFC.  Two opportunities that were lost.  The price we have paid is that KT has been free to run the club as he chooses and his time has been conspicuous for its lack of transparency on the ground, connected land 5USport issues.  As I have said previously, KT makes clever use of a soft local media.

As we enter the fourth year of DB/KT ownership the plain fact is that there has been no progress on the redevelopment.  The Council are not blameless for the current stagnation off the pitch but there is no visible sign of (a) any intent from DB/KT and (b) future infrastructure investment.  That is why I want them to go.
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« Reply #23243 on: November 24, 2018, 10:20:32 am »

.
One thing must be clear to all and that is our present owners have no intention of spending their money on the East Stand (I refer to the illusory promised £3-4 million which seduced a panic stricken Council almost 3 years ago to the day). 

I took a look at Ventures accounts filed at Companies House for the year ended 30.11.2017.  The Chinese investment that never was (or so we are led to believe) was announced in June/July 2017, well within the 2016/17 financial year for Ventures.  No mention in the accounts of any shares changing hands to 5USport or any issue of new shares to reflect the Chinese acquiring a majority stake in Ventures and so a controlling stake in NTFC.  Do we conclude from this with certainty that the Chinese invested nothing?  So, why the announcement and board appointment?  How come there was a sudden rush of signings in July 2017?  Financed by whose money?  JFH would not have come cheaply and was JFH’s appointment Chinese doing?  We’re KT/DB flush with their own money and so splashed out with their bucks for the greater good of the club?  Does this fit squarly with we what we have witnessed over 3 years of KT?DB's ownership with the only works carried out the in-and-outs of the loos in the West Stand?  At the time the Mail on Sunday reported an investment in the region of £6-7 million but that is the only source of reference to the Chinese money I can find and I readily accept anything the Mail reports cannot be relied on with certainty.  All very strange to my way of thinking and unexplained to this day. 

The ownership structure of the club becomes more opaque each passing year.  Ventures (reported to be now 90% owned by Bower) is owned by the offshore company, BVI incorporated Belle de Jour and nothing can be discovered about that company by public scrutiny. 

Transparency is not synonymous with NTFC.  As someone reported on this thread yesterday, CDNL is controlled by DB/KT but silence from our owners continues on their plans for land that was in the club’s leasehold ownership 3 years ago.  As for plans for the East Stand...................dream on.

What was it that Brian Lomax said on the subject of ownership?

With Belle de Jour being incorporated in British Virgin Islands, does that mean that 5USport could have paid the "Mail on Sunday £6M" into Belle de Jour but no one in the UK would know about it ? Is this possible ??
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« Reply #23244 on: November 24, 2018, 10:30:19 am »

What I said was that the accounts of Ventures for the y/e 30 November 2017 filed at Companies House show no inward investment and no issue of shares.  The announcement of the arrival of the Chinese was in June/July 2017 i.e. in the financial y/e 30.11.17.  You have to work out the rest unless that is 5USport did not pay anything and that the club has been funded throughout by the present owners. 
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« Reply #23245 on: November 24, 2018, 13:48:07 pm »

I am hardly in a position to drive out the Chairman.  In any event, he wants to leave and has been trying to sell the club since April.  I think the reality is that it is DB who wants out and, as I commented in yesterday’s posting, DB owns 90% of Ventures.

I am not a pipe-dreamer but believe our club should be higher up the football ladder.  Beds, who has become the target of some derision on this site, is right in many respects about ambitions, catchment area, untapped support even if his construction economics are suspect.  You can argue, as some have, the football comes first and that with a successful team major investment will follow.  This has not happened or, whatever the truth may be about 5USport, when the opportunity came our owners appear to have either have been duped or messed up badly as far as NTFC is concerned regarding an inflow of long-term funding.  Our owners have never disclosed the truth and no serious questions have been raised. I find this baffling and worrying. 

There are others, like Everbrite, who are simply grateful that KT came to the club’s rescue in its darkest hour since McRitchie.  An understandable sentiment but it is now 3 years later and under the current ownership we have gone backwards rather than forwards. 

Clearly, KT is struggling to find a buyer who will meet his asking price.  That is why a former director +1 terminated discussions.  In addition to the usual overheads any buyer will inherit a wage bill that is probably unsustainable at this level plus the compensation remaining payable to a number of sacked managers and the small matter of the East Stand.  Whether or not the CDNL land is part of the sale package is unknown but this is land that until the Cardoza scandal was within the leasehold boundaries of NTFC.  KT & DB appear to have acquired this land cheaply and I doubt very much that NBC are happy with this opportunism but have been out-manoeuvred by our owners.  KT & DB acquired the club cheaply (quite rightly given its insolvency at the time) but with an implied promise to the Council and the wider public that there was about £4 million available, mostly to complete the East Stand.  The financial commitment of KT/DB was never entirely clear and the Council dismally failed to get a legally binding commitment when approving the take-over. The Council also failed to secure an undertaking for the Trust to be represented on the board of NTFC.  Two opportunities that were lost.  The price we have paid is that KT has been free to run the club as he chooses and his time has been conspicuous for its lack of transparency on the ground, connected land 5USport issues.  As I have said previously, KT makes clever use of a soft local media.

As we enter the fourth year of DB/KT ownership the plain fact is that there has been no progress on the redevelopment.  The Council are not blameless for the current stagnation off the pitch but there is no visible sign of (a) any intent from DB/KT and (b) future infrastructure investment.  That is why I want them to go.

Good post. One of the things which really gets my goat is people still proclaiming to 'just being grateful' for KT/DB saving our club. Yes, NBC didn't sufficiently ironclad the paperwork surrounding the deal they struck with KT & his gang, but to be fair that was more to do with the timing of events and the court case looming over the club. Hence, business was done with goodwill and a handshake, and the fundamentals set down in the MOU.

Seriously, you would think NBC might have learned by now; there is little goodwill to be had when dealing with chairmen at NTFC. Let's not forget that Thomas was able to seal the deal to buy the club for just a few bob. He also managed to persuade the council to expunge the debt of 10 million from around the club's throat, but this was on condition that he settled the tax bill (which he did), and then completed the East Stand (which, obviously, he never has).

On top of this, his group then backdoored the council to secure the CDNL leases. Land leases which NBC intended using to recover lost monies owing to residents of Northampton. Nothing illegal being done there, but hardly upstanding business practice either, right?
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« Reply #23246 on: November 24, 2018, 16:56:42 pm »

You haven't said what you want yet?
Would it be Thomas at the helm for the next 10 years,

I would like that.  Grin We could do with some stability  Wink
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« Reply #23247 on: November 24, 2018, 17:22:59 pm »

I would like that.  Grin We could do with some stability  Wink

Stirrer!
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« Reply #23248 on: November 24, 2018, 17:43:07 pm »

Stirrer!
I think that you and I, both know, that you are a hypocrite. And this post confirms that.
As I can predict your next action, please, do not even bother to ask me to explain myself. We both know the answer.
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« Reply #23249 on: November 24, 2018, 18:47:46 pm »

Let's try and keep to topic.  Everbrite once again at the centre of childish exchanges.  Give it a rest or go and play elsewhere.
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« Reply #23250 on: November 25, 2018, 13:14:03 pm »

Let's try and keep to topic.  Everbrite once again at the centre of childish exchanges.  Give it a rest or go and play elsewhere.

I agree with you VC - the comment was aimed in jest at Frank with whom I have an acceptable gentleman’s agreement with. Must admit I was taken aback by the accusation which incidentally I don’t necessarily disagree with.  Perhaps yesterday’s result played its part; had a big sulk afterwards!
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« Reply #23251 on: November 25, 2018, 18:54:56 pm »

I agree with you VC - the comment was aimed in jest at Frank with whom I have an acceptable gentleman’s agreement with. Must admit I was taken aback by the accusation which incidentally I don’t necessarily disagree with.  Perhaps yesterday’s result played its part; had a big sulk afterwards!
Thank you for agreeing with me. No further "bickering" is required from both of us.  Smiley
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« Reply #23252 on: November 26, 2018, 10:22:06 am »

Thank you for agreeing with me. No further "bickering" is required from both of us.  Smiley

Thanks for your reply; your comments are noted.
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« Reply #23253 on: November 26, 2018, 14:35:32 pm »

I agree with you VC - the comment was aimed in jest at Frank with whom I have an acceptable gentleman’s agreement with.

I was deeply offended  Grin
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« Reply #23254 on: November 26, 2018, 15:12:05 pm »

Back on topic. I wish KT would come out and say he will not spend any of the £4 million pounds, he said he had reserved for the completion of the East Stand. The frustration as a fan is the tangling about waiting for news! Has he not sold the club because the price offered did not match his valuation or he thought the people were not good for the future (if we have one!) of NTFC?
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« Reply #23255 on: November 26, 2018, 16:00:23 pm »

Back on topic. I wish KT would come out and say he will not spend any of the £4 million pounds, he said he had reserved for the completion of the East Stand. The frustration as a fan is the tangling about waiting for news! Has he not sold the club because the price offered did not match his valuation or he thought the people were not good for the future (if we have one!) of NTFC?

We know he's had interest because he's been 'open and honest' about meetings with people. What of course we do not know is whether the asking price is the issue. I suspect it is but thats putting two and two together!

I think we all have to accept that the ground is unlikely to get touched much, if at all, by the current owners without outside investors coming in or indeed it being sold completely. Its been pretty obvious that the East Stand is not a priority since the Chinese debacle, and for the cynical ones amongst us a long time before that.

Im sure he's still talking with people who may come in, but quite frankly with the club up for sale you'd kind of expect that to be the case. All we can do is wait and see.

We are a long way off 'direct action', which I've seen the very odd mention of. He's paying the bills, the club is losing a lot of money each month because of the huge wage bill which they are clearly covering. I hope, like most of us, that he finds someone to take it on and said person/group finally 'delivers'. That said person has local interests and isn't just here for a direct return on investment. That latter is the key point; lets face it, and this is where I disagree with Beds on...NTFC isn't an investable entity in my books. It needs millions upon millions thrown at it to make that step from lower tier club to a higher tier one. 30 million. 40 million? Pluck a figure. A gradual investment strategy by Trust/similar owners will in my mind just mean that less money is spent on the team, then income goes down etc. Cant win.

Its all VERY frustrating.

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« Reply #23256 on: November 26, 2018, 16:13:23 pm »

Back on topic. I wish KT would come out and say he will not spend any of the £4 million pounds, he said he had reserved for the completion of the East Stand. The frustration as a fan is the tangling about waiting for news! Has he not sold the club because the price offered did not match his valuation or he thought the people were not good for the future (if we have one!) of NTFC?

ZZZZZ
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« Reply #23257 on: November 26, 2018, 16:15:15 pm »

I was deeply offended  Grin

You rotter😇

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« Reply #23258 on: November 26, 2018, 16:20:21 pm »

ZZZZZ
Look in a mirror Everbrite! At least I have not 'ZZZZZ'd 12470 times!!!
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« Reply #23259 on: November 26, 2018, 16:21:40 pm »

We know he's had interest because he's been 'open and honest' about meetings with people. What of course we do not know is whether the asking price is the issue. I suspect it is but thats putting two and two together!

I think we all have to accept that the ground is unlikely to get touched much, if at all, by the current owners without outside investors coming in or indeed it being sold completely. Its been pretty obvious that the East Stand is not a priority since the Chinese debacle, and for the cynical ones amongst us a long time before that.

Im sure he's still talking with people who may come in, but quite frankly with the club up for sale you'd kind of expect that to be the case. All we can do is wait and see.

We are a long way off 'direct action', which I've seen the very odd mention of. He's paying the bills, the club is losing a lot of money each month because of the huge wage bill which they are clearly covering. I hope, like most of us, that he finds someone to take it on and said person/group finally 'delivers'. That said person has local interests and isn't just here for a direct return on investment. That latter is the key point; lets face it, and this is where I disagree with Beds on...NTFC isn't an investable entity in my books. It needs millions upon millions thrown at it to make that step from lower tier club to a higher tier one. 30 million. 40 million? Pluck a figure. A gradual investment strategy by Trust/similar owners will in my mind just mean that less money is spent on the team, then income goes down etc. Cant win.

Its all VERY frustrating.


If we have a good enough team aided by promising youth team players we won’t need millions? Just expand the two end stands which won’t be £30mill
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