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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1018498 times)
barton cobbler
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« Reply #23640 on: January 02, 2019, 11:57:55 am »

I think that a fans run/fans influenced club could work and be the way forward.......then I read some of the posts on here.......and suddenly I have my doubts!
Grin
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« Reply #23641 on: January 02, 2019, 19:17:30 pm »

Problem is for someone to lead so the others follow, the Leader has to have a plan.   Yours is so vague and lacking in detail it is in my eyes incapable of being taken seriously.

I can only speak for myself personally. I would only countenance a fans led take over if:

1 They could demonstrate significant funding.I would only even consider deviating from this if I thought we were about to go into Administration. The present owners business plan is they want to sell for the maximum price. They will therefore support the club in the short term, if only for their own ambitions.

2 A clear business plan is put forward. Where is the funding coming from, on what basis? No waffle. A plan that could be presented to a Bank who would buy into the view that would advance NTFC as a viable business., sufficiently enough that they would provide significant funding to cover medium term losses. Say for example relegation from the football league.

3. A clear Management structure. Detailed CVs. Who is responsible for what. I am firmly against management by committee. In my view it rarely if ever works.

I accept I am to a degree of asking too much too soon but you are asking us to take a leap of faith. I do not know your and your backers sufficiently well to be able to support this


Continuing to play along with “fantasy football club ownership” I will say this again for the h@rdcore enthusiasts. The only way you will ever obtain funding from the banks would be if you had the cast iron collateral to underwrite the loan. Further to this even that would not guarantee the funding. I know many struggle with this concept but this comes from having been in the position professionally on multiple occasions. As a result it is difficult for me to convey on here the enormity of what this concept entails in reality. How and why do you think the last lot were able to justify the need to use the council last time? The reason they were not told to p1ss off and use the banks is that this would be akin to asking for the money from the cat. In fact I would go as far as to say obtaining millions in investment without collateral is right up there with putting a man on the moon. Hope this once again clears this up?
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« Reply #23642 on: January 02, 2019, 21:13:53 pm »

You do know that the football club generates around £4m of income without trying too hard without any business plans for growth, only stagnation
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« Reply #23643 on: January 02, 2019, 21:57:51 pm »

You do know that the football club generates around £4m of income without trying too hard without any business plans for growth, only stagnation

Genuine question Random. Hypothetically you run a business that consistently has a turnover of around 4 million. Assume your profit margin is also consistently in excess of 20% year on year which currently dwarfs that of NTFC. Now assume you also have tangible assets that exceed 1 million that you were prepared to offer as collaral on any loan.Then assume you went to let’s say Barclays and the RBS. What do you imagine you would be typically offered as an overdraft facility? I would be interested to hear your estimation?
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« Reply #23644 on: January 02, 2019, 22:21:10 pm »

Continuing to play along with “fantasy football club ownership” I will say this again for the h@rdcore enthusiasts. The only way you will ever obtain funding from the banks would be if you had the cast iron collateral to underwrite the loan. Further to this even that would not guarantee the funding. I know many struggle with this concept but this comes from having been in the position professionally on multiple occasions. As a result it is difficult for me to convey on here the enormity of what this concept entails in reality. How and why do you think the last lot were able to justify the need to use the council last time? The reason they were not told to p1ss off and use the banks is that this would be akin to asking for the money from the cat. In fact I would go as far as to say obtaining millions in investment without collateral is right up there with putting a man on the moon. Hope this once again clears this up?
At no time did Thomas or the Cardozas pull millions out from their personal bank accounts to use for investment into the football club, so why do you think all of sudden we would need a vast amount of bank loans in order for any new owners/ consortium/ supporters run club to take the next step?
It would need a big push to entice 1500 lapsed fans to return and be joined by 1500 new recruits to get on board  in a stadium that is being redeveloped in stages with the help of dozens of local buisneses and well wishers making things happen.
I fully understand your blinkered point of view that things will remain at the same low point as it is now, but you must not underestimate how easily momentum builds when a Town and catchment find a genuine sense of pride and a belief in a local club and its efforts to rebuild its infrastructure.

If Northampton town fc had some real direction with genuine well publiced development plans that supporters can actully see and gives the stadium a professional outlook, they will back it to the hilt.
Our lowly football club with its 1980s facilities is not going attract bids in the millions so hopefully Thomas will off soon and the club able to finally see some steady growth.

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« Reply #23645 on: January 02, 2019, 22:53:00 pm »

At no time did Thomas or the Cardozas pull millions out from their personal bank accounts to use for investment into the football club, so why do you think all of sudden we would need a vast amount of bank loans in order for any new owners/ consortium/ supporters run club to take the next step?
It would need a big push to entice 1500 lapsed fans to return and be joined by 1500 new recruits to get on board  in a stadium that is being redeveloped in stages with the help of dozens of local buisneses and well wishers making things happen.
I fully understand your blinkered point of view that things will remain at the same low point as it is now, but you must not underestimate how easily momentum builds when a Town and catchment find a genuine sense of pride and a belief in a local club and its efforts to rebuild its infrastructure.

If Northampton town fc had some real direction with genuine well publiced development plans that supporters can actully see and gives the stadium a professional outlook, they will back it to the hilt.
Our lowly football club with its 1980s facilities is not going attract bids in the millions so hopefully Thomas will off soon and the club able to finally see some steady growth.



No, but Melbourne's point is they were able to show they had those financial resources set aside, thus making them a safer bet. Given NTFC's poor credit rating (post Cardoza) and lack of tangible assets, any talk of fan ownership is pie in the sky without some deep pocketed fans willing to risk their own wealth.
Get real. The club doesn't even own a ground FFS!
If Pompey's (far greater numbers of) fans had defaulted on the club's debts, at least the Fratton Park footprint presented financial return on any accrued debt.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 22:55:25 pm by JollyCobbler » Report Spam   Logged
Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #23646 on: January 02, 2019, 23:18:59 pm »

You do know that the football club generates around £4m of income without trying too hard without any business plans for growth, only stagnation


That is a totally pointless statement. Unless you know it’s operation costs.



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« Reply #23647 on: January 03, 2019, 03:54:00 am »

At no time did Thomas or the Cardozas pull millions out from their personal bank accounts to use for investment into the football club, so why do you think all of sudden we would need a vast amount of bank loans in order for any new owners/ consortium/ supporters run club to take the next step?
It would need a big push to entice 1500 lapsed fans to return and be joined by 1500 new recruits to get on board  in a stadium that is being redeveloped in stages with the help of dozens of local buisneses and well wishers making things happen.
I fully understand your blinkered point of view that things will remain at the same low point as it is now, but you must not underestimate how easily momentum builds when a Town and catchment find a genuine sense of pride and a belief in a local club and its efforts to rebuild its infrastructure.

If Northampton town fc had some real direction with genuine well publiced development plans that supporters can actully see and gives the stadium a professional outlook, they will back it to the hilt.
Our lowly football club with its 1980s facilities is not going attract bids in the millions so hopefully Thomas will off soon and the club able to finally see some steady growth.


I don’t, I just brought up the banking theme because it was mentioned again in the post I responded to. Random then mentioned the 4 million turnover like it has some bearing or relevance on my point. It doesn’t, hope this helps with the confusion?
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« Reply #23648 on: January 03, 2019, 12:27:00 pm »

Melbourne, i like your posts because you know what youre talking about, although I think you will struggle to get the message across.
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« Reply #23649 on: January 03, 2019, 13:49:18 pm »

The trust have pledged to assess fan ownership in a recent statement, so the wheat will be sorted from the chaff soon regarding that topic.
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« Reply #23650 on: January 03, 2019, 14:14:25 pm »

Can I just re-iterate:

We have local councils who are in special measures due to failure of Fiscal Management.

No way will any Goverrnment body give NTFC any land or money.

Be grateful that NTFC still has a ground to play in.

Those who want more......  Buy the land, and lease it back to the club.....   Go on..... Do it, else shut the f@ up.  (Aparently, you only have to troll up to a bank and ask for £xM..... yes?Huh?)

(For those who say the club should do blah-di-blah..... get a business plan together & do it yourselves.....  You will be on to a multi-million-pound payout, as well as being the heroes of of NTFC !!!!!  )

Big hugs, my keyboard fantasists!

Spot on. Not sure what all the fuss is about i am sure kt and the board are doing everything they can within the current restraints of the post dc mess.

No talk of buckets yet. Poor management and players are the problem. We can't fill the groynd we have now so whats the rush with the east stand. Get things right on the pitch first and then maybe we will need the extra space.
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« Reply #23651 on: January 03, 2019, 14:43:20 pm »

Sorry but turnover is quite relevant in today's business world. Snapchat for example has investors and massive debts, has lost $1 billion, there are loads of examples out there of companies losing many millions per year yet have bank funding.

The £4m also demonstrates that there is income so some flexibility in how u spend it.

The general divide in fans over ownership seems to come down to those like wattie who think that players and management are the problem, and me and others who think it is ownership and infrastructure

The fact that we had great management and players just 3 years ago yet here we are struggling to stay in the football league, with the same owner and infrastructure would suggest that is where the problem lies.


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« Reply #23652 on: January 03, 2019, 14:47:46 pm »

Melbourne, i like your posts because you know what youre talking about, although I think you will struggle to get the message across.


 Grin

But he gets 9/10 for trying Cool
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23653 on: January 03, 2019, 14:56:06 pm »

Spot on. Not sure what all the fuss is about i am sure kt and the board are doing everything they can within the current restraints of the post dc mess.

No talk of buckets yet. Poor management and players are the problem. We can't fill the groynd we have now so whats the rush with the east stand. Get things right on the pitch first and then maybe we will need the extra space.

Cheers Kelvin. Hope Florida is nice this time of year and that Bower is catching some good rays in Dubai.  Grin
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« Reply #23654 on: January 03, 2019, 17:48:05 pm »

Cheers Kelvin. Hope Florida is nice this time of year and that Bower is catching some good rays in Dubai.  Grin

I couldn't help thinking the same. Wink Grin
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« Reply #23655 on: January 03, 2019, 17:55:14 pm »

Spot on. Not sure what all the fuss is about i am sure kt and the board are doing everything they can within the current restraints of the post dc mess.

No talk of buckets yet. Poor management and players are the problem. We can't fill the groynd we have now so whats the rush with the east stand. Get things right on the pitch first and then maybe we will need the extra space.
And just who employed the 5 managers since Wilder?.
The only thing KT And DB are trying hard to do is line their pockets and fooK off ASAP.
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Rule Britannia
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« Reply #23656 on: January 03, 2019, 18:39:31 pm »

And just who employed the 5 managers since Wilder?.
The only thing KT And DB are trying hard to do is line their pockets and fooK off ASAP.


They won't be going anywhere for a long time. This football club isn't an attractive proposition for anyone.
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« Reply #23657 on: January 03, 2019, 22:22:37 pm »

Sorry but turnover is quite relevant in today's business world. Snapchat for example has investors and massive debts, has lost $1 billion, there are loads of examples out there of companies losing many millions per year yet have bank funding.

The £4m also demonstrates that there is income so some flexibility in how u spend it.

The general divide in fans over ownership seems to come down to those like wattie who think that players and management are the problem, and me and others who think it is ownership and infrastructure

The fact that we had great management and players just 3 years ago yet here we are struggling to stay in the football league, with the same owner and infrastructure would suggest that is where the problem lies.



Being in the today’s business world running a business Ill try to improve your commercial awareness by advising the following. If your operating costs are equivalent or greater than your turnover or if you have poor cashflow you have no flexibility whatsoever. Turnover is absolutely irrelevant. I would also say that most problems in football come from financial mismanagement and nativity. You are also wrong in that many supporters think that the issues with the club are both on and off the pitch, not one or the other The issue many have with the off the pitch aspirations on here is that they are unrealistic and unachievable. This often detracts from sensible conversations regarding the direction of the club, not that we have much chance of doing anything about it. By the way the answer to my earlier post which you chose to ignore for fear of saying something silly is 150k maximum. And only then if you embark on some nonsense bank serving practice like factored invoicing. As ridiculous and unbelievable that sounds, that’s a fact by the way, not opinion.
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« Reply #23658 on: January 03, 2019, 22:39:21 pm »


The only thing KT And DB are trying hard to do is line their pockets and fooK off ASAP.


With such comments you invite potential legal activity. Why dont you reign in a bit; its common knowledge how you feel so why continue to repeat it.
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« Reply #23659 on: January 03, 2019, 23:08:37 pm »

Being in the today’s business world running a business Ill try to improve your commercial awareness by advising the following. If your operating costs are equivalent or greater than your turnover or if you have poor cashflow you have no flexibility whatsoever. Turnover is absolutely irrelevant. I would also say that most problems in football come from financial mismanagement and nativity. You are also wrong in that many supporters think that the issues with the club are both on and off the pitch, not one or the other The issue many have with the off the pitch aspirations on here is that they are unrealistic and unachievable. This often detracts from sensible conversations regarding the direction of the club, not that we have much chance of doing anything about it. By the way the answer to my earlier post which you chose to ignore for fear of saying something silly is 150k maximum. And only then if you embark on some nonsense bank serving practice like factored invoicing. As ridiculous and unbelievable that sounds, that’s a fact by the way, not opinion.
Being so adverse to taking any risks is not going to get any ones  buisness very far.
You being 'in today's buisness world, running buisneses' should really know this.
Yes you need A bit working capitol and some collateral, so a club our size run closely and openly with its population, playing on a modern atmospheric stadium  should be looking to have a £5m a year turn over.

But if like you say we continue to promote extreme caution like we have done these past 20 years of zero growth, it has infact lost the club £2m a year and unable to earn from the transfer market.
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