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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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« Reply #23680 on: January 04, 2019, 12:56:55 pm »

I am not comparing NTFC to any of those companies, again same old story on here. You just cannot win as most just take one aspect of your post in complete isolation and pick it to pieces.

WHILST OFFERING NO THOUGHTS OR IDEALS OF THEIR OWN

Melbourne was basically saying that you HAVE to make a profit to get funding, this simply is not true as the examples of snapchat, twitter etc prove without a shade of a doubt. I am not saying it is right, I find it unbelievable that these companies raise hundreds of millions of dollars because they 
give away a free service to a lot of people, so have their information.

Technically most football clubs actually operate illegally, if they were any other type of business they would have closed down a long time ago, most operate insolvent, mostly because of an insane business model relating to players and management, which is driven by fans lust for new players and instant success.

I have business credentials but running a football club is quite unique. My business plan would revolve around asking the fans for patience whilst the club develops a medium term strategy for growth, which would mean not sacking managers and players every 5 minutes, would forge togetherness, hard work and attention to every single detail. Everyones job at the club would be to 1. Attract more first time fans, 2. Get those who come 1 / 2 times per season to come 6 /7 times, those who come 6/7 to be 12/13 and those 12/13 to be season ticket holders and finally season ticket holders to spend more money at the club. It would also be to increase every fans spending with NTFC through merchandise, sponsorship, or corporate, or more games etc

I will get shot down again but here goes, get ready to be upset again....... current season ticket holders and so most on here are not that important to the growth of the club   Who agrees? Who knows why I say that?  Melbourne, Hammy, Tcobb, GPC etc please let me know
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« Reply #23681 on: January 04, 2019, 13:00:50 pm »

 Ironically it turns out that you are probably the greatest asset KT and his cronies have on here.

It's a funny old world but exactly my thoughts - the accusation of us of being sheep, sucking up to KT whilst proffering a plan in idea only seem to miss the point.

I'm bored with saying it but without a solid business plan, real backers with real investment capability nothing will happen - ideally a collective (so more than one person) and ideally those that have a real love of the club (so acquisition & speculation is not the main objective) .

I'm glad you have politely bitten back re your own business acumen and whilst I cannot claim your achievement of it being my own business, myself heading a 200m pa business with 400 employees would suggest I'm not totally stupid in recognizing flawed plans.  
 
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« Reply #23682 on: January 04, 2019, 13:06:40 pm »


Technically most football clubs actually operate illegally, if they were any other type of business they would have closed down a long time ago, most operate insolvent, mostly because of an insane business model relating to players and management, which is driven by fans lust for new players and instant success.

I have business credentials but running a football club is quite unique. My business plan would revolve around asking the fans for patience whilst the club develops a medium term strategy for growth, which would mean not sacking managers and players every 5 minutes, would forge togetherness, hard work and attention to every single detail. Everyones job at the club would be to 1. Attract more first time fans, 2. Get those who come 1 / 2 times per season to come 6 /7 times, those who come 6/7 to be 12/13 and those 12/13 to be season ticket holders and finally season ticket holders to spend more money at the club. It would also be to increase every fans spending with NTFC through merchandise, sponsorship, or corporate, or more games etc


Not sure about being illegal but you are right football finance is typically lunacy when compared with "normal" businesses

100% agree with the sentiment of your next paragraph but with respect it's not a business plan - maybe a strategy based on common sense and the desire for a progressive club but you are unlikely to attract meaningful investment simply on that - and that sadly is why it hasn't happened.
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« Reply #23683 on: January 04, 2019, 13:31:24 pm »

It's a funny old world but exactly my thoughts - the accusation of us of being sheep, sucking up to KT whilst proffering a plan in idea only seem to miss the point.

I'm bored with saying it but without a solid business plan, real backers with real investment capability nothing will happen - ideally a collective (so more than one person) and ideally those that have a real love of the club (so acquisition & speculation is not the main objective) .

I'm glad you have politely bitten back re your own business acumen and whilst I cannot claim your achievement of it being my own business, myself heading a 200m pa business with 400 employees would suggest I'm not totally stupid in recognizing flawed plans.  
 

Indeed not
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« Reply #23684 on: January 04, 2019, 13:35:23 pm »

It is illegal to run a business that is insolvent, ie must be able to pay your expenses.

You keep asking for a business plan but how on earth can we provide much information without the accounts / financials ?

The business plan IS as I said, employee the best you can afford, create a real community, and basically understand what a football club has / is

Little things make a big difference and those differences add up to value in the eyes of the customer, creates loyalty and support, increases spending.

With the right people and systems in place it can be achieved although you will be battling deep entrenched attitudes and systems.

One example is stewarding. There should be two types of stewards  1: Most are customer services representing the club, helping the fans enjoy their experience. They are front line and should be far more valued, they have direct contact with the customers and are a great opportunity to enhance the fans view of the club   2. The 'bouncers' These should be out the way until needed not front line NOT representing the club to 'normal' fans.

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« Reply #23685 on: January 04, 2019, 13:38:48 pm »

My previous point seems to have been missed. The Trust are now going to seriously investigate fan ownership. So you'll see a bit of meat added to the bones of well meaning discussion on here.
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« Reply #23686 on: January 04, 2019, 13:43:47 pm »

My previous point seems to have been missed. The Trust are now going to seriously investigate fan ownership. So you'll see a bit of meat added to the bones of well meaning discussion on here.
This is taken from their Facebook page on Wednesday:

The second day of any new year is always a poignant one in the Trust calendar - on this day in 1992 NTFC Supporters Trust, the original football supporters trust, was born.
As we enter our 28th year, we hope that the frustrations and disappointments of 2018 will transform into a more hopeful and positive 2019 on and off the field.
The Trust has a number of goals this year and we would love your support, input and feedback to help us on our way.
We are hopeful of a breakthrough which will enable the east stand at Sixfields to finally be re-developed.
And while we understand that much of the detail of the negotiation between the council and football club is commercially sensitive, we think it is only fair for supporters to be given a meaningful position statement in terms of the scale of the intended development at Sixfields and a likely timescale.
The end of the Cardoza reign was unsatisfactorily shrouded by an all-encompassing veil of confidentiality - for reasons which then soon became painfully apparent.
We are quite clear in our view that we feel that any development on the Sixfields footprint should be for community benefit, along the lines of the original plans when the community stadium was built for the people of Northampton in 1994.
We are delighted that the stadium has been listed as an asset of community value but will be pressing the council to afford the same status to the surrounding land too.
We have also pledged to explore the idea of a fan ownership model for Northampton Town and will be reporting back on this shortly.
We admit that this presents many challenges and that it could only be reasonably done on the back of significant financial investment in the club.
Please join in the debate over the coming weeks and months, we would welcome any constructive views on the subject.
Finally, we are looking to communicate more effectively with the membership and the fanbase.
Many say they only hear from the Trust when the AGM mailout falls through the letterbox - it should be pointed out that we aim to keep mailing costs at a minimum.
But we are hoping to issue regular updates via email and social media, as well as holding open forums when applicable.
Any support you can give us would be much appreciated - while the club appears to be on a stable footing at present, we all know that rainy days never seem to be far away.
Up the Cobblers!


https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust
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« Reply #23687 on: January 04, 2019, 13:51:37 pm »

It is illegal to run a business that is insolvent, ie must be able to pay your expenses.

You keep asking for a business plan but how on earth can we provide much information without the accounts / financials ?

The business plan IS as I said, employee the best you can afford, create a real community, and basically understand what a football club has / is

Little things make a big difference and those differences add up to value in the eyes of the customer, creates loyalty and support, increases spending.

With the right people and systems in place it can be achieved although you will be battling deep entrenched attitudes and systems.

One example is stewarding. There should be two types of stewards  1: Most are customer services representing the club, helping the fans enjoy their experience. They are front line and should be far more valued, they have direct contact with the customers and are a great opportunity to enhance the fans view of the club   2. The 'bouncers' These should be out the way until needed not front line NOT representing the club to 'normal' fans.



Not quite true because the Football club has been insolvent for several years. That is why it requires the financial support of its shareholders to continue training. That is perfectly legal.

The issue is that a business plan must be drawn up to replace this backing if a fans led takeover is to proceed. Indeed that is true of any new owners. Failure to do so could render any New directors and any individuals of significant control personally liable for all the debts incurred.

My estimate would be thatTaking into account the share purchase cost,(£2M) cost of reconstruction i.e cancellation of contracts redundancies etc(£0.25M) covering the anticipated losses the financial year(£0.5M). providing Working Capital (£.5M)and a very basic completion of the East Stand(£1M) . The new owners would either have to inject this sum or at least provide guarantees to that level.
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« Reply #23688 on: January 04, 2019, 14:00:51 pm »

This is taken from their Facebook page on Wednesday:

The second day of any new year is always a poignant one in the Trust calendar - on this day in 1992 NTFC Supporters Trust, the original football supporters trust, was born.
As we enter our 28th year, we hope that the frustrations and disappointments of 2018 will transform into a more hopeful and positive 2019 on and off the field.
The Trust has a number of goals this year and we would love your support, input and feedback to help us on our way.
We are hopeful of a breakthrough which will enable the east stand at Sixfields to finally be re-developed.
And while we understand that much of the detail of the negotiation between the council and football club is commercially sensitive, we think it is only fair for supporters to be given a meaningful position statement in terms of the scale of the intended development at Sixfields and a likely timescale.
The end of the Cardoza reign was unsatisfactorily shrouded by an all-encompassing veil of confidentiality - for reasons which then soon became painfully apparent.
We are quite clear in our view that we feel that any development on the Sixfields footprint should be for community benefit, along the lines of the original plans when the community stadium was built for the people of Northampton in 1994.
We are delighted that the stadium has been listed as an asset of community value but will be pressing the council to afford the same status to the surrounding land too.
We have also pledged to explore the idea of a fan ownership model for Northampton Town and will be reporting back on this shortly.
We admit that this presents many challenges and that it could only be reasonably done on the back of significant financial investment in the club.
Please join in the debate over the coming weeks and months, we would welcome any constructive views on the subject.
Finally, we are looking to communicate more effectively with the membership and the fanbase.
Many say they only hear from the Trust when the AGM mailout falls through the letterbox - it should be pointed out that we aim to keep mailing costs at a minimum.
But we are hoping to issue regular updates via email and social media, as well as holding open forums when applicable.
Any support you can give us would be much appreciated - while the club appears to be on a stable footing at present, we all know that rainy days never seem to be far away.
Up the Cobblers!


https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust

does the trust know what support it requires?  not all of us want to sit round a table every month chewing the fat, plenty of us probably have skills and experience or time to dip in now and again to achieve specific objectives.  knowing what support is required might generate more volunteers. 

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« Reply #23689 on: January 04, 2019, 14:02:01 pm »

Not quite true because the Football club has been insolvent for several years. That is why it requires the financial support of its shareholders to continue training. That is perfectly legal.

The issue is that a business plan must be drawn up to replace this backing if a fans led takeover is to proceed. Indeed that is true of any new owners. Failure to do so could render any New directors and any individuals of significant control personally liable for all the debts incurred.

My estimate would be thatTaking into account the share purchase cost,(£2M) cost of reconstruction i.e cancellation of contracts redundancies etc(£0.25M) covering the anticipated losses the financial year(£0.5M). providing Working Capital (£.5M)and a very basic completion of the East Stand(£1M) . The new owners would either have to inject this sum or at least provide guarantees to that level.

Some good points but let's leave the estimates out for now. They might be on the money or nowhere near.
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« Reply #23690 on: January 04, 2019, 14:04:58 pm »

does the trust know what support it requires?  not all of us want to sit round a table every month chewing the fat, plenty of us probably have skills and experience or time to dip in now and again to achieve specific objectives.  knowing what support is required might generate more volunteers. 



Sure that info will be forthcoming soon Fernando but you are right the skill set of the fan base is something that is massively under utilised by the club.
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« Reply #23691 on: January 04, 2019, 14:10:01 pm »

Nice that the Trust are setting some goals. Just a couple of points,
 maybe the Trust should mail their membership more often, "keeping costs down" is not a reason for not communicating. Very pleased that the Ground has become a community asset, not sure why the surrounding land needs to be though, is that what the fan base want ? I have no problem the Trust looking at the possibility of fan ownership, but the fan base as a whole need to be consulated on this very important matter, not just a few.
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« Reply #23692 on: January 04, 2019, 14:13:16 pm »

Nice that the Trust are setting some goals. Just a couple of points,
 maybe the club should mail their membership more often, "keeping costs down" is not a reason for not communicating. Very pleased that the Ground has become a community asset, not sure why the surrounding land needs to be though, is that what the fan base want ? I have no problem the Trust looking at the possibility of fan ownership, but the fan base as a whole need to be consulated on this very important matter, not just a few.

I agree.

I think Fenners suggested asking ALL supporters and I'd fully agree with that.
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« Reply #23693 on: January 04, 2019, 14:38:15 pm »

I've every sympathy with Melbourne's stance.

I have plenty of experience that is very relevant to this debate. I'm in no position to invest, but I am more than qualified to contribute to a sensible discussion in this or another forum.

Unfortunately, sensible discussion just doesn't prevail here. Even in the last few pages there are numerous examples of unsubstantiated conjecture (at best) being presented as fact. Worse though, the same few voices shout long and loud, aggressively stamping out any attempt to point out the flaws in their logic.

We should all bounce ideas around, but when a statement is plain wrong it should be called out as such. If we let pipe dreams and loud but unqualified opinions/advice dominate the discussion, we won't get anywhere. Realism has to win out, otherwise we're only here to argue with each other rather than contribute to something actually happening.



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« Reply #23694 on: January 04, 2019, 14:43:39 pm »

Some good points but let's leave the estimates out for now. They might be on the money or nowhere near.

Agreed although the information I have and indeed shared on here before is that they are close to figures. Either way until you have that kind of support /backing you will not get access to the full figures. Its uo to those wanting to take this on that they have this level of support.
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« Reply #23695 on: January 04, 2019, 14:43:58 pm »

This is taken from their Facebook page on Wednesday:

The second day of any new year is always a poignant one in the Trust calendar - on this day in 1992 NTFC Supporters Trust, the original football supporters trust, was born.
As we enter our 28th year, we hope that the frustrations and disappointments of 2018 will transform into a more hopeful and positive 2019 on and off the field.
The Trust has a number of goals this year and we would love your support, input and feedback to help us on our way.
We are hopeful of a breakthrough which will enable the east stand at Sixfields to finally be re-developed.
And while we understand that much of the detail of the negotiation between the council and football club is commercially sensitive, we think it is only fair for supporters to be given a meaningful position statement in terms of the scale of the intended development at Sixfields and a likely timescale.
The end of the Cardoza reign was unsatisfactorily shrouded by an all-encompassing veil of confidentiality - for reasons which then soon became painfully apparent.
We are quite clear in our view that we feel that any development on the Sixfields footprint should be for community benefit, along the lines of the original plans when the community stadium was built for the people of Northampton in 1994.
We are delighted that the stadium has been listed as an asset of community value but will be pressing the council to afford the same status to the surrounding land too.
We have also pledged to explore the idea of a fan ownership model for Northampton Town and will be reporting back on this shortly.
We admit that this presents many challenges and that it could only be reasonably done on the back of significant financial investment in the club.
Please join in the debate over the coming weeks and months, we would welcome any constructive views on the subject.
Finally, we are looking to communicate more effectively with the membership and the fanbase.
Many say they only hear from the Trust when the AGM mailout falls through the letterbox - it should be pointed out that we aim to keep mailing costs at a minimum.
But we are hoping to issue regular updates via email and social media, as well as holding open forums when applicable.
Any support you can give us would be much appreciated - while the club appears to be on a stable footing at present, we all know that rainy days never seem to be far away.
Up the Cobblers!


https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust
The statement says 'We are hopeful of a breakthrough', could you please state why or who gave you that hope! ie; from the Council, from the owners or just blind hopefullness?

Supporters have had so much crap given to them over the past decade plus that they deserve some clarity, even if it is to say no news for 1 month, 1 year or a decade!!!

The support Cobblers fans still give the club is fantastic BUT they need a banner to get behind to show the direction to go..................I think it is called leadership!

Maybe like minded fans (with relevant skills) should contact the Trust to move forward the current situation, to the benefit of our beloved NTFC.
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« Reply #23696 on: January 04, 2019, 14:49:43 pm »

Agreed although the information I have and indeed shared on here before is that they are close to figures. Either way until you have that kind of support /backing you will not get access to the full figures. Its uo to those wanting to take this on that they have this level of support.

Yep fair play. the Trust is there to represent its members and I'm sure will address the subject with the requisite seriousness and communication.
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« Reply #23697 on: January 04, 2019, 14:55:05 pm »

Maybe the Trust should mail their membership more often, "keeping costs down" is not a reason for not communicating.
I agree.

Here's a trial email shot I put together for them from their Facebook posts in January (minus the Justin Edinburgh part of it Grin): https://mailchi.mp/2a7683ef9152/january-2019-newsletter

I've let the board know and they seem pretty keen on making it a monthly email to members.

Any feedback would be welcome via PM, especially any kind of features people would like to see, what they want to know each month from the Trust etc. That way I can help inform them on this moving forwards.
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« Reply #23698 on: January 04, 2019, 15:06:54 pm »

Melbourne was basically saying that you HAVE to make a profit to get funding, this simply is not true as the examples of snapchat, twitter etc prove without a shade of a doubt.
Once again the lines of communication appear to have broken down. To reiterate what I said was that the ability to obtain credit is directly related to the confidence the creditor has in their ability to recover the return on their investment from the debtor. So basically I didnít say anything of the sort.
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« Reply #23699 on: January 04, 2019, 15:17:23 pm »

It is illegal to run a business that is insolvent, ie must be able to pay your expenses.

You keep asking for a business plan but how on earth can we provide much information without the accounts / financials ?

The business plan IS as I said, employee the best you can afford, create a real community, and basically understand what a football club has / is

Little things make a big difference and those differences add up to value in the eyes of the customer, creates loyalty and support, increases spending.

With the right people and systems in place it can be achieved although you will be battling deep entrenched attitudes and systems.

One example is stewarding. There should be two types of stewards  1: Most are customer services representing the club, helping the fans enjoy their experience. They are front line and should be far more valued, they have direct contact with the customers and are a great opportunity to enhance the fans view of the club   2. The 'bouncers' These should be out the way until needed not front line NOT representing the club to 'normal' fans.



Not being petty  Smiley  but insolvency is the state of not being able to pay your debt which actually does not have a legal status - it is only when declared bankrupt (a measure to remedy insolvency) that it becomes illegal to trade.

Again I agree with your next point that you cannot have a meaningful business plan without access to the business's financial (a massive amount of guesswork on these boards on this subject by all parties) - but this is the problem given KT is the legitimate owner of NTFC and simply getting cross with him is going to achieve nothing  - a group, working along some of the very reasonable lines you suggest has to negotiate with him but the $64,000 question is who what and when..............  
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