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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Zen Master
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« Reply #23740 on: January 04, 2019, 08:47:34 am »

Fancy buying a football club Melbourne?
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet
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« Reply #23741 on: January 04, 2019, 09:01:23 am »

Fancy buying a football club Melbourne?


I was about to say the same thing, if not that then would you want to be involved in any supporter run club. It's not like our owners now are living locally so the distance isn't a major issue!
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« Reply #23742 on: January 04, 2019, 09:16:56 am »


I was about to say the same thing, if not that then would you want to be involved in any supporter run club. It's not like our owners now are living locally so the distance isn't a major issue!
All, if I felt I had anywhere near the resources to make a difference and was able to perform a hands on role I would love to. I am in a position to do neither. Additionally I was put off any fantasies on this score a while ago by some of the commentary on here. I am still an advocate of the German model to be honest. Itís far from perfect and has its drawbacks but is far the best option IMO. That rules out significant private ownership anyway. In terms of corporate involvement I am in a 50% partnership, the other half of which firmly believes football club ownership is for the insane, and Iím inclined to agree. So in summary heart says yes, head says no, and I always listen exclusively to the top bit.
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« Reply #23743 on: January 04, 2019, 09:29:29 am »

All, if I felt I had anywhere near the resources to make a difference and was able to perform a hands on role I would love to. I am in a position to do neither. Additionally I was put off any fantasies on this score a while ago by some of the commentary on here. I am still an advocate of the German model to be honest. Itís far from perfect and has its drawbacks but is far the best option IMO. That rules out significant private ownership anyway. In terms of corporate involvement I am in a 50% partnership, the other half of which firmly believes football club ownership is for the insane, and Iím inclined to agree. So in summary heart says yes, head says no, and I always listen exclusively to the top bit.

I have to say I agree with you, my comments very much tongue in cheek, I also think the German model is the way forward. I talk regularly to an old work colleague of mine who is involved with the Trust at Wrexham and since they took over the club the fans seem to be enjoying their football a lot more than when privately owned. I also see the problems when you have a supporters trust member on the board as my cousin is the Supporters trust member on the board at Grimsby and I am afraid your damned if you do and damned if you don't on that one, which is why if we are to have fan involvement I would rather see a fan owned club.
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« Reply #23744 on: January 04, 2019, 10:09:13 am »

I have to say I agree with you, my comments very much tongue in cheek, I also think the German model is the way forward. I talk regularly to an old work colleague of mine who is involved with the Trust at Wrexham and since they took over the club the fans seem to be enjoying their football a lot more than when privately owned. I also see the problems when you have a supporters trust member on the board as my cousin is the Supporters trust member on the board at Grimsby and I am afraid your damned if you do and damned if you don't on that one, which is why if we are to have fan involvement I would rather see a fan owned club.
Capped at 0.05% share maximum holding per supporter with a total holding no less than 51% of the gross by the supporter base. Stop any of gaining control by the back door nonsense. How you would legislate for that would be a challenge but nevertheless that would be the dream. I fear it will remain nothing more especially with some of the vitriolic commentary on here. Still, if change were possible, that would get my vote.
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« Reply #23745 on: January 04, 2019, 10:16:29 am »


I was about to say the same thing, if not that then would you want to be involved in any supporter run club. It's not like our owners now are living locally so the distance isn't a major issue!
Distance an issue, it's walking distance from the Melbourne Arms to Sixfields  Smiley
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« Reply #23746 on: January 04, 2019, 10:17:27 am »

Being in the todayís business world running a business Ill try to improve your commercial awareness by advising the following. If your operating costs are equivalent or greater than your turnover or if you have poor cashflow you have no flexibility whatsoever. Turnover is absolutely irrelevant. I would also say that most problems in football come from financial mismanagement and nativity. You are also wrong in that many supporters think that the issues with the club are both on and off the pitch, not one or the other The issue many have with the off the pitch aspirations on here is that they are unrealistic and unachievable. This often detracts from sensible conversations regarding the direction of the club, not that we have much chance of doing anything about it. By the way the answer to my earlier post which you chose to ignore for fear of saying something silly is 150k maximum. And only then if you embark on some nonsense bank serving practice like factored invoicing. As ridiculous and unbelievable that sounds, thatís a fact by the way, not opinion.

Be careful. He'll be comparing whatapp to NTFC again.  Grin Grin Bare in mind out of that turnover, the wage bill probably accounts for about 2.5 million. I'd love to know some of their business credentials.

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« Reply #23747 on: January 04, 2019, 10:32:53 am »

You came out with the very same crap with Cardoza. He's the one in court not the posters here.

If you can't post anything sensible regarding the clubs off field plight, stick to the football love, you should be reigning it in.

One of us is missing the point.
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« Reply #23748 on: January 04, 2019, 11:03:42 am »

Once again Beds with all due respect you have read both me and my stance incorrectly. I am no advocate for things to continue as they are. I think that any structure that allows an ownership that serves the interests of the board more than those of the supporters is misguided and flawed at best. Sixfields is far from ideal and I felt totally underwhelmed with it from the day it was built. From day one there was a crushing disappointment and sense of an opportunity missed. However, my point is that the proposals you have put up on here are unworkable and occasionaly nothing more than ridiculous jargon. The problem is that any sensible debate that could be had about possibilities for change gets hijacked with barmy rhetoric and any credibility that the debate might have, however small gets destroyed in the process. What you fail to realise is that you are actually assisting people like KT and Cardoza because many people may see the alternative as a bunch of lunatics in charge of the asylum. Even now despite laying my cards on the table and revealing that I own and operate multi million pound businesses that by the way were entirely self financed which you claim is the goal has done nothing to temper your opinion. Just perhaps I might have something valuable to offer, after all I belong to the group that you claim to want to influence and attract to the club. A lifelong supporter and owner of multi million pound businesses one with a registered office in Northampton no less. However, god forbid you acknowledge that someone may have a credible alternative based on experience and track record, you miss the opportunity and continue blindly on and on turning most intelligent people off the debate and forcing them to believe that the current arrangement is the only credible one. Ironically it turns out that you are probably the greatest asset KT and his cronies have on here. No offence.
No offence taken, but I see for the first time you now have actually proposed your preferred way forward as  opposed to pour cold water on any ideas put forward without offering an alternative solution.
So you like the German 51% ownership method, great, but now show how it would work within our structure?
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« Reply #23749 on: January 04, 2019, 11:14:44 am »

No offence taken, but I see for the first time you now have actually proposed your preferred way forward as  opposed to pour cold water on any ideas put forward without offering an alternative solution.
So you like the German 51% ownership method, great, but now show how it would work within our structure?

for the purposes of this exchange no idea. I started a bit of a muse about this very subject but you didnít seem keen on any sort of financial input from anyone, believing it to be achievable from gate and food and beverage revenue alone. Given I personally found this model extraordinary to say the least any reasonable discussion from me got killed stone dead right there. I have no wish to criticise further Beds but you have spent what seems an age claiming to be able to attract business people to the club. Given this appears to be your first public attempt to involve someone from that demographic in the debate to date I have to say I find your approach somewhat questionable?
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« Reply #23750 on: January 04, 2019, 11:16:37 am »

Distance an issue, it's walking distance from the Melbourne Arms to Sixfields  Smiley
Not with my knee Rog.
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« Reply #23751 on: January 04, 2019, 12:56:55 pm »

I am not comparing NTFC to any of those companies, again same old story on here. You just cannot win as most just take one aspect of your post in complete isolation and pick it to pieces.

WHILST OFFERING NO THOUGHTS OR IDEALS OF THEIR OWN

Melbourne was basically saying that you HAVE to make a profit to get funding, this simply is not true as the examples of snapchat, twitter etc prove without a shade of a doubt. I am not saying it is right, I find it unbelievable that these companies raise hundreds of millions of dollars because they 
give away a free service to a lot of people, so have their information.

Technically most football clubs actually operate illegally, if they were any other type of business they would have closed down a long time ago, most operate insolvent, mostly because of an insane business model relating to players and management, which is driven by fans lust for new players and instant success.

I have business credentials but running a football club is quite unique. My business plan would revolve around asking the fans for patience whilst the club develops a medium term strategy for growth, which would mean not sacking managers and players every 5 minutes, would forge togetherness, hard work and attention to every single detail. Everyones job at the club would be to 1. Attract more first time fans, 2. Get those who come 1 / 2 times per season to come 6 /7 times, those who come 6/7 to be 12/13 and those 12/13 to be season ticket holders and finally season ticket holders to spend more money at the club. It would also be to increase every fans spending with NTFC through merchandise, sponsorship, or corporate, or more games etc

I will get shot down again but here goes, get ready to be upset again....... current season ticket holders and so most on here are not that important to the growth of the club   Who agrees? Who knows why I say that?  Melbourne, Hammy, Tcobb, GPC etc please let me know
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« Reply #23752 on: January 04, 2019, 13:00:50 pm »

 Ironically it turns out that you are probably the greatest asset KT and his cronies have on here.

It's a funny old world but exactly my thoughts - the accusation of us of being sheep, sucking up to KT whilst proffering a plan in idea only seem to miss the point.

I'm bored with saying it but without a solid business plan, real backers with real investment capability nothing will happen - ideally a collective (so more than one person) and ideally those that have a real love of the club (so acquisition & speculation is not the main objective) .

I'm glad you have politely bitten back re your own business acumen and whilst I cannot claim your achievement of it being my own business, myself heading a 200m pa business with 400 employees would suggest I'm not totally stupid in recognizing flawed plans.  
 
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« Reply #23753 on: January 04, 2019, 13:06:40 pm »


Technically most football clubs actually operate illegally, if they were any other type of business they would have closed down a long time ago, most operate insolvent, mostly because of an insane business model relating to players and management, which is driven by fans lust for new players and instant success.

I have business credentials but running a football club is quite unique. My business plan would revolve around asking the fans for patience whilst the club develops a medium term strategy for growth, which would mean not sacking managers and players every 5 minutes, would forge togetherness, hard work and attention to every single detail. Everyones job at the club would be to 1. Attract more first time fans, 2. Get those who come 1 / 2 times per season to come 6 /7 times, those who come 6/7 to be 12/13 and those 12/13 to be season ticket holders and finally season ticket holders to spend more money at the club. It would also be to increase every fans spending with NTFC through merchandise, sponsorship, or corporate, or more games etc


Not sure about being illegal but you are right football finance is typically lunacy when compared with "normal" businesses

100% agree with the sentiment of your next paragraph but with respect it's not a business plan - maybe a strategy based on common sense and the desire for a progressive club but you are unlikely to attract meaningful investment simply on that - and that sadly is why it hasn't happened.
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« Reply #23754 on: January 04, 2019, 13:31:24 pm »

It's a funny old world but exactly my thoughts - the accusation of us of being sheep, sucking up to KT whilst proffering a plan in idea only seem to miss the point.

I'm bored with saying it but without a solid business plan, real backers with real investment capability nothing will happen - ideally a collective (so more than one person) and ideally those that have a real love of the club (so acquisition & speculation is not the main objective) .

I'm glad you have politely bitten back re your own business acumen and whilst I cannot claim your achievement of it being my own business, myself heading a 200m pa business with 400 employees would suggest I'm not totally stupid in recognizing flawed plans.  
 

Indeed not
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« Reply #23755 on: January 04, 2019, 13:35:23 pm »

It is illegal to run a business that is insolvent, ie must be able to pay your expenses.

You keep asking for a business plan but how on earth can we provide much information without the accounts / financials ?

The business plan IS as I said, employee the best you can afford, create a real community, and basically understand what a football club has / is

Little things make a big difference and those differences add up to value in the eyes of the customer, creates loyalty and support, increases spending.

With the right people and systems in place it can be achieved although you will be battling deep entrenched attitudes and systems.

One example is stewarding. There should be two types of stewards  1: Most are customer services representing the club, helping the fans enjoy their experience. They are front line and should be far more valued, they have direct contact with the customers and are a great opportunity to enhance the fans view of the club   2. The 'bouncers' These should be out the way until needed not front line NOT representing the club to 'normal' fans.

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« Reply #23756 on: January 04, 2019, 13:38:48 pm »

My previous point seems to have been missed. The Trust are now going to seriously investigate fan ownership. So you'll see a bit of meat added to the bones of well meaning discussion on here.
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« Reply #23757 on: January 04, 2019, 13:43:47 pm »

My previous point seems to have been missed. The Trust are now going to seriously investigate fan ownership. So you'll see a bit of meat added to the bones of well meaning discussion on here.
This is taken from their Facebook page on Wednesday:

The second day of any new year is always a poignant one in the Trust calendar - on this day in 1992 NTFC Supporters Trust, the original football supporters trust, was born.
As we enter our 28th year, we hope that the frustrations and disappointments of 2018 will transform into a more hopeful and positive 2019 on and off the field.
The Trust has a number of goals this year and we would love your support, input and feedback to help us on our way.
We are hopeful of a breakthrough which will enable the east stand at Sixfields to finally be re-developed.
And while we understand that much of the detail of the negotiation between the council and football club is commercially sensitive, we think it is only fair for supporters to be given a meaningful position statement in terms of the scale of the intended development at Sixfields and a likely timescale.
The end of the Cardoza reign was unsatisfactorily shrouded by an all-encompassing veil of confidentiality - for reasons which then soon became painfully apparent.
We are quite clear in our view that we feel that any development on the Sixfields footprint should be for community benefit, along the lines of the original plans when the community stadium was built for the people of Northampton in 1994.
We are delighted that the stadium has been listed as an asset of community value but will be pressing the council to afford the same status to the surrounding land too.
We have also pledged to explore the idea of a fan ownership model for Northampton Town and will be reporting back on this shortly.
We admit that this presents many challenges and that it could only be reasonably done on the back of significant financial investment in the club.
Please join in the debate over the coming weeks and months, we would welcome any constructive views on the subject.
Finally, we are looking to communicate more effectively with the membership and the fanbase.
Many say they only hear from the Trust when the AGM mailout falls through the letterbox - it should be pointed out that we aim to keep mailing costs at a minimum.
But we are hoping to issue regular updates via email and social media, as well as holding open forums when applicable.
Any support you can give us would be much appreciated - while the club appears to be on a stable footing at present, we all know that rainy days never seem to be far away.
Up the Cobblers!


https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust
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« Reply #23758 on: January 04, 2019, 13:51:37 pm »

It is illegal to run a business that is insolvent, ie must be able to pay your expenses.

You keep asking for a business plan but how on earth can we provide much information without the accounts / financials ?

The business plan IS as I said, employee the best you can afford, create a real community, and basically understand what a football club has / is

Little things make a big difference and those differences add up to value in the eyes of the customer, creates loyalty and support, increases spending.

With the right people and systems in place it can be achieved although you will be battling deep entrenched attitudes and systems.

One example is stewarding. There should be two types of stewards  1: Most are customer services representing the club, helping the fans enjoy their experience. They are front line and should be far more valued, they have direct contact with the customers and are a great opportunity to enhance the fans view of the club   2. The 'bouncers' These should be out the way until needed not front line NOT representing the club to 'normal' fans.



Not quite true because the Football club has been insolvent for several years. That is why it requires the financial support of its shareholders to continue training. That is perfectly legal.

The issue is that a business plan must be drawn up to replace this backing if a fans led takeover is to proceed. Indeed that is true of any new owners. Failure to do so could render any New directors and any individuals of significant control personally liable for all the debts incurred.

My estimate would be thatTaking into account the share purchase cost,(£2M) cost of reconstruction i.e cancellation of contracts redundancies etc(£0.25M) covering the anticipated losses the financial year(£0.5M). providing Working Capital (£.5M)and a very basic completion of the East Stand(£1M) . The new owners would either have to inject this sum or at least provide guarantees to that level.
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« Reply #23759 on: January 04, 2019, 14:00:51 pm »

This is taken from their Facebook page on Wednesday:

The second day of any new year is always a poignant one in the Trust calendar - on this day in 1992 NTFC Supporters Trust, the original football supporters trust, was born.
As we enter our 28th year, we hope that the frustrations and disappointments of 2018 will transform into a more hopeful and positive 2019 on and off the field.
The Trust has a number of goals this year and we would love your support, input and feedback to help us on our way.
We are hopeful of a breakthrough which will enable the east stand at Sixfields to finally be re-developed.
And while we understand that much of the detail of the negotiation between the council and football club is commercially sensitive, we think it is only fair for supporters to be given a meaningful position statement in terms of the scale of the intended development at Sixfields and a likely timescale.
The end of the Cardoza reign was unsatisfactorily shrouded by an all-encompassing veil of confidentiality - for reasons which then soon became painfully apparent.
We are quite clear in our view that we feel that any development on the Sixfields footprint should be for community benefit, along the lines of the original plans when the community stadium was built for the people of Northampton in 1994.
We are delighted that the stadium has been listed as an asset of community value but will be pressing the council to afford the same status to the surrounding land too.
We have also pledged to explore the idea of a fan ownership model for Northampton Town and will be reporting back on this shortly.
We admit that this presents many challenges and that it could only be reasonably done on the back of significant financial investment in the club.
Please join in the debate over the coming weeks and months, we would welcome any constructive views on the subject.
Finally, we are looking to communicate more effectively with the membership and the fanbase.
Many say they only hear from the Trust when the AGM mailout falls through the letterbox - it should be pointed out that we aim to keep mailing costs at a minimum.
But we are hoping to issue regular updates via email and social media, as well as holding open forums when applicable.
Any support you can give us would be much appreciated - while the club appears to be on a stable footing at present, we all know that rainy days never seem to be far away.
Up the Cobblers!


https://www.facebook.com/ntfcsupporterstrust

does the trust know what support it requires?  not all of us want to sit round a table every month chewing the fat, plenty of us probably have skills and experience or time to dip in now and again to achieve specific objectives.  knowing what support is required might generate more volunteers. 

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