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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1018909 times)
Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #23820 on: January 15, 2019, 07:19:45 am »

I used Worcester RFC as an example only to show what can be achieved with a wealthy backer committed to his club and city.  It is I think a useful example because that club also had a poor ground and lower than desired attendances.  Remember when you start number crunching NTFC's customer base should be significantly greater than Worcester's with our population being 230,000 and Worcester's 100,000.  I have not even begun to estimate our catchment area.  Also a successful football club probably has more pulling power than a rugby club, the more so when you take into account away support.  Clearly, the wealthy backer or backers have to put their collateral on the line. I take that as read.

The challenge is that we have owners who need to go and go quickly because they appear to have no intention of progressing our club.  There is always the nagging worry of being careful of what you wish for but so be it.  We cannot continue as we are with owner after owner failing us.  It is also time for fans to become motivated and get behind the move to change the current dismal state of affairs.  For those who are simply happy to turn up and watch League 2 football and will be content to do so for years to come in a stadium lacking in investment there is no hope and they will continue to tell us about their no can do approach to supporting the Cobblers.

The Trust is on the case but, like the broader base of supporters, a change of direction and attitude is needed.  We await to see what transpires.
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« Reply #23821 on: January 15, 2019, 08:03:23 am »

I can only assume you believe the town and county of Northampton doesn't like football?
Well being ts our national sport, a successful Cobblers playing in a stadium that gives some civic pride that features all the facilities known to attract football fans, playing competitively in league 1 against all our local rivals and big attractive clubs that drop into L1 on regular basis, would so very easily  give us 50% growth in a lot shorter time.
I have a lot of mates (ah football fwend) who like football and support a range of premier league teams! Most have been on the glory days to Wembley and asked about tickets when we get the big cup games etc but they have no interest in coming on a weekly basis and its nothing to do with the ground. Its the 'sh1t' level of football! A few have been to sixfields on the odd occasion and to paraphrase they see Sixfields as a 'great little stadium'. Now I dont agree with that but its because they are comparing it to premier league grounds and they see it as 'cute'.
My point is there is a fairly large group of people I know that dont attend because of the level of football and not the stadium. They wont suddenly come if we have a new east stand or terracing, they will come when we climb the leagues and get some decent football. Thats where the focus should be, not build it and they will come.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23822 on: January 15, 2019, 08:23:14 am »

I'm with you on this Evers...the Wham stadium experience couldn't outstrip an Andrew Ridgely open mic night!  Grin

I'm taking that you've only experienced it from an away perspective. Go in the home end at Accrington and see what Andy Holt is doing and I guarantee you'll be impressed particularly the local real ale bars! Meanwhile 3 years down the line the computer is still saying no on getting the decent real and craft ales made locally on sale at Sixfields. That's if you can get served. New training ground on the way at Stanley too.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #23823 on: January 15, 2019, 08:47:59 am »

I have a lot of mates (ah football fwend) who like football and support a range of premier league teams! Most have been on the glory days to Wembley and asked about tickets when we get the big cup games etc but they have no interest in coming on a weekly basis and its nothing to do with the ground. Its the 'sh1t' level of football! A few have been to sixfields on the odd occasion and to paraphrase they see Sixfields as a 'great little stadium'. Now I dont agree with that but its because they are comparing it to premier league grounds and they see it as 'cute'.
My point is there is a fairly large group of people I know that dont attend because of the level of football and not the stadium. They wont suddenly come if we have a new east stand or terracing, they will come when we climb the leagues and get some decent football. Thats where the focus should be, not build it and they will come.
3 generations of potential Northampton town fans have virtual been lost due to growing up listening to how poor a club we are. Many of them would hear, they're rubbish  why do you want to watch them?
Had we ever maintained a higher level of football at L1 playing in a much better less restrictive  stadium that each season hosted several big attractive league games and a few in the cup, a buzz would've  been created,  young fans tend flock to these games able to stand/ sit with friends in what would  be a more professional looking atmospheric, can wait to return, stadium.
Current day Sixfields is the reason we witness **** levels of football,  unable to escape division 4, it's why we cant get proper transfer fees for our young players, why we cant attract local businesse's because we don't have proper corporate facilities,
But most importantly cant attract the 1000s of towns young people, because they are constantly told 'we are rubbish'
After these past 20 years of zero growth, it's hard to argue against.

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meccanostand
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« Reply #23824 on: January 15, 2019, 08:52:44 am »

3 generations of potential Northampton town fans have virtual been lost due to growing up listening to how poor a club we are. Many of them would hear, they're rubbish  why do you want to watch them?
Had we ever maintained a higher level of football at L1 playing in a much better less restrictive  stadium that each season hosted several big attractive league games and a few in the cup, a buzz would've  been created,  young fans tend flock to these games able to stand/ sit with friends in what would  be a more professional looking atmospheric, can wait to return, stadium.
Current day Sixfields is the reason we witness **** levels of football,  unable to escape division 4, it's why we cant get proper transfer fees for our young players, why we cant attract local businesse's because we don't have proper corporate facilities,
But most importantly cant attract the 1000s of towns young people, because they are constantly told 'we are rubbish'
After these past 20 years of zero growth, it's hard to argue against.



Of course it's possible with rounded infrastructure and club management policies to raise attendances. We're already at a small proportion of the catchment area with the population of the Town due to rise. Think of it as a challenge, a huge market that you need to get to buy into what is a pretty great sport. We're failing by the by.

Instead of a "it's only the Cobblers" or "that'll do" approach we need a new mindset of pushing boundaries. We've had nearly a hundred years of short-term thinking. Time for a change.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #23825 on: January 15, 2019, 09:08:52 am »

Another gem from Lutons finest ďSo using the current state of our archaic little ground as a yard stick should be nul and voidď. So according to you any opinion surrounding our ability to fill our current ground is null and void. In other words a concern for some of the support base is off the table for evaluation? The quoted opinion of Jim OíToole is obviously irrelevant because you havenít commented either? To repeat get some considered balance to your views and opinions tempered with some common sense otherwise they will continue to be subjected to ridicule and irrelevance.
Steady sustainable growth working very closely with the town and catchment is my preference to escape our current plight.
The only person who said leave Sixfields  as it is, its fine for league 1, was Thomas, and look how well that went.
I believe the best most cost effective way of getting our ground league 1 ready giving it a professional want to visit feel to be place would be to fit out the east stand boxes first and a large bank of terracing built up behind the South.
Not to everyone's cup of tea but kills more birds with less stones.
I will be honest and admit to having no idea who Jim Otoole is, but if he puts forward workable ideas into getting our club and it infrastrure moving in the right direction,  that's fine by me.
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« Reply #23826 on: January 15, 2019, 09:25:27 am »

Just a bit of background reading on Worcester Warriors.

Summary: Premiership strugglers report eight million pound loss for 2016-17 season. Had it not been for shareholders writing off loans totalling more than £20million, losses for the previous season would have come to £6.6million with the club having shipped £5.5million in the year before that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43690322

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/16952198.worcester-warriors-mccrory-consortium-completes-takeover-deal/

Now owned by Jed McCrory who I don't think is very welcome in Swindon Town circles...



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meccanostand
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« Reply #23827 on: January 15, 2019, 09:28:31 am »

Just a bit of background reading on Worcester Warriors.

Summary: Premiership strugglers report eight million pound loss for 2016-17 season. Had it not been for shareholders writing off loans totalling more than £20million, losses for the previous season would have come to £6.6million with the club having shipped £5.5million in the year before that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43690322

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/16952198.worcester-warriors-mccrory-consortium-completes-takeover-deal/

Now owned by Jed McCrory who I don't think is very welcome in Swindon Town circles...


Not sure Worcester Warriors are the only example of infrastructure investment in world sport.




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« Reply #23828 on: January 15, 2019, 09:57:25 am »


They're not, but I think its a great example of what can be achieved but the risk that comes with.
Some are prepares to risk high short term losses whilst some are not. When looking at the options open to us, we have to consider examples like this with high losses as well as those that appear to have been successful. There are lots of case studies such as this which any decision should be based on and not fanciful numbers plucked out of the air (not suggesting that you have done that). If we create numbers to make any proposal work then the likelihood of success is minimal and the risk to the club significant.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23829 on: January 15, 2019, 10:13:10 am »

They're not, but I think its a great example of what can be achieved but the risk that comes with.
Some are prepares to risk high short term losses whilst some are not. When looking at the options open to us, we have to consider examples like this with high losses as well as those that appear to have been successful. There are lots of case studies such as this which any decision should be based on and not fanciful numbers plucked out of the air (not suggesting that you have done that). If we create numbers to make any proposal work then the likelihood of success is minimal and the risk to the club significant.

Obviously any infrastructural improvements would have to be costed and viable. We're not talking building the Allienz Arena here. Attention to detail and constant improvements and we'll make a club that is no longer a laughing stock in the town.
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« Reply #23830 on: January 15, 2019, 10:14:14 am »

I used Worcester RFC as an example only to show what can be achieved with a wealthy backer committed to his club and city.  It is I think a useful example because that club also had a poor ground and lower than desired attendances.  Remember when you start number crunching NTFC's customer base should be significantly greater than Worcester's with our population being 230,000 and Worcester's 100,000.  I have not even begun to estimate our catchment area.  Also a successful football club probably has more pulling power than a rugby club, the more so when you take into account away support.  Clearly, the wealthy backer or backers have to put their collateral on the line. I take that as read.

The challenge is that we have owners who need to go and go quickly because they appear to have no intention of progressing our club.  There is always the nagging worry of being careful of what you wish for but so be it.  We cannot continue as we are with owner after owner failing us.  It is also time for fans to become motivated and get behind the move to change the current dismal state of affairs.  For those who are simply happy to turn up and watch League 2 football and will be content to do so for years to come in a stadium lacking in investment there is no hope and they will continue to tell us about their no can do approach to supporting the Cobblers.

The Trust is on the case but, like the broader base of supporters, a change of direction and attitude is needed.  We await to see what transpires.
I appreciate that Vintage and Iím not having a go Iím really not. What ever the ins and outs Worcester have invested a significant amount of money in the infrastructure because they believe it to be viable. All I am trying to point out is that it is not straight forward and you have to evaluate each case on its merits. The fact is that investment in the infrastructure at NTFC has a place. The decision about what to spend and when needs to be carefully planned but I would be part of the big picture and has a place. As I keep saying the major stumbling block is the capital. Beds would have you believe this an be achieved through increased attendance at the gate, food and beverage sales etc etc. But because we would have had no capital investment this would need to be achieved with Sixfields in its current state. However, he claims that this is the very thing that prevents us from increasing attendance etc. Itís the proverbial chicken and egg and is nothing more than total lunacy. This debate needs a dose of common sense and the bleeding obvious if it is going to gather momentum. Despite appearances I am not having a go at Beds either at the end of the day. I get frustrated because it detracts from what should be a discussion about realistic and viable options to drag the club out of what we universally accept is the endless cycle of being in the doldrums at best.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23831 on: January 15, 2019, 10:19:30 am »

I appreciate that Vintage and Iím not having a go Iím really not. What ever the ins and outs Worcester have invested a significant amount of money in the infrastructure because they believe it to be viable. All I am trying to point out is that it is not straight forward and you have to evaluate each case on its merits. The fact is that investment in the infrastructure at NTFC has a place. The decision about what to spend and when needs to be carefully planned but I would be part of the big picture and has a place. As I keep saying the major stumbling block is the capital. Beds would have you believe this an be achieved through increased attendance at the gate, food and beverage sales etc etc. But because we would have had no capital investment this would need to be achieved with Sixfields in its current state. However, he claims that this is the very thing that prevents us from increasing attendance etc. Itís the proverbial chicken and egg and is nothing more than total lunacy. This debate needs a dose of common sense and the bleeding obvious if it is going to gather momentum. Despite appearances I am not having a go at Beds either at the end of the day. I get frustrated because it detracts from what should be a discussion about realistic and viable options to drag the club out of what we universally accept is the endless cycle of being in the doldrums at best.

Some good points but probably not best to give to much credence to the back and forth on an anonymous internet messageboard with regards viability of anything.
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« Reply #23832 on: January 15, 2019, 10:32:39 am »

Some good points but probably not best to give to much credence to the back and forth on an anonymous internet messageboard with regards viability of anything.
I agree, but if a fan owned club is the target then the opinion of the collective has relevance. Therefore anything that influences that, even the most radical should be subjected to scrutiny. The devil is in the detail as the saying goes.
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« Reply #23833 on: January 15, 2019, 10:45:44 am »

A good example of a club of similar size is Rotherham United.

The New York Stadium cost between £17-20m to build from scratch on a brownfield site.

Funding seems to have been split as follows:
- £5m council loan
- £3.3m grant
- £6.7m private investment

Not sure where the remaining money came from.

http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2011/06/news-2095-rotherham-united-assures-fans.html
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23834 on: January 15, 2019, 10:50:19 am »

I agree, but if a fan owned club is the target then the opinion of the collective has relevance. Therefore anything that influences that, even the most radical should be subjected to scrutiny. The devil is in the detail as the saying goes.

Sure but this board doesn't represent a collective. It's good for throwing a few ideas around sure but anything more needs to be presented and discussed in a more formal way.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23835 on: January 15, 2019, 11:02:40 am »

A good example of a club of similar size is Rotherham United.

The New York Stadium cost between £17-20m to build from scratch on a brownfield site.

Funding seems to have been split as follows:
- £5m council loan
- £3.3m grant
- £6.7m private investment

Not sure where the remaining money came from.

http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2011/06/news-2095-rotherham-united-assures-fans.html

Yes a good set-up to benchmark ourselves against.
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« Reply #23836 on: January 15, 2019, 11:07:11 am »

Sure but this board doesn't represent a collective. It's good for throwing a few ideas around sure but anything more needs to be presented and discussed in a more formal way.
Iím not sure about that Mecca. There are a few hundred on here including trust members. The majority opinion on here matters. Itís a long way from the be all and end all and there are far greater elements of significance, but the opinion on here matters.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23837 on: January 15, 2019, 11:23:12 am »

Iím not sure about that Mecca. There are a few hundred on here including trust members. The majority opinion on here matters. Itís a long way from the be all and end all and there are far greater elements of significance, but the opinion on here matters.

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
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« Reply #23838 on: January 15, 2019, 11:25:43 am »

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
Again agreed, but I still think the opinion on here matters.
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Boring Bar Steward
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« Reply #23839 on: January 15, 2019, 11:26:59 am »

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
Do you know when there will be feedback from the questions to the Council and Club?
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