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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 995580 times)
Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #23840 on: January 14, 2019, 18:56:57 pm »

And for the doubters take a look for yourselves

https://warriors.co.uk/warriors-hospitality/

Over to you Mr Thomas (3.5 years later)
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« Reply #23841 on: January 14, 2019, 18:59:42 pm »

And for the doubters take a look for yourselves

https://warriors.co.uk/warriors-hospitality/

Over to you Mr Thomas (3.5 years later)
I thought it was a picture of Carrs bar for a min  Grin
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« Reply #23842 on: January 14, 2019, 19:02:20 pm »

I have to disagree with the views of Everbrite and others of that school of thought who argue that you need to create a successful team before you develop the ground.  It is narrow one dimensional thinking.  

Our much needed redevelopment is not just about what happens on the pitch on every other Saturday and occasionally on a Tuesday but to create a stadium with facilities that attract people to spend money at the venue 7 days a week.  

Let me give a concrete example of what I am talking about.  I live and work in the West Midlands.  Worcester RFC is situated just off J6 of the M5 (not much unlike NTFC situated close to 3 M1 junctions) and in recent years demolished a stand worse than our original East Stand and in its place constructed an impressive new stand with restaurants, meeting rooms of various sizes and corporate hospitality boxes. I am not a rugby person but I have been there several times during non-match days at different times and the place has been heaving with people attending training sessions for their companies, marketing functions and so on.  Just outside this stand a John Lloyd Leisure Centre has been built and has a lot of members.  I could go on. Clearly, the club is enjoying a significant income from non-rugby activities that must be of great benefit.  This simple example gives you and outline of what could and indeed should have happened at Sixfields. If supporters cannot see the bigger picture there is no hope and we will continue to be putty in the hands of our owners.

PS. Worcester RFC was recently sold to new owners and the local businessman who developed the ground walked away with a substantial sum of money.
You highlight my biggest frustration.
The potential offield business is available, the corporate boxes were ALL verbally spoken for!

What NTFC require is an entrepreneur to be the catalyst to give the Cobblers the facilities, which in turn would offer the team a sustainable longterm backing.

Where is he/her/them?Huh??
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23843 on: January 14, 2019, 19:17:26 pm »

I have to disagree with the views of Everbrite and others of that school of thought who argue that you need to create a successful team before you develop the ground.  It is narrow one dimensional thinking.  

Our much needed redevelopment is not just about what happens on the pitch on every other Saturday and occasionally on a Tuesday but to create a stadium with facilities that attract people to spend money at the venue 7 days a week.  

Let me give a concrete example of what I am talking about.  I live and work in the West Midlands.  Worcester RFC is situated just off J6 of the M5 (not much unlike NTFC situated close to 3 M1 junctions) and in recent years demolished a stand worse than our original East Stand and in its place constructed an impressive new stand with restaurants, meeting rooms of various sizes and corporate hospitality boxes. I am not a rugby person but I have been there several times during non-match days at different times and the place has been heaving with people attending training sessions for their companies, marketing functions and so on.  Just outside this stand a John Lloyd Leisure Centre has been built and has a lot of members.  I could go on. Clearly, the club is enjoying a significant income from non-rugby activities that must be of great benefit.  This simple example gives you and outline of what could and indeed should have happened at Sixfields. If supporters cannot see the bigger picture there is no hope and we will continue to be putty in the hands of our owners.

PS. Worcester RFC was recently sold to new owners and the local businessman who developed the ground walked away with a substantial sum of money.

Yes and we need to build a club that the large companies based in the region want to associate with.
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Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #23844 on: January 14, 2019, 19:20:38 pm »

Absolutely agree meccano but it's time for the present owners to go their way. They have had more than long enough.
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« Reply #23845 on: January 14, 2019, 19:33:43 pm »



Where is he/her/them?Huh??
They are currently outside but struggling to get past the immovable objects laying in their way.
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« Reply #23846 on: January 14, 2019, 20:11:24 pm »

And for the doubters take a look for yourselves

https://warriors.co.uk/warriors-hospitality/


The South Stand shown on here is a similar “better” layout of what the East could be if ever finished.
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet
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« Reply #23847 on: January 14, 2019, 20:22:23 pm »

The new main stand to which I was referring cost, if I recall correctly, about £6m.  You can see a photo of it on the home page of Worcester's website. It is very impressive inside, much more so than the photos show. Lifts and a sense of size.  Worcester RFC was owned for years and until recently by successful local businessman. You have to ask yourself why Northampton with a population more than double the size of Worcester cannot do the same when it comes to NTFC.
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« Reply #23848 on: January 14, 2019, 20:31:37 pm »

Completely agree. I took a look at all of it via the link, very impressive.
Boxes in several stands, all appear high standard.
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet
Vintage Cobbler
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« Reply #23849 on: January 14, 2019, 20:40:30 pm »

And it's possible but not with our present owners.  Worcester was a rugby backwater until recent years.

The Trust appears to be ready to be bold but it is going to take the wider fan base to make it clear that what we have today simply isn't acceptable and that we wants changes BIG CHANGES at our club.
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« Reply #23850 on: January 14, 2019, 20:57:01 pm »

And it's possible but not with our present owners.  Worcester was a rugby backwater until recent years.

The Trust appears to be ready to be bold but it is going to take the wider fan base to make it clear that what we have today simply isn't acceptable and that we wants changes BIG CHANGES at our club.

The problem I have with redevelopment and building of conference facilities, boxes and suchlike is that they take years to pay back the outlay. As i've said before say you get £12k in revenue for a season for a box, multiply that by 16 and you have just shy of £200k. What proportion of that is profit? The boxes and conference centre cost money to run.

Therefore its years until you actually start to make money on such stuff (assuming a £4m outlay), and our owners have always said they are not in it for the long term, so they won't get "their" money back......so just talking about paying the money back....before you can think about investing in the team!

Spend £4m on facilities, bring in an extra 500k a year, of that 250k is profit........(pie in the sky figures but do you see my point?)

Was speaking to someone connected to the club over the weekend about the boxes...most of them were reserved by companies who already invest in the club, already sponsor, and already use the executive facilities we have at present. So how much "new money" can a League 2 team pull in?
Not all the boxes were reserved anyway, and some would be available on a match by match basis.
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« Reply #23851 on: January 14, 2019, 20:58:04 pm »

Genuine question, I note on here with interest the criteria defining what constitutes a desirable ground. Who would also consider a disproportionately large and over developed ground relative to the support base to be a poor ground? Bare in mind that a ground of this nature can be a commercial millstone around the neck of the board, stifling progress on the pitch and has the potential to drive the club into oblivion? I didn’t see any on the list?
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« Reply #23852 on: January 14, 2019, 21:13:36 pm »

GPC of course i see your point.  But if you take the example I have given of Worcester RFC and what it has achieved over the past 10 years this could be duplicated at NTFC.  As I said the original local money man put his money in and at risk, developed the ground with the new stand and sold on to new owners wanting to take that club to the next level. If it can happen there, why on earth not at Northampton with its population of 230,000 and rising and with a huge catchment area?

It takes money for sure but it also takes leadership, drive, energy, ambition and vision and for people to buy into a progressive plan on and off the pitch.   These things have been sorely lacking and there has been a complete absence of these commodities in a series of owners including the current incumbents.

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« Reply #23853 on: January 14, 2019, 21:23:53 pm »

GPC of course i see your point.  But if you take the example I have given of Worcester RFC and what it has achieved over the past 10 years this could be duplicated at NTFC.  As I said the original local money man put his money in and at risk, developed the ground with the new stand and sold on to new owners wanting to take that club to the next level. If it can happen there, why on earth not at Northampton with its population of 230,000 and rising and with a huge catchment area?

It takes money for sure but it also takes leadership, drive, energy, ambition and vision and for people to buy into a progressive plan on and off the pitch.   These things have been sorely lacking and there has been a complete absence of these commodities in a series of owners including the current incumbents.



Agree entirely, but where have any of our owners been in it for the long run? What Worcester have done is only the same as Barwell did down the road at Franklins Gardens.

Just a question for you financial brains out there.......if we built new stands at Sixfields would they be an asset of the club, or are they a council asset seeing as we don't own the ground? Is it not "dead money"? Yes whatever we build could facilitate extra revenue for the club....but we'd never own it, therefore would it be a saleable asset?
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« Reply #23854 on: January 14, 2019, 21:47:31 pm »

Genuine question, I note on here with interest the criteria defining what constitutes a desirable ground. Who would also consider a disproportionately large and over developed ground relative to the support base to be a poor ground? Bare in mind that a ground of this nature can be a commercial millstone around the neck of the board, stifling progress on the pitch and has the potential to drive the club into oblivion? I didn’t see any on the list?
No one has ever put forward for a millstone of a ground as its not what we want or need.
Possibly the only thing I ever agreed with Thomas on was when he suggested we don't want to be like MK with a massive ground, but when he didn't mention the 12000 capacity one, which we desperately need, I realised immediately that he was using diversionary tactics and wasting all our time.
That was 3 years ago.
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« Reply #23855 on: January 14, 2019, 21:49:35 pm »

Trying to give a balanced evaluation it appears the catalyst for development was considered to be getting close to or selling out the ground on a regular basis?

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/sport/14468117.worcester-warriors-lining-up-new-north-stand-as-they-look-to-increase-sixways-capacity-to-20000/

Each case has to be considered on its merits with a balanced evaluation of the particular circumstances. I understand this is a frustration for many, but may go some way to answering why this has been a struggle at Sixfields to date. GPC points out some very real challenges with the development issue that a head full of dreams and a heart full of hope alone won’t solve. Worcester by their own admission are not currently self sustaining and it is claimed by the former owners that it is being sold to take the club to the next level. Perhaps it was the case that the former owners felt it to be a challenge too far to achieve financial independence. Success on the pitch leads to bigger gates which sell out the ground and massively increase the argument for investment. This is not narrow minded thinking but a very viable and sensible option that shouldn’t be suppressed. To develop the infrastructure to attract bigger gates also has merit and is undeniably a possibility. However the single biggest challenge to this is raising the capital with a proven ability to meet the payment terms of any construction company and associated service providers. Without that you will not get a spade in the ground. How, who and on what terms did Worcester manage to achieve this? The only narrow minded thinking on here comes from individuals who have made their decision about what they would like to see and then fail to give due consideration to every option and risk, attempting to suppress the opinion of anyone who does. Whilst I am a firm advocate for a fan ownership with capped minority share ownership this undoubtedly highlights one of the risks and concerns associated with this proposed structure.
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« Reply #23856 on: January 14, 2019, 21:50:47 pm »

No one has ever put forward for a millstone of a ground as its not what we want or need.
Possibly the only thing I ever agreed with Thomas on was when he suggested we don't want to be like MK with a massive ground, but when he didn't mention the 12000 capacity one, which we desperately need, I realised immediately that he was using diversionary tactics and wasting all our time.
That was 3 years ago.
That wasn’t the question. The question was which clubs currently have one?
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« Reply #23857 on: January 14, 2019, 21:53:40 pm »

Ha Ha - I asked you a question. Were you blindfolded when you went to Stanley,Oldham, Luton and Pompey.  Obviously you were. These a poor grounds and there are more no better than sixfields ; FGR for example.

Oh, Evers.  Still flapping around on the bank, I see.  <chortle>

For the second time of asking, would you care to re-read the post that you took your bite on, consider the information provided in it (it is only 18 words long, after all - 6 of which are padding), then think very carefully what it is saying.....  imagine in your minds eye where it takes you as you read it.....

Then, once you've proven that you can read and comprehend, I may deign to reply to post.

Lots of love!

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« Reply #23858 on: January 14, 2019, 22:09:15 pm »

Andy Holt is making great strides at Accrington including ground improvements. Their "matchday experience" now outstrips ours. Obviously Wimbledon have a new stadium on the way so that list is getting smaller.

Presumably you are taking the Mick, you can only  consider the grounds the Club is currently playing in - not future potential grounds.
Of all the Grounds Stanley was the poorest I have been to. If they have done ground improvements it is hardly upto Sixfields standard.
Add Mansfield and Burton to the list. The trouble with your argument is that you ensure that it suits your agenda. We all know Sixfields needs updating and no doubt you will be part of the new consortium with money to spare.
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« Reply #23859 on: January 14, 2019, 22:22:09 pm »

That wasn’t the question. The question was which clubs currently have one?
Not us, well yes us but in  reversal as our lack of ground is  a crippling millstone  so let's not worry others?
To build up Sixfields in 3 stages, East stand, south stand extention and finally the north stand, thus giving us a ground thats free from current match day restrictions in which we can comfortably house many more visiting fans who are attracted to a proper ground, so by looking to achieve a 1% increase in our catchment  giving gates of 8000 plus in a 12000 capacity ground that allows further growth and bigger attendances for the many more big attractive games we will get involved in, this way removes the stagnating obstacles we as a club never seem avoid.
Basically doing things in an easy to achieve well publiced stages will gather momentum and introduce the buzz for following the football club of Northampton, something thats been missing  for so long .
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