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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 987785 times)
meccanostand
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« Reply #23900 on: January 15, 2019, 10:13:10 am »

They're not, but I think its a great example of what can be achieved but the risk that comes with.
Some are prepares to risk high short term losses whilst some are not. When looking at the options open to us, we have to consider examples like this with high losses as well as those that appear to have been successful. There are lots of case studies such as this which any decision should be based on and not fanciful numbers plucked out of the air (not suggesting that you have done that). If we create numbers to make any proposal work then the likelihood of success is minimal and the risk to the club significant.

Obviously any infrastructural improvements would have to be costed and viable. We're not talking building the Allienz Arena here. Attention to detail and constant improvements and we'll make a club that is no longer a laughing stock in the town.
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« Reply #23901 on: January 15, 2019, 10:14:14 am »

I used Worcester RFC as an example only to show what can be achieved with a wealthy backer committed to his club and city.  It is I think a useful example because that club also had a poor ground and lower than desired attendances.  Remember when you start number crunching NTFC's customer base should be significantly greater than Worcester's with our population being 230,000 and Worcester's 100,000.  I have not even begun to estimate our catchment area.  Also a successful football club probably has more pulling power than a rugby club, the more so when you take into account away support.  Clearly, the wealthy backer or backers have to put their collateral on the line. I take that as read.

The challenge is that we have owners who need to go and go quickly because they appear to have no intention of progressing our club.  There is always the nagging worry of being careful of what you wish for but so be it.  We cannot continue as we are with owner after owner failing us.  It is also time for fans to become motivated and get behind the move to change the current dismal state of affairs.  For those who are simply happy to turn up and watch League 2 football and will be content to do so for years to come in a stadium lacking in investment there is no hope and they will continue to tell us about their no can do approach to supporting the Cobblers.

The Trust is on the case but, like the broader base of supporters, a change of direction and attitude is needed.  We await to see what transpires.
I appreciate that Vintage and Iím not having a go Iím really not. What ever the ins and outs Worcester have invested a significant amount of money in the infrastructure because they believe it to be viable. All I am trying to point out is that it is not straight forward and you have to evaluate each case on its merits. The fact is that investment in the infrastructure at NTFC has a place. The decision about what to spend and when needs to be carefully planned but I would be part of the big picture and has a place. As I keep saying the major stumbling block is the capital. Beds would have you believe this an be achieved through increased attendance at the gate, food and beverage sales etc etc. But because we would have had no capital investment this would need to be achieved with Sixfields in its current state. However, he claims that this is the very thing that prevents us from increasing attendance etc. Itís the proverbial chicken and egg and is nothing more than total lunacy. This debate needs a dose of common sense and the bleeding obvious if it is going to gather momentum. Despite appearances I am not having a go at Beds either at the end of the day. I get frustrated because it detracts from what should be a discussion about realistic and viable options to drag the club out of what we universally accept is the endless cycle of being in the doldrums at best.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23902 on: January 15, 2019, 10:19:30 am »

I appreciate that Vintage and Iím not having a go Iím really not. What ever the ins and outs Worcester have invested a significant amount of money in the infrastructure because they believe it to be viable. All I am trying to point out is that it is not straight forward and you have to evaluate each case on its merits. The fact is that investment in the infrastructure at NTFC has a place. The decision about what to spend and when needs to be carefully planned but I would be part of the big picture and has a place. As I keep saying the major stumbling block is the capital. Beds would have you believe this an be achieved through increased attendance at the gate, food and beverage sales etc etc. But because we would have had no capital investment this would need to be achieved with Sixfields in its current state. However, he claims that this is the very thing that prevents us from increasing attendance etc. Itís the proverbial chicken and egg and is nothing more than total lunacy. This debate needs a dose of common sense and the bleeding obvious if it is going to gather momentum. Despite appearances I am not having a go at Beds either at the end of the day. I get frustrated because it detracts from what should be a discussion about realistic and viable options to drag the club out of what we universally accept is the endless cycle of being in the doldrums at best.

Some good points but probably not best to give to much credence to the back and forth on an anonymous internet messageboard with regards viability of anything.
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« Reply #23903 on: January 15, 2019, 10:32:39 am »

Some good points but probably not best to give to much credence to the back and forth on an anonymous internet messageboard with regards viability of anything.
I agree, but if a fan owned club is the target then the opinion of the collective has relevance. Therefore anything that influences that, even the most radical should be subjected to scrutiny. The devil is in the detail as the saying goes.
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clarkeysntfc
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« Reply #23904 on: January 15, 2019, 10:45:44 am »

A good example of a club of similar size is Rotherham United.

The New York Stadium cost between £17-20m to build from scratch on a brownfield site.

Funding seems to have been split as follows:
- £5m council loan
- £3.3m grant
- £6.7m private investment

Not sure where the remaining money came from.

http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2011/06/news-2095-rotherham-united-assures-fans.html
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23905 on: January 15, 2019, 10:50:19 am »

I agree, but if a fan owned club is the target then the opinion of the collective has relevance. Therefore anything that influences that, even the most radical should be subjected to scrutiny. The devil is in the detail as the saying goes.

Sure but this board doesn't represent a collective. It's good for throwing a few ideas around sure but anything more needs to be presented and discussed in a more formal way.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23906 on: January 15, 2019, 11:02:40 am »

A good example of a club of similar size is Rotherham United.

The New York Stadium cost between £17-20m to build from scratch on a brownfield site.

Funding seems to have been split as follows:
- £5m council loan
- £3.3m grant
- £6.7m private investment

Not sure where the remaining money came from.

http://www.rothbiz.co.uk/2011/06/news-2095-rotherham-united-assures-fans.html

Yes a good set-up to benchmark ourselves against.
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« Reply #23907 on: January 15, 2019, 11:07:11 am »

Sure but this board doesn't represent a collective. It's good for throwing a few ideas around sure but anything more needs to be presented and discussed in a more formal way.
Iím not sure about that Mecca. There are a few hundred on here including trust members. The majority opinion on here matters. Itís a long way from the be all and end all and there are far greater elements of significance, but the opinion on here matters.
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23908 on: January 15, 2019, 11:23:12 am »

Iím not sure about that Mecca. There are a few hundred on here including trust members. The majority opinion on here matters. Itís a long way from the be all and end all and there are far greater elements of significance, but the opinion on here matters.

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
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« Reply #23909 on: January 15, 2019, 11:25:43 am »

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
Again agreed, but I still think the opinion on here matters.
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Boring Bar Steward
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« Reply #23910 on: January 15, 2019, 11:26:59 am »

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
Do you know when there will be feedback from the questions to the Council and Club?
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meccanostand
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« Reply #23911 on: January 15, 2019, 11:27:56 am »

Do you know when there will be feedback from the questins to the Council and club?

Working on that at the minute. Will update asap.
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cj
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« Reply #23912 on: January 15, 2019, 11:33:03 am »

A few hundred anonymous posters. How many use facebook, Twitter etc? There's a vast, quiet, match going majority who have to and will be consulted by any group worth their salt.
Where do you draw the line between someone you feel needs to be heard and someone who doesn't?
For example everyone who's ever attended a game at Sixfields, everyone on the club database, the public of northampton/shire as a whole, season ticket holders only, someone who attends a pre ordained number of games each season, people who can trace their support back longer than ? seasons, trust members only, trust board members only, only those prepared to invest?...
Ive no idea what the answer is, but I'm aware that as in all aspects of life, those who shout loudest or protest the most aren't always the ones closest to the matter.
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« Reply #23913 on: January 15, 2019, 12:01:51 pm »

I wasn't actually including you in the 'we' so don' t get into a lather over it Kiss
Really not that interested in your love for non league grounds while we still retain our league position.

Taking the post in question you appear to assume that you speak for most on here; you don't have that mandate. You have some supporters but some of those have outlandish views so easy to ignore. It's a pity you resort to spiteful jibes on non league grounds. I don't think you have sufficient skills to push your agenda through. You struggle with your main opponent  - Melly. Whether this is due to limited expertise is up to you to clarify.
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guest3103
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« Reply #23914 on: January 15, 2019, 12:14:44 pm »

Taking the post in question you appear to assume that you speak for most on here; you don't have that mandate. You have some supporters but some of those have outlandish views so easy to ignore. It's a pity you resort to spiteful jibes on non league grounds. I don't think you have sufficient skills to push your agenda through. You struggle with your main opponent  - Melly. Whether this is due to limited  education or poorly developed IQ is up to you to clarify.


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« Reply #23915 on: January 15, 2019, 12:32:18 pm »

Your assumptions are nothing more than assumptions and as ever staggeringly misguided. Your refusal to embark on any balanced assessment whilst endearing mearly highlights the shortcomings in your credibility. However Iíll keep questioning your nonsense as long as you keep spouting it. You can evade as much as you like, they will keep coming right back at you. A claim of easily achievable, and I quote ďeasilyĒ 50% growth displays a level of incompetence rarely experienced in my professional life. However, whilst you keep attempting to influence the path of the club I love I will continue to expose your ridiculous jargon. Call it a labour of love.

I support you on this Melly. Keep at it!
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #23916 on: January 15, 2019, 12:58:11 pm »

I appreciate that Vintage and Iím not having a go Iím really not. What ever the ins and outs Worcester have invested a significant amount of money in the infrastructure because they believe it to be viable. All I am trying to point out is that it is not straight forward and you have to evaluate each case on its merits. The fact is that investment in the infrastructure at NTFC has a place. The decision about what to spend and when needs to be carefully planned but I would be part of the big picture and has a place. As I keep saying the major stumbling block is the capital. Beds would have you believe this an be achieved through increased attendance at the gate, food and beverage sales etc etc. But because we would have had no capital investment this would need to be achieved with Sixfields in its current state. However, he claims that this is the very thing that prevents us from increasing attendance etc. Itís the proverbial chicken and egg and is nothing more than total lunacy. This debate needs a dose of common sense and the bleeding obvious if it is going to gather momentum. Despite appearances I am not having a go at Beds either at the end of the day. I get frustrated because it detracts from what should be a discussion about realistic and viable options to drag the club out of what we universally accept is the endless cycle of being in the doldrums at best.
I have put forward what I believe is the very best all round solution for a way out of our never ending cycle of failure, a scheme that doesn't need multi billionaires but would  involve the whole town and support base which also gets local businesses involved and this by offering great value on corporate boxes should they buy off plan and for us regular supporters a chance to buy 3 year season tickets to help fund the capacity increase.
The future short fall in season tickets would be easily recovered by higher match day takings from playing out of league 2
Having all involved is essential, all being aware patience with the team during a transitional period is key for future success we can expect.
Other forms of fund raising / grants/ would run alongside to ensure others can also get involved ensuring targets are met.
It's a low risk investment, completed in stages so those willing to buy advanced ST/ corporate boxes know it benefits not only the club greatly but will  save them money in the long run.
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« Reply #23917 on: January 15, 2019, 13:14:29 pm »

I have put forward what I believe is the very best all round solution for a way out of our never ending cycle of failure, a scheme that doesn't need multi billionaires but would  involve the whole town and support base which also gets local businesses involved and this by offering great value on corporate boxes should they buy off plan and for us regular supporters a chance to buy 3 year season tickets to help fund the capacity increase.
The future short fall in season tickets would be easily recovered by higher match day takings from playing out of league 2
Having all involved is essential, all being aware patience with the team during a transitional period is key for future success we can expect.
Other forms of fund raising / grants/ would run alongside to ensure others can also get involved ensuring targets are met.
It's a low risk investment, completed in stages so those willing to buy advanced ST/ corporate boxes know it benefits not only the club greatly but will  save them money in the long run.
How many years would we have in order for the plan to work? If you're suggesting years 2 and 3 shortfall is made up with increased gates then that implies promotion would be required in year 1.
What happens if promotion isnt achieved within the time frame?
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« Reply #23918 on: January 15, 2019, 13:17:28 pm »

it obviously doesn't matter to most who the owners are so why should it matter if a group of fans and local business owners own and run the club?

Ultimately we can't be in much of a worse position and we have 7 years until our next promotion (history would suggest) so perhaps in that time those who love the club can get it to a state where, upon promotion we can actually keep growing and improving.

Those like Evers have had 50 years of what they seem to want, IT'S TIME FOR CHANGE.

Those that think that just getting new players in are also clearly wrong, we need infrastructure and goodwill that lasts more than 12 months. Their ideas have been blown out of the water as only 2 short seasons after winning by 13 points we are struggling back in League 2. We need a sustained effort to improve every single aspect of our club and DEMAND better. KT doesn't want to do it so please get out of the way and give it to those that do, afterall KT you have said on more than one occasion you want to do the right thing for the people of Northampton  
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« Reply #23919 on: January 15, 2019, 14:01:19 pm »

How many years would we have in order for the plan to work? If you're suggesting years 2 and 3 shortfall is made up with increased gates then that implies promotion would be required in year 1.
What happens if promotion isnt achieved within the time frame?
Playing division 4 football is not an option.
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