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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Deepcut Cobbler
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« Reply #24240 on: March 05, 2019, 11:05:27 am »

Well... Let me give you an idea how.

Even if fan ownership is achieved the club will stand just as still as it is now, unless they can do something that no club has ever done in lower league football without significant external investment. Namely, make money from gate receipts alone. By making that parcel of land an asset of community value, it most likely will deter external investment into building on it. It's bad enough that you've got to encourage someone to buy a football club that won't show a return on its own. Let along invite in all sorts of covenants around building on the land.

A fan ownership model under any guise, has to be based on bringing in another owner at some point. So in many respects the club will be in exactly the same position if owned by fans, as it is today. The only major advantage, is that supporters will negotiate from our perspective, as opposed form a quick buck, or corporate laden perspective.

I have said all along that I quite like the idea of fan ownership. But I'm under no illusions that unless they hit the ground running and attract significant investment early doors, they won't last five minutes. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest they will not enjoy the luxury of an honeymoon period at all. The Trusts current mantra is that anything has to be better than just sitting dead in the water going nowhere, with no information on the way forward. The moment they sit in that hot seat, they will need a serious TRANSPARENT plan on investment and the way forward. Most of the staff that they anticipate taking over haven't managed that in years.

The meeting at the Park Inn cannot be about what people think they know about the current situation. Like or not, results are not terrible. We have maintained league status, we as far as I am aware are solvent. Certainly the club is trading as solvent. In addition to that, but probably most importantly.. NOBODY actually knows the truth. The only issue is that none of us have a clue about the way forward for the club. And it appears that KT has no intention of developing a supporter inclusive culture. That's his choice. So the Trust have the rather daunting task of presenting examples of investment paths. As well as giving us an idea of where they believe they can improve things.

This as far as I'm aware, has never been done. We are not talking about saving a business from the brink of oblivion. We are not out shaking buckets. All of the staff are being paid. The club is competitive. Maybe not as competitive as we would like, but competitive. As far as I am aware, and I know a few of the staff, they are not unhappy with KT. There hasn't been any significant unrest from the main body of the support. So this is a relatively unique set of circumstances. It is an attractive option, but there is definitely unrest between the Trust and the club, or KT. We as supporters have to be sure that we are not part of that agenda. It has to be a stand alone proposition, that can attract support and investment through its own merit, and not because we don't like what we currently have. I am happy to listen to the invited guests. But I am equally aware that their situation shares no parallel with ours.

I am looking forward to something tangible. Something that is transparent. Like most supporters, I am very frustrated with false dawns and what seems to be a perpetual state of inertia at NTFC. But I am equally aware that this is not a recent advent, or indeed unique to us as a club. In fact lack of progress without significant investment appears to be the norm for nearly all lower league clubs.  

A top post, that will inevitably be picked apart by the usual suspects...
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« Reply #24241 on: March 05, 2019, 11:53:47 am »

That’s a really good post Tel - it sums up my feelings a lot more eloquently than I could put it. It just seems to me that some are hijacking this movement with personal agendas.
I'm struggling to turn up for home games at the moment, totally fed up of the current lack of plans, inactivity, lack of transparency , the club distantancing itself from the support base and town in general.
This is not an agenda this is how it is, I can only assume you under the belief you are a personal friend of the chairman, who has totally charmed you into believing he was genuinely going to seek the investment that holds our club back?
Never forget, it's the loyal supporters that keep this club going and if it was the case that a community run club were to get off the ground, I'd suspect turnover would increase by 50% in all departments.
KT and co only spent to avoid dropping into the 4th tier, which failed miserably costing the club over £1m in lost revenues.
We dont need them,  we have more than enough Towns folk to push our club forward.
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« Reply #24242 on: March 05, 2019, 12:15:38 pm »

I'm struggling to turn up for home games at the moment, totally fed up of the current lack of plans, inactivity, lack of transparency , the club distantancing itself from the support base and town in general.
This is not an agenda this is how it is, I can only assume you under the belief you are a personal friend of the chairman, who has totally charmed you into believing he was genuinely going to seek the investment that holds our club back?
Never forget, it's the loyal supporters that keep this club going and if it was the case that a community run club were to get off the ground, I'd suspect turnover would increase by 50% in all departments.
KT and co only spent to avoid dropping into the 4th tier, which failed miserably costing the club over £1m in lost revenues.
We dont need them,  we have more than enough Towns folk to push our club forward.

That’s interesting, when I was alluding to people on here with agendas I wasn’t actually referring to you, I just tend to ignore your posts as you just repeat the same thing ad nauseum and show no interest in doing anything constructive or that requires coming out from behind your keyboard.
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« Reply #24243 on: March 05, 2019, 12:43:04 pm »

And it appears that KT has no intention of developing a supporter inclusive culture.

Completely disagree with this.

KT is incredibly approachable either via email or Facebook messenger, and has met many fans on a 1 to 1 basis to discuss whatever topics are burning over his time.

We've also got the advisory panel, which is just about as democratic an organisation as we could think of. No barriers to entry whatsoever apart from showing up at a meeting with the Chairman, CEO and SLO.

On the safe standing point, the club has/is planning to reach out to impacted N Stand ST holders to canvas views before pushing ahead.

We've had the Sixfields Travel collaborations around discounted away travel.

The only thing I have seen KT push back on is giving the Trust some sort of exclusivity clause as sole representatives of "the fans", when their own membership doesn't even cover a quarter of our average home gate.
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« Reply #24244 on: March 05, 2019, 13:11:11 pm »

A top post, that will inevitably be picked apart by the usual suspects...

Yes an interesting post as is a reasonable response from Clarkie of Milton Keynes Icerink fame!
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« Reply #24245 on: March 05, 2019, 13:42:34 pm »

Well... Let me give you an idea how.

Even if fan ownership is achieved the club will stand just as still as it is now, unless they can do something that no club has ever done in lower league football without significant external investment. Namely, make money from gate receipts alone. By making that parcel of land an asset of community value, it most likely will deter external investment into building on it. It's bad enough that you've got to encourage someone to buy a football club that won't show a return on its own. Let along invite in all sorts of covenants around building on the land.

A fan ownership model under any guise, has to be based on bringing in another owner at some point. So in many respects the club will be in exactly the same position if owned by fans, as it is today. The only major advantage, is that supporters will negotiate from our perspective, as opposed form a quick buck, or corporate laden perspective.

I have said all along that I quite like the idea of fan ownership. But I'm under no illusions that unless they hit the ground running and attract significant investment early doors, they won't last five minutes. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest they will not enjoy the luxury of an honeymoon period at all. The Trusts current mantra is that anything has to be better than just sitting dead in the water going nowhere, with no information on the way forward. The moment they sit in that hot seat, they will need a serious TRANSPARENT plan on investment and the way forward. Most of the staff that they anticipate taking over haven't managed that in years.

The meeting at the Park Inn cannot be about what people think they know about the current situation. Like or not, results are not terrible. We have maintained league status, we as far as I am aware are solvent. Certainly the club is trading as solvent. In addition to that, but probably most importantly.. NOBODY actually knows the truth. The only issue is that none of us have a clue about the way forward for the club. And it appears that KT has no intention of developing a supporter inclusive culture. That's his choice. So the Trust have the rather daunting task of presenting examples of investment paths. As well as giving us an idea of where they believe they can improve things.

This as far as I'm aware, has never been done. We are not talking about saving a business from the brink of oblivion. We are not out shaking buckets. All of the staff are being paid. The club is competitive. Maybe not as competitive as we would like, but competitive. As far as I am aware, and I know a few of the staff, they are not unhappy with KT. There hasn't been any significant unrest from the main body of the support. So this is a relatively unique set of circumstances. It is an attractive option, but there is definitely unrest between the Trust and the club, or KT. We as supporters have to be sure that we are not part of that agenda. It has to be a stand alone proposition, that can attract support and investment through its own merit, and not because we don't like what we currently have. I am happy to listen to the invited guests. But I am equally aware that their situation shares no parallel with ours.

I am looking forward to something tangible. Something that is transparent. Like most supporters, I am very frustrated with false dawns and what seems to be a perpetual state of inertia at NTFC. But I am equally aware that this is not a recent advent, or indeed unique to us as a club. In fact lack of progress without significant investment appears to be the norm for nearly all lower league clubs.  
Yes, despite all these away wins...been stuck in 16th place for what seems like an eternity!  Wink
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« Reply #24246 on: March 05, 2019, 14:43:57 pm »

That’s interesting, when I was alluding to people on here with agendas I wasn’t actually referring to you, I just tend to ignore your posts as you just repeat the same thing ad nauseum and show no interest in doing anything constructive or that requires coming out from behind your keyboard.
How You can defend Thomas when in 3 plus years hasn't offered a single well thought out plan as to get our club moving in the right direction allowing us to become a football club worthy of such a vast catchment?
It's my belief he surrounded himself with our more agreeable fan base that continues to heap praise on him despite him donning his emperor's new suit!
'A football man' my ar5e.
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« Reply #24247 on: March 05, 2019, 14:44:22 pm »

Completely disagree with this.

KT is incredibly approachable either via email or Facebook messenger, and has met many fans on a 1 to 1 basis to discuss whatever topics are burning over his time.

We've also got the advisory panel, which is just about as democratic an organisation as we could think of. No barriers to entry whatsoever apart from showing up at a meeting with the Chairman, CEO and SLO.

On the safe standing point, the club has/is planning to reach out to impacted N Stand ST holders to canvas views before pushing ahead.

We've had the Sixfields Travel collaborations around discounted away travel.

The only thing I have seen KT push back on is giving the Trust some sort of exclusivity clause as sole representatives of "the fans", when their own membership doesn't even cover a quarter of our average home gate.

It appears you have misunderstood my point. Or I didn't make that aspect of it very clear  Smiley I am talking from the perspective of the Trust and its inclusion into the way the club steers itself. I have found KT to be exceptionally approachable. In fact I have a lot of respect for him and those that work with him. I do think that he could have limited a lot of the current damage had he considered having the Trust involved in some way. But equally I find the Trust to be as entitled as KT is at times.

The bottom line is this. If you choose to challenge KT you are told to go and see him in person. I have done this a few times. At the risk of opening the floodgates, he is very open. He does show what I would accept clear evidence of ongoing discussion. But you have to go and see him in person. But let's be clear here. Both him and the Trust have operated for some time under the same cloak and dagger agenda. When I have asked the Trust to open and honest about their discussions with the council etc, they have refused to divulge the details of their meetings. You can actually here Andy Roberts say on the podcast, that it wouldn't be fair for him to divulge the content of those meetings. Every time I have asked the Trust for details on their proposals or information on their ongoing discussion with involved parties, they have offered to either meet in person, or have been told I need to join the board.

The bottom line is neither of hem have helped themselves at times. They both behave as if they have had their fingers burnt in the past. Perhaps they have.

One thing that's for sure... Nobody should be foolish enough to think that KT doesn't have a trump card up his sleeve..
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« Reply #24248 on: March 05, 2019, 14:47:31 pm »

How You can defend Thomas when in 3 plus years hasn't offered a single well thought out plan as to get our club moving in the right direction allowing us to become a football club worthy of such a vast catchment?
It's my belief he surrounded himself with our more agreeable fan base that continues to heap praise on him despite him donning his emperor's new suit!
'A football man' my ar5e.

He is worthy of one accolade.. He has completely destroyed any chance of you ever getting him out of your head. You can sense the utter loathing and hatred you have for him in every post mate. And you can sense in building up to bursting point.  Grin Grin

I can see you ending on a section by the end of this  Grin
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« Reply #24249 on: March 05, 2019, 14:58:43 pm »

How You can defend Thomas when in 3 plus years hasn't offered a single well thought out plan as to get our club moving in the right direction allowing us to become a football club worthy of such a vast catchment?
It's my belief he surrounded himself with our more agreeable fan base that continues to heap praise on him despite him donning his emperor's new suit!
'A football man' my ar5e.

Good old Beds - if in doubt/you are challenged cut and paste. I don’t recall saying anywhere that I’m defending KT but if it makes you feel better then fine.
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« Reply #24250 on: March 05, 2019, 15:20:38 pm »

He is worthy of one accolade.. He has completely destroyed any chance of you ever getting him out of your head. You can sense the utter loathing and hatred you have for him in every post mate. And you can sense in building up to bursting point.  Grin Grin

I can see you ending on a section by the end of this  Grin
Grin I can assure you no hatred towards anyone and my mental well being is healthy and not affected  by the past 20 years of poor ownership!
Our latest period of inactivity has come as no surprise to me, I had his cards marked at the American preacher style presentations,  the ribbon cutting to a bog door and over exageration of some other small stuff during the first month of his tenure.
I actually witnessed him signing autographs and taking selfies I kid you not!
Way back then you could sense smokescreening of the plans we lacked and needed, were not forthcoming and 3 long years later, he is still here without a plan!

We can all agree we're  overdue a change in direction, the thought of this lot again rocking up in August without any plans is laughable.
I'm backing the trust and will be present down the Saxon inn on Sunday.
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« Reply #24251 on: March 05, 2019, 15:32:51 pm »


We can all agree we're  overdue a change in direction, the thought of this lot again rocking up in August without any plans is laughable.
I'm backing the trust and will be present down the Saxon inn on Sunday.

The new or the old one?
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« Reply #24252 on: March 05, 2019, 17:20:50 pm »

Well... Let me give you an idea how.

Even if fan ownership is achieved the club will stand just as still as it is now, unless they can do something that no club has ever done in lower league football without significant external investment. Namely, make money from gate receipts alone. By making that parcel of land an asset of community value, it most likely will deter external investment into building on it. It's bad enough that you've got to encourage someone to buy a football club that won't show a return on its own. Let along invite in all sorts of covenants around building on the land.

A fan ownership model under any guise, has to be based on bringing in another owner at some point. So in many respects the club will be in exactly the same position if owned by fans, as it is today. The only major advantage, is that supporters will negotiate from our perspective, as opposed form a quick buck, or corporate laden perspective.

I have said all along that I quite like the idea of fan ownership. But I'm under no illusions that unless they hit the ground running and attract significant investment early doors, they won't last five minutes. In fact, I would go so far as to suggest they will not enjoy the luxury of an honeymoon period at all. The Trusts current mantra is that anything has to be better than just sitting dead in the water going nowhere, with no information on the way forward. The moment they sit in that hot seat, they will need a serious TRANSPARENT plan on investment and the way forward. Most of the staff that they anticipate taking over haven't managed that in years.

The meeting at the Park Inn cannot be about what people think they know about the current situation. Like or not, results are not terrible. We have maintained league status, we as far as I am aware are solvent. Certainly the club is trading as solvent. In addition to that, but probably most importantly.. NOBODY actually knows the truth. The only issue is that none of us have a clue about the way forward for the club. And it appears that KT has no intention of developing a supporter inclusive culture. That's his choice. So the Trust have the rather daunting task of presenting examples of investment paths. As well as giving us an idea of where they believe they can improve things.

This as far as I'm aware, has never been done. We are not talking about saving a business from the brink of oblivion. We are not out shaking buckets. All of the staff are being paid. The club is competitive. Maybe not as competitive as we would like, but competitive. As far as I am aware, and I know a few of the staff, they are not unhappy with KT. There hasn't been any significant unrest from the main body of the support. So this is a relatively unique set of circumstances. It is an attractive option, but there is definitely unrest between the Trust and the club, or KT. We as supporters have to be sure that we are not part of that agenda. It has to be a stand alone proposition, that can attract support and investment through its own merit, and not because we don't like what we currently have. I am happy to listen to the invited guests. But I am equally aware that their situation shares no parallel with ours.

I am looking forward to something tangible. Something that is transparent. Like most supporters, I am very frustrated with false dawns and what seems to be a perpetual state of inertia at NTFC. But I am equally aware that this is not a recent advent, or indeed unique to us as a club. In fact lack of progress without significant investment appears to be the norm for nearly all lower league clubs.  


'Even if fan ownership is achieved the club will stand just as still as it is now, unless they can do something that no club has ever done in lower league football without significant external investment. Namely, make money from gate receipts alone.' No league club could possibly do this and I am sure a fan-owned club would not expect to.

'there is definitely unrest between the Trust and the club, or KT. We as supporters have to be sure that we are not part of that agenda' - the whole point of the trust is that it represents the supporters.
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« Reply #24253 on: March 05, 2019, 20:23:34 pm »


'Even if fan ownership is achieved the club will stand just as still as it is now, unless they can do something that no club has ever done in lower league football without significant external investment. Namely, make money from gate receipts alone.' No league club could possibly do this and I am sure a fan-owned club would not expect to.

'there is definitely unrest between the Trust and the club, or KT. We as supporters have to be sure that we are not part of that agenda' - the whole point of the trust is that it represents the supporters.

Well.. You've managed to state the obvious. The Trust represents its membership. Not the supporters. There are roughly 4000 odd supporters on match days who haven’t in any way endorsed the Trusts perspective on anything thus far. That’s not to say they agree with anything KT does.
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« Reply #24254 on: March 05, 2019, 20:24:13 pm »

The new or the old one?
The old ones were killed off by their inability to stay out of Cardozas pocket or get into the faces of these latest lot.
The new trust are more objectionable and have shown they have a route map for our club to follow, which doesnt involve any more council blaming and time wasting.
Hope that helps Wink
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« Reply #24255 on: March 05, 2019, 20:28:30 pm »

The old ones were killed off by their inability to stay out of Cardozas pocket or get into the faces of these latest lot.
The new trust are more objectionable and have shown they have a route map for our club to follow, which doesnt involve any more council blaming and time wasting.
Hope that helps Wink

I’m pretty sure you mean “objective” and not “objectionable” - they mean very different things, although to be fair who knows?
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« Reply #24256 on: March 05, 2019, 20:50:28 pm »

Well.. You've managed to state the obvious. The Trust represents its membership. Not the supporters. There are roughly 4000 odd supporters on match days who haven’t in any way endorsed the Trusts perspective on anything thus far. That’s not to say they agree with anything KT does.
Do you need to be a member before declaring your support for the Trust then?
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« Reply #24257 on: March 05, 2019, 21:27:37 pm »

Do you need to be a member before declaring your support for the Trust then?

I suspect you know the answer to that...  Grin

I’m a member. But if I wasn't I would still endorse their current stance. Competition is good for the soul. The club needs a bit of a shake up. What will come of it all, I don’t know.

Normally we’re fighting either promotion or the drop. With league status all but secure, it’s good to have another side show to watch.

Like I said before. I’m still pretty confident that KT has an ace up his sleeve...
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« Reply #24258 on: March 05, 2019, 22:11:59 pm »

The old ones were killed off by their inability to stay out of Cardozas pocket or get into the faces of these latest lot.
The new trust are more objectionable and have shown they have a route map for our club to follow, which doesnt involve any more council blaming and time wasting.
Hope that helps Wink

I didn't realise we had a new Trust.
Was our membership transferred across or do we have to re-join?
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« Reply #24259 on: March 06, 2019, 07:56:33 am »

It appears you have misunderstood my point. Or I didn't make that aspect of it very clear  Smiley I am talking from the perspective of the Trust and its inclusion into the way the club steers itself. I have found KT to be exceptionally approachable. In fact I have a lot of respect for him and those that work with him. I do think that he could have limited a lot of the current damage had he considered having the Trust involved in some way. But equally I find the Trust to be as entitled as KT is at times.

The bottom line is this. If you choose to challenge KT you are told to go and see him in person. I have done this a few times. At the risk of opening the floodgates, he is very open. He does show what I would accept clear evidence of ongoing discussion. But you have to go and see him in person. But let's be clear here. Both him and the Trust have operated for some time under the same cloak and dagger agenda. When I have asked the Trust to open and honest about their discussions with the council etc, they have refused to divulge the details of their meetings. You can actually here Andy Roberts say on the podcast, that it wouldn't be fair for him to divulge the content of those meetings. Every time I have asked the Trust for details on their proposals or information on their ongoing discussion with involved parties, they have offered to either meet in person, or have been told I need to join the board.

The bottom line is neither of hem have helped themselves at times. They both behave as if they have had their fingers burnt in the past. Perhaps they have.

One thing that's for sure... Nobody should be foolish enough to think that KT doesn't have a trump card up his sleeve..
Trump card my arse Tel  Grin Grin Grin Grin
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