The Hotel End
October 15, 2019, 02:11:26 am
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
 
  Home Help Search Arcade Gallery Links Staff List Calendar Login Register  

Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

Pages: 1 ... 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 [1285] 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 ... 1296   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1009685 times)
DrillingCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4645


View Profile
« Reply #25680 on: September 20, 2019, 13:44:21 pm »

Some interesting numbers being trotted out to rubbish Beds which is unkind.  I agree with his sentiments if not his figures.

You can quote figures from the large majority of EFL clubs and the conclusion has to be the financial performance  generally throughout the leagues is awful, the stuff of nightmares for the likes of Melbourne.  

The latest figures available are for the 2017-2018 season and looking up the EFL ladder only 2 clubs in the Championship reported operating and pre-tax profits, Burton and Hull City. The losses of the other clubs are substantial.  The average income for clubs in the 3 divisions is Championship £31m, L1 £6M and L2 £4m.  In L1, which is probably the highest level NTFC can expect to achieve in the near future pre-tax losses doubled to £81m which equates to an average loss of £3.375,000 per club.  One other interesting and worrying statistic is that the wages to revenue ration in L1 was a frightening 94% and in L2 78%.  Not healthy reading.

That is why I posted a week ago that to my mind the ownership model of the private limited company owned by an individual or same number of individuals is broken and needs to be changed.    

As a club NTFC could and should make more of its catchment area.  The club attracts about 2% of the population to home matches and that is dismal.  Of course, success on the pitch has to be a critical factor in improving numbers but any success has to be sustained with much better infrastructure and planning.  Then the people of Northampton will become more interested, newcomers included. Part of achieving that has to be much better connections with and participation with Northampton residents and Northampton businesses.  Down the road at MK the owner there is embarking on a bold venture to converting National Bowl into a training facility with 12 pitches and a community hub for use 365 days a year.  This from an owner who has incurred losses twice that of our owners.  Meanwhile at Moulton College……………………………..

Good post. Burton, complete one off fluke. They even managed to get there with JFH sowing the seeds!  Grin In all seriousness though, Im convinced that having arguably the best training facilities in the country means they can box way above their natural level,  enabling them to bring in players looking 'at the long game' rather than the short term extra cash. I sat with JFH at the sponsors evening a couple of seasons back, he was on our table. I had a really long chat about his time at Burton and he couldn't make the point more forcefully that their training facilities gave them a huge advantage over other clubs. Hard to argue to be fair! With regards to Hull, parachute payments combined with chairman pulling the £ plug Id guess is the answer to that one!



Report Spam   Logged
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 602


View Profile
« Reply #25681 on: September 20, 2019, 14:45:31 pm »

I apologise profusely to all those that will hate this post but as a Chartered Accountant it grinds away with me when financials are commented on so here we go;

MK Dons

MK Dons is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stadium MK Group Limited. There are cross-guarantees in place and letters of support have been lodged as appropriate.

Stadium MK Group Limited as at the time of it's last set of approved financial statements (June 30th 2018) had Net Assets of 73.578 million pounds sterling (sorry the pound figure on my keyboard isn't working - probably too upset). Following the year end (and not adjusted for in the figures already quoted) land with a net book value of 4.319 million pounds sterling was sold for 11 million pounds sterling.

Conclusion = MK Dons are an in an enviable position financially.

PS The controlling and ultimate controlling party is considered to be Mr P Winkelman by virtue of his shareholding in Stadium MK Group Limited.

Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 289


View Profile
« Reply #25682 on: September 20, 2019, 15:57:58 pm »

I apologise profusely to all those that will hate this post but as a Chartered Accountant it grinds away with me when financials are commented on so here we go;

MK Dons

MK Dons is a wholly owned subsidiary of Stadium MK Group Limited. There are cross-guarantees in place and letters of support have been lodged as appropriate.

Stadium MK Group Limited as at the time of it's last set of approved financial statements (June 30th 2018) had Net Assets of 73.578 million pounds sterling (sorry the pound figure on my keyboard isn't working - probably too upset). Following the year end (and not adjusted for in the figures already quoted) land with a net book value of 4.319 million pounds sterling was sold for 11 million pounds sterling.

Conclusion = MK Dons are an in an enviable position financially.

PS The controlling and ultimate controlling party is considered to be Mr P Winkelman by virtue of his shareholding in Stadium MK Group Limited.


If only we had some land to sell to wipe out our losses? As a side note despite the bad news about MKs financial position that is one of the funniest posts I have read on here. A chartered accountant with a pound sign that doesn’t work must be somewhat frustrating and inconvenient?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 16:20:30 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although I refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
EB Claret
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 40


View Profile
« Reply #25683 on: September 20, 2019, 16:17:47 pm »

If only we had some land to sell to wipe out our losses?

KT says that all proceeds from land developments will go to the football club, is that true? After years of reading peoples views on the man I still have no idea. Safe to assume all (any) proceeds will not be on the same scale as at MK, b*st@rds!
Report Spam   Logged
DrillingCobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4645


View Profile
« Reply #25684 on: September 20, 2019, 16:20:09 pm »

KT says that all proceeds from land developments will go to the football club, is that true? After years of reading peoples views on the man I still have no idea. Safe to assume all (any) proceeds will not be on the same scale as at MK, b*st@rds!

I think he said 'would benefit the football club and the wider community as a whole' or something like that...

Report Spam   Logged
EB Claret
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 40


View Profile
« Reply #25685 on: September 20, 2019, 16:23:55 pm »

I think he said 'would benefit the football club and the wider community as a whole' or something like that...



Correct, benefit was the word he used.
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 289


View Profile
« Reply #25686 on: September 20, 2019, 16:48:30 pm »

This whole thread has taken a surreal twist for me. Truth be told despite being described as a so called “expert” I don’t understand our own accounts that well. That’s why I employ 2 firms of accountants, one in Northampton, one in Sydney (a bit like the Trotter brothers, London, Paris, Peckham) Following Forevers revelation regarding his misfortune I am absolutely convinced he is my accountant? Thats not you AR is it? I’ve been frantically checking my emails and can’t find a pound sign anywhere? If it is, you need to change your keyboard back to UK dopey.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 16:50:17 pm by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although I refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
BedsCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2515


View Profile
« Reply #25687 on: September 20, 2019, 17:31:57 pm »

KT says that all proceeds from land developments will go to the football club, is that true? After years of reading peoples views on the man I still have no idea. Safe to assume all (any) proceeds will not be on the same scale as at MK, b*st@rds!
I've had a direct response from Thomas on a local radio station when I asked if the land would benefit the enabling of the clubs infrastructure,  to which he replied that the land was privately owned and separate from the club.
It was a very garbled response but that was the jist of it as I understood it.
Report Spam   Logged
BedsCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2515


View Profile
« Reply #25688 on: September 20, 2019, 18:23:54 pm »

I fully believe our club will one day soon become a competent challenging L1 outfit with real Championship ambition,  obviously it would require the present owners to sell,  but I dont buy into Melbourne or Drillings belief that you have to start with £30m to lump at it.
A decade of steady year on year growth that's well planned, structured, involving everyone and everything at hand, would prove to be far more long term beneficial than a consortium or rich individual lumping 30 large at his new plaything.

Report Spam   Logged
CobblerForever
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 602


View Profile
« Reply #25689 on: September 20, 2019, 18:24:23 pm »

This whole thread has taken a surreal twist for me. Truth be told despite being described as a so called “expert” I don’t understand our own accounts that well. That’s why I employ 2 firms of accountants, one in Northampton, one in Sydney (a bit like the Trotter brothers, London, Paris, Peckham) Following Forevers revelation regarding his misfortune I am absolutely convinced he is my accountant? Thats not you AR is it? I’ve been frantically checking my emails and can’t find a pound sign anywhere? If it is, you need to change your keyboard back to UK dopey.

Your Financial Statements will be prepared on the basis of providing the minimum information subject to the law and applicable accounting standards unless you have asked specifically for additional information to be provided.

Your Tax computations should be reconcilable to these financial statements so that the tax authorities can accept them. Your Tax Inspector will expect to see this as part of your computations.

I would want my accountant to provide me with a reconciliation between my management accounts and my annual financial statements. Usually (and as a minimum) this would include a reconciliation between your profit per your management accounts and the profit per your financial statements.

I'm sure you know this though.

I'm not AR.
Report Spam   Logged
Horsham Cobbler
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 188


"I'm not a gynaecologist, but I'll take a look"


View Profile
« Reply #25690 on: September 20, 2019, 20:18:13 pm »

I fully believe our club will one day soon become a competent challenging L1 outfit with real Championship ambition,  obviously it would require the present owners to sell,  but I dont buy into Melbourne or Drillings belief that you have to start with £30m to lump at it.
A decade of steady year on year growth that's well planned, structured, involving everyone and everything at hand, would prove to be far more long term beneficial than a consortium or rich individual lumping 30 large at his new plaything.



…… "OR HER" new plaything.
Report Spam   Logged
SadOldGit
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 420


View Profile
« Reply #25691 on: September 20, 2019, 21:24:08 pm »

Or, following the obvious inferences, our joyful ****!
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 289


View Profile
« Reply #25692 on: September 20, 2019, 21:57:49 pm »

I fully believe our club will one day soon become a competent challenging L1 outfit with real Championship ambition,  obviously it would require the present owners to sell,  but I dont buy into Melbourne or Drillings belief that you have to start with £30m to lump at it.
A decade of steady year on year growth that's well planned, structured, involving everyone and everything at hand, would prove to be far more long term beneficial than a consortium or rich individual lumping 30 large at his new plaything.


FFS you really are hopeless with figures aren’t you, at no point have I said 30 million. The actual figure was 15 million minimum. Anyway, you were the one who asked for the comparison with Luton. According to the submitted accounts they have been pledged 18 million in share capital. Since you’re local you’d be better placed popping round and finding out how they managed that than arguing with me?
Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although I refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
Melbourne Cobbler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 289


View Profile
« Reply #25693 on: September 20, 2019, 22:01:45 pm »

Your Financial Statements will be prepared on the basis of providing the minimum information subject to the law and applicable accounting standards unless you have asked specifically for additional information to be provided.

Your Tax computations should be reconcilable to these financial statements so that the tax authorities can accept them. Your Tax Inspector will expect to see this as part of your computations.

I would want my accountant to provide me with a reconciliation between my management accounts and my annual financial statements. Usually (and as a minimum) this would include a reconciliation between your profit per your management accounts and the profit per your financial statements.

I'm sure you know this though.

I'm not AR.
Now I am disappointed, mind you I should have guessed, you sound like you know what you are doing.
Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although I refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
BedsCobb
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2515


View Profile
« Reply #25694 on: September 21, 2019, 00:35:50 am »

FFS you really are hopeless with figures aren’t you, at no point have I said 30 million. The actual figure was 15 million minimum. Anyway, you were the one who asked for the comparison with Luton. According to the submitted accounts they have been pledged 18 million in share capital. Since you’re local you’d be better placed popping round and finding out how they managed that than arguing with me?
I drive through power court every day and I'm familiar with the site at J10.
I've spoke with the directors and the chairman of Luton town and know the plans of their 20/20 consortium... Its you who is useless with figures believing Thomas's stealth dealings are ever going to be beneficial to our club.
Give over Melbourne, you're blowing it out your japs eye.
Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 289


View Profile
« Reply #25695 on: September 21, 2019, 03:54:40 am »

I drive through power court every day and I'm familiar with the site at J10.
I've spoke with the directors and the chairman of Luton town and know the plans of their 20/20 consortium... Its you who is useless with figures believing Thomas's stealth dealings are ever going to be beneficial to our club.
Give over Melbourne, you're blowing it out your japs eye.

once again the lines of communication appear to have broken down? I don’t believe KTs dealings are going to be beneficial for the club. Don’t shoot the messenger, you asked for a comparison between various clubs and NTFC as an example of targets to aspire to? I gave you the comparison and because the financial returns reveal that once again you’ve made a right cnnt of yourself you end up stamping your feet and throwing insults. Do something constructive for a change and ask your mates how they went about raising a share capital of 18 million and how they intend on repaying the investment? You never know it may prove more useful than sitting on a hill whimpering whilst trying to dry your eyes?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 04:04:15 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although I refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
Cordwainer2
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 607


View Profile
« Reply #25696 on: September 21, 2019, 07:33:00 am »

Why do I keep looking at this thread when its just total b*ll*cks? Its the hope that someone might post something sensible, useful or newsworthy. I am still waiting.
Report Spam   Logged
Vintage Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2358


View Profile
« Reply #25697 on: September 21, 2019, 08:43:54 am »

We are 2 months away from the 4th anniversary of DB/KT acquiring NTFC on the basis of a clear understanding with NBC that the East Stand would be finished, in return for which NBC forgave the club £10.25m of indebtedness and so saved NTFC from liquidation.  It was a bit more complicated than that but that is the essence of it.  For the past 4 years our owners have been finding reasons not to do what in 2015 they said they would do and they show no sign of honouring their commitment.

Whilst some can come on here and, if not intentionally, nevertheless provide some cover for KT in putting forward that there is no business case for completing the East Stand I would say that if that is so now it was also the situation when our owners took over NTFC in 2015.  They are supposedly seasoned businessmen and came into the ownership with no lack of knowledge.  They have let us down and continue to do so.  If that is alright with supporters I despair.  I can understand supporters being so hacked off with the endless situation that they would rather not bother at all.  Indifference and silence is exactly what our owners want as they progress their hidden plans for substantial personal profits from land that was never part of the original situation.  If supporters think our owners are acting in the "best interests" of the club let them demonstrate it.  The past 4 years has been shrouded in secrecy and obfuscation.  Ask yourselves the reason why. 

As I tried to show yesterday in providing some alarming figures from the performance of clubs’ across the EFL the football industry is a basket case economically.  I don’t endorse it and I for one advocates fundamental change but as the system stands clubs right across the football patch rely on the willingness of owners to invest significant amounts in the clubs they own to keep them alive and hopefully move their club forwards.  Therefore, with such reliance on owners there is an understandable tendency of the part of supporters of not being conspicuously critical or confrontational with owners, including bad ones, for fear of the owners’ toys coming out of the ‘pram and them walking away only for another unsatisfactory owner to arrive on the scene as a another white knight often full of wind.  Unless absolutely necessary and a financial crisis breaks out it is much easier for supporters to focus on what happens on the pitch and not stray outside the comfort zone.  That is where we are at Northampton. 

Not for the first time I would say wake up and smell the coffee.


Report Spam   Logged
Melbourne Cobbler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 289


View Profile
« Reply #25698 on: September 21, 2019, 09:05:23 am »

We are 2 months away from the 4th anniversary of DB/KT acquiring NTFC on the basis of a clear understanding with NBC that the East Stand would be finished, in return for which NBC forgave the club £10.25m of indebtedness and so saved NTFC from liquidation.  It was a bit more complicated than that but that is the essence of it.  For the past 4 years our owners have been finding reasons not to do what in 2015 they said they would do and they show no sign of honouring their commitment.

Whilst some can come on here and, if not intentionally, nevertheless provide some cover for KT in putting forward that there is no business case for completing the East Stand I would say that if that is so now it was also the situation when our owners took over NTFC in 2015.  They are supposedly seasoned businessmen and came into the ownership with no lack of knowledge.  They have let us down and continue to do so.  If that is alright with supporters I despair.  I can understand supporters being so hacked off with the endless situation that they would rather not bother at all.  Indifference and silence is exactly what our owners want as they progress their hidden plans for substantial personal profits from land that was never part of the original situation.  If supporters think our owners are acting in the "best interests" of the club let them demonstrate it.  The past 4 years has been shrouded in secrecy and obfuscation.  Ask yourselves the reason why. 

As I tried to show yesterday in providing some alarming figures from the performance of clubs’ across the EFL the football industry is a basket case economically.  I don’t endorse it and I for one advocates fundamental change but as the system stands clubs right across the football patch rely on the willingness of owners to invest significant amounts in the clubs they own to keep them alive and hopefully move their club forwards.  Therefore, with such reliance on owners there is an understandable tendency of the part of supporters of not being conspicuously critical or confrontational with owners, including bad ones, for fear of the owners’ toys coming out of the ‘pram and them walking away only for another unsatisfactory owner to arrive on the scene as a another white knight often full of wind.  Unless absolutely necessary and a financial crisis breaks out it is much easier for supporters to focus on what happens on the pitch and not stray outside the comfort zone.  That is where we are at Northampton. 

Not for the first time I would say wake up and smell the coffee.



TBH I would agree with that VC. I know I am guilty of yanking Beds chain a bit but I think this comes from a bit of frustration as well? Clearly the club has to move forward but from which ever angle you look at it there doesn’t seem to be a viable option? TBF when Beds came up with his comparative list I had a bit of a quick look and was a bit surprised myself that it was the same old story. Clubs that are supposed to be progressive are cloaked in a thin veneer and beneath it is the same old worrying financial position. It’s a bit chicken and egg I know but this can’t and won’t continue for ever. Left unchecked more and more clubs will start falling into the abyss, this is not scaremongering it’s a fact. Like those pyramid selling schemes that end with no one left to sell to, left unchecked eventually these clubs living beyond their means will reach the end of the financial road. That’s ok if it’s the owners money, more fool them. However, if it’s underwritten debt then these clubs will be in trouble. What do you do, do you try and follow and live the dream, or do you follow the path of abstinence and go to bed early while everyone else parties? I get it, I really do but just because it’s attractive it doesn’t make it either sustainable or right. So what is it to be, languish in league 2 whilst the other clubs shoot for the stars, or follow them and perhaps follow Bury into the abyss? That’s the choice and that’s why we are all arguing, trying to live the dream or avoid the nightmare?
« Last Edit: September 21, 2019, 09:07:42 am by Melbourne Cobbler » Report Spam   Logged

Chairman, Paul Stratford Fan Club, and proud member of the Steve Massey Appreciation Society. (Although I refuse to be in his fan club on account of his crap goal celebration in front of The Hotel End when playing for Wrexham)
Vintage Cobbler
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2358


View Profile
« Reply #25699 on: September 21, 2019, 09:12:58 am »

The choice Melbourne may be the way I am suggesting.  It is not panacea for all the problems facing us and the road ahead would definitively have serious challenges.

The saying goes that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  This is where we are in the world of English football club ownership with the current business model and, as regards ownership, specifically so at NTFC.
Report Spam   Logged
Pages: 1 ... 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 [1285] 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 ... 1296   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Parental guidance is urged as this messageboard may not be suitable for all persons especially those under the age of 16 as the forums may contain words, phrases and expressions not considered appropriate for a younger audience so please express caution. If any posts in the forums offend you, please let us know and we will look at them and if we agree with your complaint, we will remove them. You are personally responsible and potentially liable for the contents of your posting and may be sued should your posting contain content of a defamatory or other illegal nature. Every message posted leaves a traceable IP number. We check the forums at various times of the day and remove offending posts. Other supporters are welcome but abusive or silly posts will be removed and the offenders potentially barred from future access to the site. We advise that you never reveal any personal information about yourself or anyone else (for example: telephone number, home address or email address), and please do not include postal addresses of any kind. This messageboard is not endorsed or in any way affiliated with Northampton Town FC. All postings on this board become copyright of The Hotel End & may not be reproduced without the permission of the board administrator. By signing up to this message board you agree to this. The Hotel End cannot be held liable for the actions or postings of its members. The Hotel End reserve the right to edit, delete, move or close any thread for any reason. The Hotel End may disclose user information to government authorities at their discretion or when required by law. The Hotel End may also disclose user information when The Hotel End has reason to believe that someone is causing injury to or interference with its rights or property, other The Hotel End users, or anyone else that could be harmed by such activities. By registering for The Hotel End, you agree to indemnify The Hotel End its representatives, and agents, and hold them harmless from any and all claims (including claims for legal fees) which may arise from your participation on the The Hotel End. You also agree that The Hotel End is not responsible for the materials posted by users of The Hotel End. In addition, you grant The Hotel End and its affiliates, worldwide, royalty-free perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display any message or content posted on The Hotel End and/or e-mail sent by you to The Hotel End (in whole or in part). The Hotel End reserves the right to make the rules up as it goes along. Thank you - The Hotel End I love Quidco
Bookmark this site! | Upgrade This Forum
SMFServer.com - Create your own Forum

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy