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Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?

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Author Topic: Redevelopment Closer Than Ever?  (Read 1044558 times)
cobblerwatch
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« Reply #26000 on: December 04, 2019, 15:52:22 pm »

Beds - straight question - are Burton Albion one of the clubs that do things significantly better than those in charge of NTFC?
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« Reply #26001 on: December 04, 2019, 18:53:21 pm »

Interested to read about the plight of Wimbledon? Buried in the story was the revelation that the support base had raised quite a few million in an attempt to alleviate the financial pressure. Anyone have any knowledge of how this was achieved?
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« Reply #26002 on: December 04, 2019, 20:51:13 pm »

Beds - straight question - are Burton Albion one of the clubs that do things significantly better than those in charge of NTFC?
Burton, a small club from a town the size of Wellingbough not long up from the non league ..
How do I even answer that?
 For the Cobblers to match their exploits we would need to be established in the premiership!
I'm struggling to find another club that has done as little as us over the past 20 years.
This is a direct result of those time wasters we have had in charge.
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Terryfenwickatemyhamster
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« Reply #26003 on: December 04, 2019, 20:58:29 pm »

I believe its that he has offered nothing to the towns football club or its supporters to warrant the council giving him the time of day and not because of previous incumbents who hung around at our club hoping for a huge pay out.
I very grateful that they are now more astute.
They need to hold out and only offer the football club  the benefits from the land it stands on solely for the use of the club and not passers by on the make.

You, the Trust and a few others genuinely believe by repeating the same thing, that you are part of the solution. When in fact you are just repeating the problem. I genuinely hope one day, that someone will offer a tangible advance on that.
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #26004 on: December 04, 2019, 21:08:29 pm »

That's the problem with your argument, it's what you believe. It's not based on any facts or evidence.
I would hope the Council is now more astute, if you can't learn the lessons of giving away £10.25m then there is no hope!
I would think that every fan in the ground (or on the hill) looks at that East Stand at least once a game and wishes it were finished/different. So if you simply said that you wish KT would do something or sell up then everyone would agree instead of arguing with you.
You have obviously forgot or just unaware that the conditions of Thomas's take over was a mysterious £4m he was using to complete the East stand, that was over 4 years ago ! Now we have over £5.5m debts and nothing having happened at the east.
Anyone who thinks Thomas is going to build anything is going to be disappointed.
The good folk at the Council probably haven't forgot this renaged promise and would do well to break ties with him and wait for genuine owners who are only here for the good of the club and not on a personal land grabbing mission.
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« Reply #26005 on: December 04, 2019, 21:47:06 pm »

You have obviously forgot or just unaware that the conditions of Thomas's take over was a mysterious £4m he was using to complete the East stand,

No it wasn’t... The conditions were that no one other fcuker wanted it..  Grin Grin Grin
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« Reply #26006 on: December 04, 2019, 22:32:07 pm »

No it wasn’t... The conditions were that no one other fcuker wanted it..  Grin Grin Grin
Nigel are you having a meltdown ? You seem to try to pick an argument with certain posters whatever they post. You know very well that KT said he had "£4M Ringfenced" to complete the East and that was one of the reasons he was able to buy the club for the figure he did.
    You also know that there were others who wanted it, I think KT himself was quoted that there would have been a queue of people willing to buy NTFC with the deal he got.
     Also, whilst I'm posting, could you provide evidence of your statement "the Trust  genuinely believe by repeating the same thing, that you are part of the solution"    Smiley

   
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« Reply #26007 on: December 05, 2019, 07:10:07 am »

The land , the club , the debt and the east stand come together .
It’s an interesting concept that the land could be sold as a separate concern to the club with the proviso the East Stand is completed and the debt is cleared .
I have no idea if that is feasible .

Isn’t that exactly what enabling development is meant to be? I’m just bored of it all now.
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I think someone should just take this city of Peterborough and just... just flush it down the f***in' toilet
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« Reply #26008 on: December 05, 2019, 07:30:48 am »

No it wasn’t... The conditions were that no one other fcuker wanted it..  Grin Grin Grin


Rather than bicker amongst ourselves all of our attention should be directed at the failure of our owners to do what they said they would do. 

The following is from the Chronicle on 26 November 2015, the day after the KT led group took over control of the club:

“He (KT) said he and his investors intend to plough £4 million init the club in total, which would fund the rest of what has been previously reported as his “ambitious” plans for the East Stand development.”

In the same article KT is quoted as saying:

"This is a football club that has the opportunity to expand with a new stadium.”

4 years later………………………
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #26009 on: December 05, 2019, 10:49:09 am »

And KT did say in his "takeover interview" on the BBC that other parties had come out at the last minute after seeing the deal that KT and DB had managed to pull together...ie the Cardozas writing off the debt, the Council writing off the debt, and the only initial outlay being the payment of the outstanding HMRC bill.
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« Reply #26010 on: December 05, 2019, 12:16:51 pm »

Isn’t that exactly what enabling development is meant to be? I’m just bored of it all now.
Well , the two groups I know that expressed an interest in the sale had no interest in the football club whatsoever .
It’s about the land and only the land . The east stand and debt came as part of it .
There is no reason why the club couldn’t be run as a going concern by someone else once those issues were resolved . Everyone is then happy - the developer , the board and the supporters .....
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« Reply #26011 on: December 05, 2019, 12:44:01 pm »


Rather than bicker amongst ourselves all of our attention should be directed at the failure of our owners to do what they said they would do. 

The following is from the Chronicle on 26 November 2015, the day after the KT led group took over control of the club:

“He (KT) said he and his investors intend to plough £4 million init the club in total, which would fund the rest of what has been previously reported as his “ambitious” plans for the East Stand development.”

In the same article KT is quoted as saying:

"This is a football club that has the opportunity to expand with a new stadium.”

4 years later………………………

I think the key part there is "in total". It doesn't say that £4m has been ringfenced for the sole purpose of finishing the East Stand, which is what keeps getting touted around. Was that ever actually said? I seem to remember hearing it at some point too but it's entirely possible it was just misquoted from the article Vintage references here and has apocryphally become "a truth universally acknowledged".

Either way, KT and DB's critics are keen to point out that not only have they not finished the East Stand, they've saddled the club with £5m of debt in the form of director's loans. When you take this in tandem with what they originally said they'd plough into the club "in total" then it would appear they've actually spent considerably more on running the club than they originally planned to do! (or course, whether that money has been well spent is a different matter entirely...)
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BedsCobb
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« Reply #26012 on: December 05, 2019, 16:05:07 pm »

I think the key part there is "in total". It doesn't say that £4m has been ringfenced for the sole purpose of finishing the East Stand, which is what keeps getting touted around. Was that ever actually said? I seem to remember hearing it at some point too but it's entirely possible it was just misquoted from the article Vintage references here and has apocryphally become "a truth universally acknowledged".

Either way, KT and DB's critics are keen to point out that not only have they not finished the East Stand, they've saddled the club with £5m of debt in the form of director's loans. When you take this in tandem with what they originally said they'd plough into the club "in total" then it would appear they've actually spent considerably more on running the club than they originally planned to do! (or course, whether that money has been well spent is a different matter entirely...)
Those fans falling at his feet in a meet and greet shortly after he took over were left in no doubt he was fitting out the east stand...
Also at no time did he suggest he would drag the arse out of it for 5 years while spending nothing on the infrastructure,  get the club relegated and smash £5 plus millions into the clubs debt column either...
For me the end of the road for Thomas as one who can be taken serious as a football club chairman went after the 2nd month of him being in charge.
What's most surprising is, over 4 years later he's still here but keeping a very low profile these days Grin
Grin
Must be time for an update, eh chemical?
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GrangeParkCobbler
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« Reply #26013 on: December 05, 2019, 19:25:57 pm »

The bulk of the debt was brought in following the splurge of signings from July 2017 onwards (think Crooks, Facey, Turnbull, Van Veen, Bunney all on long term contracts) and then when Edinburgh was sacked and a big name was brought in to appease the Chinese backers. Hasselbaink wasn't cheap!!

The money from 5U never materialised and Bower loaned the club £2.5m through Belle De Jour

Nobody at the club has ever said what actually went wrong with the 5USports deal.......but in essence the club spunked the money in the hope or expectation that investment was coming....and it never did!
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« Reply #26014 on: December 05, 2019, 20:54:50 pm »

The bulk of the debt was brought in following the splurge of signings from July 2017 onwards (think Crooks, Facey, Turnbull, Van Veen, Bunney all on long term contracts) and then when Edinburgh was sacked and a big name was brought in to appease the Chinese backers. Hasselbaink wasn't cheap!!

The money from 5U never materialised and Bower loaned the club £2.5m through Belle De Jour

Nobody at the club has ever said what actually went wrong with the 5USports deal.......but in essence the club spunked the money in the hope or expectation that investment was coming....and it never did!

That's exactly how I see it.
Over £1m+ was spent putting the seats back into the East Stand, upgrades to the West stand such as the toilets, changing facilities for players and officials, club offices, shop and computer systems. Then the Chinese deal collapsed leaving Thomas and Bower with their fingers burned, a bit like the Council before them. The £5m+ debts are in effect monies that KT and DB owe to themselves.
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« Reply #26015 on: December 05, 2019, 20:59:53 pm »

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertkidd/2018/09/20/soccer-clubs-ask-fans-for-investment-but-promise-financial-return/
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« Reply #26016 on: December 05, 2019, 21:08:54 pm »

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/16184742.2017.1279203?scroll=top&needAccess=true&journalCode=resm20
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« Reply #26017 on: December 05, 2019, 21:23:17 pm »

I mean, after the previous capital was stolen, would you want to invest your money in an unsecured bond?
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« Reply #26018 on: December 05, 2019, 22:52:17 pm »

That's exactly how I see it.
Over £1m+ was spent putting the seats back into the East Stand, upgrades to the West stand such as the toilets, changing facilities for players and officials, club offices, shop and computer systems. Then the Chinese deal collapsed leaving Thomas and Bower with their fingers burned, a bit like the Council before them. The £5m+ debts are in effect monies that KT and DB owe to themselves.
it costs £60k to purchase and fit 1400 plastic seats. I remember at the time hearing it cost £250,000 from the club, causing my in built bull5hitometer to go off the scale.
For 1 million you could fit a dozen boxes and several hundred grand more for a basic shell fit out.
Just for clarity it would cost for a modest construction,
£2 m to expand the ground by 3000 to allow it to compete in L1. All that totals 1 James Collins or 2 john Marquis or an 1/8th of Ivan Toney.
Hope that helps.

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« Reply #26019 on: December 05, 2019, 23:31:09 pm »

it costs £60k to purchase and fit 1400 plastic seats. I remember at the time hearing it cost £250,000 from the club, causing my in built bull5hitometer to go off the scale.
For 1 million you could fit a dozen boxes and several hundred grand more for a basic shell fit out.
Just for clarity it would cost for a modest construction,
£2 m to expand the ground by 3000 to allow it to compete in L1. All that totals 1 James Collins or 2 john Marquis or an 1/8th of Ivan Toney.
Hope that helps.



Can you actually read before waffling?
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