GrangeParkCobbler
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Why doesn’t KT and the Board simply sell off the rights to the land on the proviso that the East Stand is completed and the debts written off . The club could then progress under KT or become a more saleable asset . There must be enough profit in the land to do this surely and it means the club is safeguarded from unscrupulous developers . Am I missing something ?
In fact they claim to have gone the other way....by tying the "rights to the land" to the club rather than the old standalone position with CDNL. I believe they did that to make the club a more saleable package.... After all the land is what the owners, present and past have been interested in....the Football Club has a times been an inconvenient sideshow.
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The Hotel End GTA Champion 2006/7, 2007/8, 2011/12, 2012/13 and 2018/19
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BedsCobb
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If Beds is claiming we lose 15,000 ticket sales per annum he is really saying we are losing something in the order of £300,000 per annum (assuming a gross ticket price of £24 with no concessions (£20 net of VAT). There will also be additional costs and revenues arising from this but let's say these additional items even themselves out.
The cost of redeveloping the East Stand = £4 million.
Rate of return 7.5% pa
Big Problem - we need a better paid side to get us into L1 (normally) and if we don't raise wages (management and players) we lose the very reason for our original promotion.
The additional costs (higher pay) would vastly exceed the £300k additional revenue.
Conclusion = Investment in new stand almost certainly a failure in financial terms.
PS The 300,000 catchment area point is flawed in so much as we have in Northampton a uniquely well regarded Rugby Union side that is very well supported by a significant number of the potential supporters in this 300,000 figure.
You missed one of the most important dealings of the teams in the lower echelons, and that is buying players and selling them off at large profits, this can virtually over turn a clubs fortune. As you suggest, being safely ensconced in L2 without a care in the world, wont attract very many of such quality . So yours and a few others preference for the basement division life is seriously flawed.
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singcobb
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You missed one of the most important dealings of the teams in the lower echelons, and that is buying players and selling them off at large profits, this can virtually over turn a clubs fortune. As you suggest, being safely ensconced in L2 without a care in the world, wont attract very many of such quality . So yours and a few others preference for the basement division life is seriously flawed.
And you have missed again answering my questions. You lack all credibilty sir and you should hang your head in shame.
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EB Claret
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You missed one of the most important dealings of the teams in the lower echelons, and that is buying players and selling them off at large profits, this can virtually over turn a clubs fortune. As you suggest, being safely ensconced in L2 without a care in the world, wont attract very many of such quality . So yours and a few others preference for the basement division life is seriously flawed.
What! Who Is!!! We all want to be Liverpool! but we are realistic, while you want to be Cloud Cuckoo Land FC.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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But yeah...KT does need to sort it out. Because that's what he told us he'd do and thats a key reason why the debt was written off and he secured the club in the first place. So the economic debate is utterly a side show.
IMO this debate has taken a bit of an interesting turn of focus. Can I ask a genuine hypothetical question of you Drilling? Imagine you had brought the club, ring fenced 4 million of your own money and expressed an intention to spend it on the East Stand to complete it. Now let’s suppose following the acquisition of the club, as he did, Chris Wilder left? Now lets also imagine the legal wrangles about the land associated with the stand were sorted within 18 months, but during that time the club has suffered 2 straight relegations and went out of the football league? Now in that hypothetical position, would you still spend the 4 million sitting in your bank on the ground of a non league club? If the answer is yes, congratulations you have balls of steel? If the answer is no, then whist I accept this was not the situation, you also should accept that any financial commitment is dependant on the conditions at the time you fulfil that commitment, and that is subjective? Therefore, it could be argued that it is reasonable that the current owners re-evaluated their commitment according to the current circumstances and not those made at the time the acquisition occurred? So as a result, the truth is, it can be argued that it is acceptable that in the event circumstances change it is also reasonable that people may amend any commitments and obligations? In light of this argument do you still stand by the comment shown in your post and believe that the owners have a moral and ethical duty to complete the stand irrespective of any change in circumstances? I am genuinely interested in how people imagine they would act should they find themselves confronted with this dilemma?
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 08:22:36 am by Melbourne Cobbler »
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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BedsCobb
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What! Who Is!!! We all want to be Liverpool! but we are realistic, while you want to be Cloud Cuckoo Land FC.
This doesn't apply to Posh, Oxford, MK, Cov, Luton Brentford etc etc, so why should we be forced in being perennial bottom feeders 🤣🤣 Now think again whose in cloud cuckoo land🤣🤣
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BedsCobb
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Why doesn’t KT and the Board simply sell off the rights to the land on the proviso that the East Stand is completed and the debts written off . The club could then progress under KT or become a more saleable asset . There must be enough profit in the land to do this surely and it means the club is safeguarded from unscrupulous developers . Am I missing something ?
'Progress under KT' You're joking right? Not one single thing has been done successfully since wooing our easily persuaded fans, when they all signed up to his facebook page... 4 years later.. its poor fare right across the board as far as progress is concerned, unless its these supposedly advance talks with NBC, that no one knows what's involved, if anything?
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CobblerForever
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IMO this debate has taken a bit of an interesting turn of focus. Can I ask a genuine hypothetical question of you Drilling? Imagine you had brought the club, ring fenced 4 million of your own money and expressed an intention to spend it on the East Stand to complete it. Now let’s suppose following the acquisition of the club, as he did, Chris Wilder left? Now lets also imagine the legal wrangles about the land associated with the stand were sorted within 18 months, but during that time the club has suffered 2 straight relegations and went out of the football league? Now in that hypothetical position, would you still spend the 4 million sitting in your bank on the ground of a non league club? If the answer is yes, congratulations you have balls of steel? If the answer is no, then whist I accept this was not the situation, you also should accept that any financial commitment is dependant on the conditions at the time you fulfil that commitment, and that is subjective? Therefore, it could be argued that it is reasonable that the current owners re-evaluated their commitment according to the current circumstances and not those made at the time the acquisition occurred? So as a result, the truth is, it can be argued that it is acceptable that in the event circumstances change it is also reasonable that people may amend any commitments and obligations? In light of this argument do you still stand by the comment shown in your post and believe that the owners have a moral and ethical duty to complete the stand irrespective of any change in circumstances? I am genuinely interested in how people imagine they would act should they find themselves confronted with this dilemma?
This is exactly how most MD/Owners would have approached the situation in my experience. They would have (at best) delayed any further investment.
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« Last Edit: December 14, 2019, 12:57:15 pm by CobblerForever »
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guest3338
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This is exactly how most MD/Owners would have approached the situation in my experience. They would have (at best) delayed any further investment.
Two straight relegations and out the football league? I must have missed the second. Essentially, we are in the same position on the field now as we were when KT/DB took over, so Melbourne's hypothetical question is just that. It's not the club that has changed position its KT.
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Melbourne Cobbler
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Two straight relegations and out the football league? I must have missed the second. Essentially, we are in the same position on the field now as we were when KT/DB took over, so Melbourne's hypothetical question is just that. It's not the club that has changed position its KT.
So essentially you would spend the money CJ? I mean it’s fair comment, and in these circumstances rather than the hypothetical one there is certainly a case to say one should?
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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EB Claret
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This doesn't apply to Posh, Oxford, MK, Cov, Luton Brentford etc etc, so why should we be forced in being perennial bottom feeders 🤣🤣 Now think again whose in cloud cuckoo land🤣🤣
OK, which of those examples should we follow, Coventry? We start by walking away from sixfields and arrange a ground share in a nice big shiny stadium, I think the Ricoh is available every other week!
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BedsCobb
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So essentially you would spend the money CJ? I mean it’s fair comment, and in these circumstances rather than the hypothetical one there is certainly a case to say one should?
Can you differentiate between spending and raising? You seem hell bent on defending an individual's wealth completely ignoring the combined efforts of many individuals... I'm really struggling to see your point of view?
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BedsCobb
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OK, which of those examples should we follow, Coventry? We start by walking away from sixfields and arrange a ground share in a nice big shiny stadium, I think the Ricoh is available every other week!
This just proved what I suspected, Always looking for the very worst comparison and give thanks for extremely small mercies! Really.. Are you a Thomas face friend? 🤣🤣🤣 Give it a rest😂😂😂
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Melbourne Cobbler
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Can you differentiate between spending and raising? You seem hell bent on defending an individual's wealth completely ignoring the combined efforts of many individuals... I'm really struggling to see your point of view?
Spending means you have the capital, raising means you need to get it? Without being sarcastic or engaging in our normal banter I can advise you of another fact. I know you believe you can fund it through operating profit, but that option aside investing 7 or even 6 figures in a business or enterprise raises the pulse considerably, and is an entirely different experience to commenting on here. Trust me, almost without exception in that position individuals are rarely reckless and cavalier and tend to be obsessively cautious in the extreme.
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Not a real supporter but unelected chair of the Northampton Town Honorary Supporters Club. (Please note: any opinions given may not necessarily be shared by proper supporters. In incidents of conflict the views of real supporters shall take precedence).
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singcobb
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This just proved what I suspected, Always looking for the very worst comparison and give thanks for extremely small mercies! Really.. Are you a Thomas face friend? Give it a rest
"Give it a rest" Fine coming from someone without the balls to answer questions to back up his insane rantings. You sir are the ultimate, cowardly keyboard warrior.
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Vintage Cobbler
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I am sure KT must be dancing a jig that MC, supported by a few others, is stating the case for mothballing the East Stand and by extension of the argument anything else with the stadium.
Meanwhile at Cambridge, Luton, Peterborough and already at MK we are surrounded by clubs with more ambitious and wealthy owners. We are at high risk of being a footballing backwater permanently with the cracks in our inadequate infrastructure and nagging questions about our owners’ intentions being papered over by better results on the pitch which undoubtedly diverse attention. As we have seen throughout our L2-L1 yo yo years only temporarily do we play at a higher level and people ask the reasons why.
In this debate we should not lose sight of the fact the land on which the wider development is to take place was public owned land for the benefit of the residents of Northampton and in 2013 NBC allowed the transfer of this land to CDNL for free on the understanding that the football club was to benefit long term from the development gain. Of course, we now know there was skullduggery afoot but that does not change the underlying principles and how any profit from this land should be applied.
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everbrite
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I am sure KT must be dancing a jig that MC, supported by a few others, is stating the case for mothballing the East Stand and by extension of the argument anything else with the stadium.
Meanwhile at Cambridge, Luton, Peterborough and already at MK we are surrounded by clubs with more ambitious and wealthy owners. We are at high risk of being a footballing backwater permanently with the cracks in our inadequate infrastructure and nagging questions about our owners’ intentions being papered over by better results on the pitch which undoubtedly diverse attention. As we have seen throughout our L2-L1 yo yo years only temporarily do we play at a higher level and people ask the reasons why.
In this debate we should not lose sight of the fact the land on which the wider development is to take place was public owned land for the benefit of the residents of Northampton and in 2013 NBC allowed the transfer of this land to CDNL for free on the understanding that the football club was to benefit long term from the development gain. Of course, we now know there was skullduggery afoot but that does not change the underlying principles and how any profit from this land should be applied.
Blimey the royal 'we' in abundance! Not in my name you don't 😇
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2020 Grand National S/S 3rd Place
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Vintage Cobbler
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Everbrite - don't worry about me including you. With your persistent small minded snipes I can assure you no one was farther from my mind at the time of posting. I haven't a clue what you stand for other than pettiness.
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guest48
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What a lot of people seem to forget is that one of the main factors in KT buying NTFC for a minimal amount was on the condition of finishing the East Stand.
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Alfred
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What a lot of people seem to forget is that one of the main factors in KT buying NTFC for a minimal amount was on the condition of finishing the East Stand. Was a time scale attached to this condition ?
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